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Discussion Starter #1
hi all, there is a BLM campground near me that is very pretty and cheap to camp at. The only water source is a creek that runs through it. All throughout the campground are signs that say it is not recommended for children to camp there as it is located on an old asbestos mine. The park ranger said it is okay to drink the water out of the creek, but I always filter water from anywhere before I drink it anyways. I was just wondering what you all think, is there any concern that there could still be asbestos in the creek? Is there anything that would filter out asbestos? Just curious what others opinions are on this. So far I have just been bringing my own water from home, but for long camping trips that is a lot of trouble. I do know that the asbestos could be in the soil around as well, but I don't know why the thought of drinking it just bothers me.
 

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Hunter/Survivor
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Im no expert but I would assume that any asbestos would sink into the silt of the creek but I wouldn't mess with that water.... personally, I don't know why BLM doesn't seal that mine shaft opening so there can be no disruption of the asbestos.
I camp on the eastern sierras side and there are a lot of mines but I have not seen Asbestos signs, which is a good thing....
 

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Curmudgeon
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Asbestos is really only a danger when its been molested and is an airborne dust. If pieces are large enough to see, they probably won't murder you in your sleep. Having said that, it only takes one eeinie little tiny particle breathed into your lungs to kill you. It might take 100 years, but you're doomed.

And by my understanding of asbestos, ingesting some (wether eaten or drunk) will not hurt you. Its the lungs.
 

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reluctant sinner
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You would not want to be insulating ship boilers by hand in confined spaces with loose asbestos. Same for dry drilling rock with an air hammer drill at the face of a small mine tunnel.

Places where they removed the asbestos from pipes had way higher counts after removal for years than before.
 

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Beer Truck Door Gunner
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Sedimentation filtering would solve any drinking water issue for asbestos. A Sawyer would do that.
 
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Discussion Starter #8

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Curmudgeon
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Perhaps you're trying to be snarky but that is total nonsense.

High concentrations inhaled CAN/MAY cause asbestosis. ONE particle? NO
Kind of snarky, but very serious. Each persons body reacts to contaminants differently. Asbestos in the lungs cannot be expelled. What asbestos does is cause scar tissue to form on the walls of your lungs. How much and how fast that happens depends on exposure, metabolism and time.

One teenie weenie little particle, in your lungs, stays there forever. It begins causing damage immediately and continues until you die. If you get hit by a car, jump off a bridge, or get shot by a jealous teenage husband, then you don't die from asbestosis. If you were exposed to asbestos when you were 18 and live to be a hundred, that one teenie weenie little particle has been working steadily to reduce your ability to process O2. Given enough time, it will kill you.

But something else will probably kill you first.
 

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Shill for the Federal Gov
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Kind of snarky, but very serious. Each persons body reacts to contaminants differently. Asbestos in the lungs cannot be expelled. What asbestos does is cause scar tissue to form on the walls of your lungs. How much and how fast that happens depends on exposure, metabolism and time.

One teenie weenie little particle, in your lungs, stays there forever. It begins causing damage immediately and continues until you die. If you get hit by a car, jump off a bridge, or get shot by a jealous teenage husband, then you don't die from asbestosis. If you were exposed to asbestos when you were 18 and live to be a hundred, that one teenie weenie little particle has been working steadily to reduce your ability to process O2. Given enough time, it will kill you.

But something else will probably kill you first.
Full on effin right!

Who cares if you're 45-50-60

You better care big time if you're 18-20-25-30.....It will take 20-30 years, but you will barf up a lung. If you got a kid, get the eff outta there
 

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the uk standard base line of asbestos fibres in the air is 10 per 15m3, i have no idea what that is in imperial. thats a natural occuring product and or fall out from buildings and wind blow fibres, theres no where anywhere is asbestos free its physically impossible to be so.

if theres a mine then theres a mine spoil heap, considering at bestthey would have been 75% efficienton theirold mine ways, that means for every four tons of asbestos produced theres one sat in the in the waste pile outside the mine, the top crust is going to have the wind and rain wash awaythe loose stuff, but every foot step you take or land slipor deer foot print is going to release more fibres
 

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Jus' a bear
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And by my understanding of asbestos, ingesting some (wether eaten or drunk) will not hurt you. Its the lungs.
Swallowing asbestos causes other issues, such as gastrointestinal cancers.

That's why regulations prevent eating/drinking/chewing during abatement, aside from having to remove your mask in containment to do so.
 

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Curmudgeon
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Swallowing asbestos causes other issues, such as gastrointestinal cancers.

That's why regulations prevent eating/drinking/chewing during abatement, aside from having to remove your mask in containment to do so.
At the time I went through abatement training, (@ 1992), no imperial evidence had been presented to show ingested asbestos did any more than pass through the digestive tract.

It doesn't surprise me to find out differently. Truth about asbestos has been very slow in coming.
 

