Volcanic Ash?

Filters would need to have some type of self cleaning mechanism. I guess your assuming oxygen content in the air would be adequate to run the engine.

 

Yes volcanic so to speek. That would be the worst I would guess. And I do assume that the oxygen levels would be high enough to run an internal combustion enegine......

I was thinking of the bed of my truck. Make it a sealed box, one air intake to it. Plumb in intake to motor....

Or in a car, reroute the intake to the cabin, but the cabin in most newer cars has a filter for them also. And you wouldnt want to suck all the air out so that cabin air filter would have to be modified also.

 

If it's got a filter it will get clogged.

 

Think outside the box!!!!!

Yes it will get clogged but what can be done to get you a little farther down the road?

 

Carry extra filters.

 

i would think you could design something with layers of filters that could be removed as each layer filled up and some kind of metal prefilter that could be cleaned with a windshield washer set up. with that much air restriction i would think you would also need an O2 tank to offset that. but would be interesting to see that done. and there is a desert rally race in the middle east i would think you could look that up because they have to filter alot of sand.

 

Now we are talking!!!!! Didnt think about a windshield washer set up. Besides cleaning the winshield all I ever done with them is run the line under the dash to "dispence" certain drink ingrediances..... Or spray the tank full of either and run the line into the intake.....

 

Helos use EAPS in dusty environments to be able to land and take off. If your vehicle could be set up with a dedicated a PTO shaft and you were extremely talented you could rig one up.

google 'engine air particle separator' for lots of info on how they work.


Jack

 

Might Be Possible

How about just leaving the OEM intake alone and running a large diameter snorkel to the front roof of the vehicle sooss you can reach out, up and over and rip off the plugged filture like a dirt racer strips off helmet peel-offs

You could use multiple Filtron Sock type filtures soaked in clean motor oil and stack them several thick. The down side is that you must open the window...the OEM interior filtures do a good job of filturing out stuff and hi effeciciency filtures are availalble.

We run HEPA filtures in our two SUVs. Expensive, but stops the allergeries. No coffee yet and my typing sucks right now. HB of CJ (old coot)

 

I would expect that a liquid pre-filter would remove the vast majority of the particulate material likely to clog up your regular filter. Your engine would basically be breathing through a bong.

 

Something like the "car bong" is a good idea as is all. The idea I am leaning towards is to try to keep you from getting in and out so much to deal with it and letting in ash to the cab.

 

I used a similar gas meter in college to measure the particulate ash and the sulfur (SO2 & H2S), CO2, and CO content. I was just the paid lab tech at the time, but I recall the machine was called an osberg.

The gas was bubbled through three containers, each dissolving a different gas.

If you drive through a volcanic ash cloud, you are going to need to remove the poisonous gases as well as the ash.

 

Cleatis how you been. I have been working on some setups for my stuff. Some may laugh I don't really care as I'm a redneck that builds things from junk. I do hardwood floors and realized how good cyclonic seperaters work for dust. So I started collecting old bagless vacuum cleaners for the cyclonic cartriges. Like a prefilter they will seperate the ash from air before it reaches the filter. I have expereimented a little I seems to work and very cheap. Bigger engines will require more that one.

 

HUMMMMM,, now your thinking......

 

Cabin air filters or Motor air filters? Are you trying to filter your own breathing air or your motors air? My SRT-8 already has both. Many people don't know (on some cars) that their car already has a cabin air filter.

Just carry a spare of each. If your worried about air in your vehicle you can attach a fast flowing Hepa filter to your blower or air intake. You can also tape P100 masks to your cabin air vents and keep the air on recirculate. That would minimize the air exchanges within the vehicle while repeatedly re-filtering the air.

Did you just watch Dante's peak?:

 

No I mwas talking about both. If you reran the engine air intake into the cabin then you may have an issue with the cabin filter.

The p100 idea I like that.
One of my brother lost a semi in MSH and the idea has been in the back of my mind for years and someone touched on it and got me to thinking.

Never seen Dante's Peak. Should I?

 

I would run the air intake through a tank of water first. You would need a check valve so as to make sure no water comes through the intake to your engine. You would just need to empty the water tank and fill it back up with new water to clean it.

We had a big problem with this when Mt St Helens blew. Another problem was just seeing out the windshield.

 

Maybe a series of cyclones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclonic_separation

 

I would want a way of cleaning the filter while in the vehicle so it has me thinking of routing something to the interior like a pull cord or switch that powers a vacuum to the intake side of the filter. Granted the vacuum will eventually fill up too but I would think something along these lines would get you further down the road.

