Alright, so I have heard it said from many sources that arrows will penetrate most body armor. Any one out there have studies, videos, or personal experience (ever tried it?) with this? Just curious. One of those rumors I'd like to confirm....
MaskedLady
masked lady i have a good link if you would like it pm me ( the armor ive seen tested is bear proof armor and it can withstand almost anything including arrows bullets car hits everything.) its kinda chunky im gonna go find it again. tell me if your interested.
Arrows will sail right through kevlar and any other ballistic fiber armor.
Ballistic woven armor relies of multiple layers of high tensile strength weave to blunt and disperse the inertial forces that would otherwise carry a bullet into the wearer.
An arrow cuts right through it. There are stab resistant vest such as used in prisons that might slow or stop an arrow but kevlar will not.
SAPI plates will.
Ballistic woven armor relies of multiple layers of high tensile strength weave to blunt and disperse the inertial forces that would otherwise carry a bullet into the wearer.
An arrow cuts right through it. There are stab resistant vest such as used in prisons that might slow or stop an arrow but kevlar will not.
SAPI plates will.
heres one of the videos of this guy thats my hero.
in another video he used arrows and other lethal weapons against it.. nothing its awesome.
This is not very hard to defeat
Its just like when the Germans brought out the Maxmillian armor in the late 1500s. All it took was to get em on the ground and then shove a dagger either in there crotch from underneith or there armpit . Not hard for a simple peasant while they were on there back. Hence the armor was then null and void. Its with anything once you make something to protect,someone makes something to defeat it. Thats the history of the human race.
1st you must remember how they cut Kevlar to make a vest they cut the material with a reciprocating knife and sew it together. A knife ,icepick or arrow will cut through a vest with no problem.
In the UK a few years ago they had a problem with their Bobbies getting stabbed so they put a layer of chain mall in with the Kevlar problem solved. I don't think it would stop an arrow, it has too much energy and a sharp broad head.
In the UK a few years ago they had a problem with their Bobbies getting stabbed so they put a layer of chain mall in with the Kevlar problem solved. I don't think it would stop an arrow, it has too much energy and a sharp broad head.
I did some reading and answers to this question are all over the place. I could not find any verifiable scientific tests and only found one forum that posted some picture results from testing its members did. I included the pictures although I could only get one set to download. After looking at all of this I would say there is a good chance a vest would stop an arrow however it is not designed to do so and some will penetrate especially with a high quality broadhead, i.e. don’t bet your life on it.
Certainly not definitive results but better than pure Internet rumor or speculation.
Here is a post concerning arrows vs. Kevlar by Beastmaster from the ArcheryTalk Forum
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAX
Two years ago, after our swat team encountered a subject armed with a crossbow, they asked me to do some testing. I used a vest issued to me in 1991 and shot it with Muzzy's, Stinger Buzzcuts, and Montecs from my 72lb Mathews Drenalin with Axis 377 Grain arrows. The Buzzcut got the very tip thru the vest, but it wouldn't have caused a scratch on the wearer. The Muzzy and Montec barely made a scratch on the vest. No trauma plate involved here, just the kevlar vest. I was suprised as I assumed the arrows would blow right thru, but they just didn't. This was only a level IIA vest as well.
Issue here is the number of layers. And, was the ballistic panel stretched out to be similar to one worn on a body? That has a huge difference on the performance results on both the depth of entry and the actual protection provided. That's why the NIJ for it's test uses some sort of clay or other backing with the panel stretched out and affixed around the backing material.
Also - Soft Body Armor back in 1991 had way more layers than it does now.
I'll pick on my old Level II body armor. It had 25 layers of Kevlar and was pretty thick. This body armor was also issued in 1991. IIRC, Body armor issued in late 1999/early 2000 was around 20 layers of Kevlar/SpectraShield or some other aramid. My most current body armor (Level IIIA) has about 20 layers of of Dyneema and Twaron mix, is slightly thinner (about 8 millimeters thick), but has far better protection than what I had before.