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Dog Lives Matter
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Asbestos is really only a danger when its been molested and is an airborne dust. If pieces are large enough to see, they probably won't murder you in your sleep. Having said that, it only takes one eeinie little tiny particle breathed into your lungs to kill you. It might take 100 years, but you're doomed.

And by my understanding of asbestos, ingesting some (wether eaten or drunk) will not hurt you. Its the lungs.
Actually, drinking asbestos in water causes stomach cancer and possibly colon cancer. When I lived in Minnesota there was a report that said Duluth had the highest rate of stomach cancer in the USA. The investigation targeted Lake Superior, where Duluth gets their drinking water. Apparently, decades ago tailings from the iron mines were dumped into the lake. The tailings were rich in asbestos.

I would filter any water that might contain asbestos.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I contacted several of the water filter companies and they said that their water filters do not filter out asbestos.
 

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Curmudgeon
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I contacted several of the water filter companies and they said that their water filters do not filter out asbestos.
I don't know why they would say that, unless they have never specifically checked their filters for asbestos.

Attached is a chart showing the relative size of particles of different materials. As you can see, particle size is comparable to other contaminants that do get filtered out. Might be a CYA thing.


The size of contaminants and particles are usually described in microns, a metric unit of measure where

one micron is one-millionth of a metre
1 micron = 10-6 m
In imperial units

1 inch = 25400 microns
1 micron = 1 / 25400 inch
The eye can in general see particles larger than 40 microns.

Typical size of contaminants and particles:

Particle Particle Size
(microns)
Anthrax 1 - 5
Antiperspirant 6 - 10
Asbestos 0.7 - 90
Atmospheric Dust 0.001 - 40
Auto and Car Emission 1 - 150
Bacteria 0.3 - 60
Beach Sand 100 - 10000
Bone Dust 3 - 300
Bromine 0.1 - 0.7
Burning Wood 0.2 - 3
Calcium Zinc Dust 0.7 - 20
Carbon Black Dust 0.2 - 10
Carbon Dioxide 0.00065
Cayenne Pepper 15 - 1000
Cement Dust 3 - 100
Clay, coarse 2 - 4
Clay, medium 1 - 2
Clay, fine 0.5 - 1
Coal Dust 1 - 100
Coal Flue Gas 0.08 - 0.2
Coffee 5 - 400
Combustion 0.01 - 0.1
Combustion-related - motor vehicles, wood burning,
open burning, industrial processes up to 2.5
Copier Toner 0.5 - 15
Corn Starch 0.1 - 0.8
Dot (.) 615
Dust Mites 100 - 300
Eye of a Needle 1230
Face Powder 0.1 - 30
Fertilizer 10 - 1000
Fiberglass Insulation 1 - 1000
Fly Ash 1 - 1000
Gelatin 5 - 90
Ginger 25 - 40
Glass Wool 1000
Grain Dusts 5 - 1000
Gravel, very fine (0.08 inch) 2000
Gravel, fine (0.16 inch) 4000
Gravel, medium (0.3 inch) 8000
Gravel, coarse (0.6 - 1.3 inches) 15000 - 30000
Gravel, very coarse (1.3 - 2.5 inches) 30000 - 65000
Ground Limestone 10 - 1000
Hair 5 - 200
Household dust 0.05 - 100
Human Hair 40 - 300
Human Sneeze 10 - 100
Humidifier 0.9 - 3
Insecticide Dusts 0.5 - 10
Iron Dust 4 - 20
Lead, solder radiator manufacturing - mean value 1.3
Lead, battery and lead powder manufacturing 12 - 22
Lead Dust 0.1 - 0.7
Liquid Droplets 0.5 - 5
Metallurgical Dust 0.1 - 1000
Metallurgical Fumes 0.1 - 1000
Milled Flour, Milled Corn 1 - 100
Mist 70 - 350
Mold 3 - 12
Mold Spores 10 - 30
Mustard 6 - 10
Oil Smoke 0.03 - 1
One inch 25400
Oxygen 0.0005
Paint Pigments 0.1 - 5
Pesticides & Herbicides 0.001
Pet Dander 0.5 - 100
Pollen 10 - 1000
Radioactive Fallout 0.1 - 10
Red Blood Cells 5 - 10
Rosin Smoke 0.01 - 1
Sand, very fine (0.0025 inch) 62
Sand, fine (0.005 inch) 125
Sand, medium (0.01 inch) 250
Sand, coarse (0.02 inch) 500
Sand, very coarse (0.02 inch) 500
Saw Dust 30 - 600
Sea Salt 0.035 - 0.5
Silt, coarse (0.0015) 37
Silt, medium (0.0006 - 0.0012 inche) 16 - 30
Silt, fine 8 - 13
Silt, very fine 4 - 8
Skin flakes 0.5 - 10
Smoke from Natural Materials 0.01 - 0.1
Smoke from Synthetic Materials 1 - 50
Smoldering or Flaming Cooking Oil 0.03 - 0.9
Spanish Moss Pollen 150 - 750
Spider web 2 - 3
Spores from plants 3 - 100
Starches 3 - 100
Sugars 0.0008 - 0.005
Talcum Dust 0.5 - 50
Tea Dust 8 - 300
Textile Dust 6 - 20
Textile Fibers 10 - 1000
Tobacco Smoke 0.01 - 4
Typical Atmospheric Dust 0.001 to 30
Viruses 0.005 - 0.3
Yeast Cells 1 - 50
one micron is one-millionth of a metre
1 micron = 10-6 m
1 micron = 1000 nano metre
Airborne particles
Airborne particles are solids suspended in the air.