Heck how about dropping the vacuum bag alltogether this way you can just blow the ash right to the ground.

 

I would want a way of cleaning the filter while in the vehicle so it has me thinking of routing something to the interior like a pull cord or switch that powers a vacuum to the intake side of the filter. Granted the vacuum will eventually fill up too but I would think something along these lines would get you further down the road.

I've cleaned many air filters with a vacuum. It's very effective. In all reality it might be easier just to have a few spares that you can wash out with water. The other option is a larger pre filter. Mount St. Helens had 3-5 inches of ash and many cars that needed their filters changed to run again. Or you could do what the troopers did. :

 

Volcanic ash is very fine and will clog a filter quickly. Adding any liquid to it will turn it into a sloppy mushy goo. Look at the videos of drivers trying to clean thier windshields. Your best kind of filter would be a multiple bag filter with a shaker. As the filter gets clogged, you shake the ash out by moving a lever back and forth several times. The one problem is that this type of filter tends to be on the large side.

 

You best bet would still be to move the filter inside the vehicle, cabin filters for newer vehicle are only for the heating/cooling system. It won't get clogged if you don't use the air. How vehicle get air into a vehicle is through vents they are the same vents that are used when an air pressure change occurs such as closing the door. The vents are usually hidden in some unseen location like in a quarter panel in the rear. So the ash would have to get sucked a long distance for it to effect the air filter for the vehicle if the intake is inside the cabin.

 

This is good up until a point and it depends of the vehicle. The police in that picture were tapping inside air but many modern vehicles are more air tight and the vents can be smaller then the CFM of your engine. Many vehicle air blowers are only 200-400 CFM and I've seen vents that have a hard time flowing 200 CFM. A big 650-800 CFM V8 is going to instantly have a HP decrease with the added tubing and if the vents are small it will have a hard time at higher RPM's and will have limited HP.

 

I liked the idea of using the bed of the truck as a "barrier zone" to take stress off the filters.

More surface area = less air transfer in any one place will help keep ash from clogging it.

My idea is using something like this.



Maybe make a series of holes along the sides and cover the whole thing with a sheet or other fabric; just turn the whole thing into a giant filter that will have a lot of surface area and will allow the maximum ease of airflow for the longest time between stops.

If you had one of these it would be easy. Just run a drier hose or w/e from the intake to the "mega filter"

Putting the intakes along the side help keep dust from drowning the filter outright.

Perhaps only use the outside facing area so you can easily access it.

Not sure what would be the best filter option for it though...

I think a sheet or cloth would be a good first layer. Easy to switch out or possibly clean. Just have it wrapped around the intake area.

Maybe cut sized opening along the side and set a series of air-filters as the intake holes Adding another layer..

If you can't get out of dodge like that...then you better get a car that runs off love instead of combustion.

 

I will have to check it out. Thanks..

 

Up here in Alaska when a volcano blows we use panty hose over the air filter as a pre filter. Its knocks the large particles out, still have to blow out or change your filter often. Ash is so hard on everything its best to avoid driving in it if you can. I've seen many windshields destroyed by folks using their wipers to remove ash, might as well be using a sand blaster!

 

Why not just have a scuba tank full of air hook into the air intake that way if it clogs up or the air is thinner (high in the mountains) you can turn it on and increase your power its about air fuel spark the right mix is better for power. To much air you put along add more fuel add more air you get allot more power.

Goto youtube and watch the video were they use a leaf blower to incress horsepower on a dyno and it incressed it allot.

 

Scuba tanks hold about 80 cu ft of air and V8's can pull 500-800cfm. Meaning the tank would empty in 10's of seconds.

For a hobby and drag racing I started building Electric superchargers about 25 years ago. The market and technology is just about right for them but you really don't get much advantage over an exhaust driven turbo or belt driven supercharger. Unfortunately you'll only get roughly 5-7HP gain for every HP you stuff into an engine. This depends of the impeller and drive motor efficiency and a bunch of other factors. One leaf blower at 1500 watts is only going to give 6-12hp of gain minus the energy to drive it. You'll only get about a .5 psi increase in pressure.

Mine are a little different. 20-50hp Brushless motor driven by expensive lifepo4 batteries. The brushless motor drives a turbocharger directly. The idea is to bypass the turbo completely unless you need the extra power. Once you get into the 5-7 psi of boost range you'll need an intercooler as the compressed air needs to be cooled again for max gains.