More layers for low and slow stuff like our arrows means a greater chance of stopping it. Even if it's cutting it's way in, each layer getting cut means that it's a layer that's slowing the arrow down.
Another forum that I frequent asked this same question enough to where I contacted (earlier this year) Second Chance (well, Safariland) and Point Blank.
Neither company would guarantee protection from a fixed bladed, cut on contact broadhead shot out of a modern compound bow. I do suspect, however, that they won't guarantee protection out of liability reasons more than anything else.
-Steve
Here are couple of posts concerning arrows vs. Kevlar by JD X729 from the ArcheryTalk Forum
I did a test.
________________________________________
I just tested my field points and Grim Reaper Hades fixed blade broadheads on a Type IIA vest. The first field point I shoot bounced off back towards me and landed 5 yards away from the vest. The second field point I shoot bounced off back towards me and landed 8 yards away from the vest. The Hades broadhead punched through the vest and penetrated 3.5 inches into my Morel broadhead target I was using as a backstop.
The tests were done using a Bowtech Admiral @ 61 lbs with Carbon Express Aramid KV 350s with 100 grain tips with a total weight 430 grains at 10 yards. Last time I chroned these arrows I got around 270 fps.
Pics to follow later tonight or tomorrow, gotta run now.
I shot it with 9mm, .357 Mag and .38 handgun rounds. As well as a 12 gauge 1 ounce slug and a 7mm-08.
It was only a .17 HMR not a .17 Remington that I shot at it, had a brain fart there for a minute.
The vest stopped everything but the 7mm-08 and the .17 HMR, defiantly wouldn't want to get hit with the slug, punched about 3/4 of the vest through my 3/8 plywood target backer.
It blew about a 3 inch hole in the plywood.
The slug by itself would probably do less damage passing through if it didn't hit any bone than all the extra surface the vest adds causing there to be a lot of broken ribs and punctured organs, OUCH.
Didn't even bother trying the 7mm or 300 Rem Magnums, it was obvious what would happen.
I am going to try a .44 Mag next through the pistol and rifle. I'm sure the pistol will get stopped, the rifle I'm not sure whats going to happen.
Ok, here are a couple of pics.
As you will see its been shot up pretty good with firearms first. Did that when I was hunting during rifle season, some buddies wanted to see what would happen. Had a couple of extra and older vests so I figured what the heck, that and I wanted to try it my self.
First pic, after being shoot with 2 field points that bounced off and one broadhead that punched through. I shot the vest when it was dark out and didn't have a peep on the string so the arrows didn't hit exactly where I wanted them to soooo .
Second pic, shows where the 2 field points hit, between the .357 mag and .38, and where the 3 blade Hades broadhead went through.
You can also see where all the firearm rounds impacted, I tried to spread out the rounds. Rifle rounds at 100 yards, 7mm-08 just had a new scope put on it and was just bore sighted. Pistol and shotgun at 50 yards. Didn't want to get any closer I had a close call when I shot Ballistic sheetrock / wallboard last year, had some fragments come back at me , didn't want to push my luck again.
The vest held up pretty good considering they are not designed to take multiple shots.
Certainly not definitive results but better than pure Internet rumor or speculation.
Here is a post concerning arrows vs. Kevlar by Beastmaster from the ArcheryTalk Forum
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAX
Two years ago, after our swat team encountered a subject armed with a crossbow, they asked me to do some testing. I used a vest issued to me in 1991 and shot it with Muzzy's, Stinger Buzzcuts, and Montecs from my 72lb Mathews Drenalin with Axis 377 Grain arrows. The Buzzcut got the very tip thru the vest, but it wouldn't have caused a scratch on the wearer. The Muzzy and Montec barely made a scratch on the vest. No trauma plate involved here, just the kevlar vest. I was suprised as I assumed the arrows would blow right thru, but they just didn't. This was only a level IIA vest as well.
Issue here is the number of layers. And, was the ballistic panel stretched out to be similar to one worn on a body? That has a huge difference on the performance results on both the depth of entry and the actual protection provided. That's why the NIJ for it's test uses some sort of clay or other backing with the panel stretched out and affixed around the backing material.