Larger particles - larger then 100 μm
terminal velocities > 0.5 m/s
fall out quickly
includes hail, snow, insect debris, room dust, soot aggregates, coarse sand, gravel, and sea spray
Medium-size particles - in the range 1 to 100 μm
sedimentation velocities greater than 0.2 m/s
settles out slowly
includes fine ice crystals, pollen, hair, large bacteria, windblown dust, fly ash, coal dust, silt, fine sand, and small dust
Small particles - less than 1 μm
falls slowly, take days to years to settle out of a quiet atmosphere. In a turbulent atmosphere they may never settle out
can be washed out by water or rain
includes viruses, small bacteria, metallurgical fumes, soot, oil smoke, tobacco smoke, clay, and fumes
Hazardous Dust Particles
Smaller dust particles can be hazardous for humans. In many jurisdictions dust fractions at specified particle sizes in working environments are required to be measured.

Inhalable Dust
Airborne particles which can enter the nose and mouth during normal breathing. Particles of 100 microns diameter or less.

Thoracic Dust
Particles that will pass through the nose and throat, reaching the lungs. Particles of 10 microns diameter and less. Referred to as PM10 in the USA.

Respirable Dust
Particles that will penetrate into the gas exchange region of the lungs. A hazardous particulate size less than 5 microns. Particle sizes of 2.5 micron (PM2.5) are often used in USA.

The total allowable particle concentration - building materials, combustion products, mineral fibers and synthetic fibers (particles less than 10 μm) - specified by EPA (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency)

50 μg/m3 (0.000022 grain/ft3) - allowable exposure per day over the course of 1 year
150 μg/m3 (0.000022 grain/ft3) - allowable exposure over 24 hours
 

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the ca. state rock is serpentine. used in alot of gravel driveways in the past. if you are alive, you have breathed it in at 1 time or another. i did abatement for awhile and wouldnt wish that job on anyone.
 

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Curmudgeon
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Actually, drinking asbestos in water causes stomach cancer and possibly colon cancer. When I lived in Minnesota there was a report that said Duluth had the highest rate of stomach cancer in the USA. The investigation targeted Lake Superior, where Duluth gets their drinking water. Apparently, decades ago tailings from the iron mines were dumped into the lake. The tailings were rich in asbestos.

I would filter any water that might contain asbestos.
That appears to be correct. Picked this up from the National Library of Medicine;


Expert Rev Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2017 May;11(5):419-425. doi: 10.1080/17474124.2017.1300528. Epub 2017 Mar 6.
Asbestos ingestion and gastrointestinal cancer: a possible underestimated hazard.

Di Ciaula A1,2.
Author information
Abstract
The presence of asbestos fibres (AFs) in drinking water could be linked with gastrointestinal cancers. However, it is not regulated in several countries due to conflicting evidence. Areas covered: Some reports mainly associated AF ingestion with gastric and colorectal cancer. Experimental evidence suggested a role for timing and extent of exposure, and showed that ingested AFs induce toxic effects on the stomach, ileum and colon, histological alterations and negative effects at a molecular level, cross the placenta and enter foetal organs (including the liver), and seem able to act as a co-carcinogen agent. Occupational studies suggest associations between asbestos exposure and intrahepatic cholangiocarcinoma, and observations exist indicating the possibility that AFs could enter the liver and bile through enteric absorption. Expert commentary: A risk threshold (AF concentration in drinking water) for digestive cancers has not been convincingly identified so far and regulations, where adopted, have weak scientific basis and may not be adequate. With further and more definitive studies, evidence might become sufficient to justify monitoring plans, persuade countries with no current limits to set a maximum level of AFs in drinking water and might induce a revision of the existing legislations, pointing to efficient primary prevention policies.

I highlighted in red an interesting sentence. My Father, a Retired Boilermaker, died as a result of complications from mesothelioma. My Mother, passed from Bile duct cancer. While her only exposure would have been through his clothes, it is starting to appear that I lost both of my Parents to asbestosis.
 
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