 

Excellent Answers Already Given And Thank You

I think I meant to say the Filtron sock type filtures are soaked in clean oil, then squeezed almost dry. No oil gets sucked thru into the mill. We stacked huge Filtrons several deep on very large excavators when in extremely dusty conditions with no water trucks available. Worked ok. When the engines began to run bad, we stopped, pulled off the outer sock and continued on moving dirt. The cabs had huge filtures also.

Very good point about thick heavy volcano ash on the windshield. How do you remove it? Can you? Do you want to add water or NEVER? Is the best way just to stop, get out and remove the thick ash with a squiggie? Can you squiggie from inside the car? Anyway you do it, your glass is going to be toast which is a given. Do you wear gas masks inside the car? HB of CJ (old coot)

 

I think I meant to say the Filtron sock type filtures are soaked in clean oil, then squeezed almost dry. No oil gets sucked thru into the mill. We stacked huge Filtrons several deep on very large excavators when in extremely dusty conditions with no water trucks available. Worked ok. When the engines began to run bad, we stopped, pulled off the outer sock and continued on moving dirt. The cabs had huge filtures also.

Very good point about thick heavy volcano ash on the windshield. How do you remove it? Can you? Do you want to add water or NEVER? Is the best way just to stop, get out and remove the thick ash with a squiggie? Can you squiggie from inside the car? Anyway you do it, your glass is going to be toast which is a given. Do you wear gas masks inside the car? HB of CJ (old coot)

Regarding ash on the windshield.
Pretty common to see buses and trucks in the Middle East and Africa equipped with socks covering their windshield wiper blades. Since there is little to no rain wipers are used to clear dirt / sand off the windshield.

Examples:

You could put a tube sock over your wiper blades.

 

Here is an idea, if you are skilled at sheet metal or plastic fabrication you might make it work.
You will need to use a HEPA filter to filter out the fine ash, HEPA filter raw can be purchased in rolls. if you had a roll of it you could rig it in a container in the same manner as 35mm film is configured in the camera.
then the filter material could be advanced over the air intake when it became clogged.
It would not even have to be a perfect air tight fit since your primary concern would be to get out of the area, a small amount of ash getting past the HEPA may not cause too much of a problem.
Its an interesting problem
Alan

 

That's an incredibly good idea if used with central air for home or business cooling and heating. Market it as the 10-40 year automated HEPA air filter. Instead of changing the filter every 3 months the roll just advances 20" every 90 days. 40 years would be 267 feet of material.

Update: It's already in use:

http://www.archiexpo.com/prod/trox/air-filters-62712-216966.html

 

Filters and ash

When Mt St Helens went off it was total darkness in Spokane Wa. What do you think a filter will do for you. You can hardly breathe to take the old one off and install a new. Ash is mostly the constistency of white to wheat flour. The state police got by why don't you call them and ask for help.

 

When Mt St Helens went off it was total darkness in Spokane Wa. What do you think a filter will do for you. You can hardly breathe to take the old one off and install a new. Ash is mostly the constistency of white to wheat flour. The state police got by why don't you call them and ask for help.

The state police ended up using large air filters and pantyhose as pre-filters changed every shift. On page one of this thread I posted a picture of the police using large air hoses routed to the inside of their patrol cars.

 

I realize now just how poorly thought out my original explanation of my idea was and edited it.

Any thoughts?

PS It's at the top of the page

 

WTF???

You don't DRIVE during a volcanic ashfall - unless you're a Cop or emergency vehicle.
Once the ash quits falling, usually all you have to do is pull the car's air cleaner and
bang it out once in a while (if that...). Getting a high filtration air filter might be
a good idea but it'll just clog faster and the regular ones will take out anything
really damaging anyway, plus as soon as they start plugging they get *better*
at filtering (for a while, at least).

But I'm just talking about what you'll pick up AFTER the ashfall when you venture out,
from ash blowing around

As somebody else said, ash getting into moving parts (such as the windshield wipers)
is a bigger problem than it getting sucked into the engine through the intake....

The most effective air filters are... heh... heh... heh... the old OILBATH ones with the
steel mesh in them. I doubt if you can even get them any more, except as antique
auto parts, and then only to fit older American cars & trucks. (get ready to spend
plenty)

Is anybody REALLY worried about freaking Volcanic Ash?

 

WTF???

Is anybody REALLY worried about freaking Volcanic Ash?

I'm not but it did crap up a good part of the US 30 years ago and the blast was said to be 400 Megatons making Hiroshima look tiny in comparison.

It was also a very tiny eruption. See the smallest dot on this wiki chart.

Also if you had 5 in the last 200 years then how many will happen in the future? Mt Saint was the smallest of the 5.