Also - Soft Body Armor back in 1991 had way more layers than it does now.
I'll pick on my old Level II body armor. It had 25 layers of Kevlar and was pretty thick. This body armor was also issued in 1991. IIRC, Body armor issued in late 1999/early 2000 was around 20 layers of Kevlar/SpectraShield or some other aramid. My most current body armor (Level IIIA) has about 20 layers of of Dyneema and Twaron mix, is slightly thinner (about 8 millimeters thick), but has far better protection than what I had before.
More layers for low and slow stuff like our arrows means a greater chance of stopping it. Even if it's cutting it's way in, each layer getting cut means that it's a layer that's slowing the arrow down.
Another forum that I frequent asked this same question enough to where I contacted (earlier this year) Second Chance (well, Safariland) and Point Blank.
Neither company would guarantee protection from a fixed bladed, cut on contact broadhead shot out of a modern compound bow. I do suspect, however, that they won't guarantee protection out of liability reasons more than anything else.
-Steve
Here are couple of posts concerning arrows vs. Kevlar by JD X729 from the ArcheryTalk Forum
I did a test.
________________________________________
I just tested my field points and Grim Reaper Hades fixed blade broadheads on a Type IIA vest. The first field point I shoot bounced off back towards me and landed 5 yards away from the vest. The second field point I shoot bounced off back towards me and landed 8 yards away from the vest. The Hades broadhead punched through the vest and penetrated 3.5 inches into my Morel broadhead target I was using as a backstop.
The tests were done using a Bowtech Admiral @ 61 lbs with Carbon Express Aramid KV 350s with 100 grain tips with a total weight 430 grains at 10 yards. Last time I chroned these arrows I got around 270 fps.
Pics to follow later tonight or tomorrow, gotta run now.
I shot it with 9mm, .357 Mag and .38 handgun rounds. As well as a 12 gauge 1 ounce slug and a 7mm-08.
It was only a .17 HMR not a .17 Remington that I shot at it, had a brain fart there for a minute.
The vest stopped everything but the 7mm-08 and the .17 HMR, defiantly wouldn't want to get hit with the slug, punched about 3/4 of the vest through my 3/8 plywood target backer.
It blew about a 3 inch hole in the plywood.
The slug by itself would probably do less damage passing through if it didn't hit any bone than all the extra surface the vest adds causing there to be a lot of broken ribs and punctured organs, OUCH.
Didn't even bother trying the 7mm or 300 Rem Magnums, it was obvious what would happen.
I am going to try a .44 Mag next through the pistol and rifle. I'm sure the pistol will get stopped, the rifle I'm not sure whats going to happen.
Ok, here are a couple of pics.
As you will see its been shot up pretty good with firearms first. Did that when I was hunting during rifle season, some buddies wanted to see what would happen. Had a couple of extra and older vests so I figured what the heck, that and I wanted to try it my self.
First pic, after being shoot with 2 field points that bounced off and one broadhead that punched through. I shot the vest when it was dark out and didn't have a peep on the string so the arrows didn't hit exactly where I wanted them to soooo .
Second pic, shows where the 2 field points hit, between the .357 mag and .38, and where the 3 blade Hades broadhead went through.
You can also see where all the firearm rounds impacted, I tried to spread out the rounds. Rifle rounds at 100 yards, 7mm-08 just had a new scope put on it and was just bore sighted. Pistol and shotgun at 50 yards. Didn't want to get any closer I had a close call when I shot Ballistic sheetrock / wallboard last year, had some fragments come back at me , didn't want to push my luck again.
The vest held up pretty good considering they are not designed to take multiple shots.
Attachments
even if they have a vest on that your arrow cant go through if you aim for the armpit youl get lungs and heart as vest doest cover there
You being prudent shoot the bad guy in the pelvis and they bleed out and you get either charged by the police or sued by the family or both
Not quite sure I read you seekher we are talking about alternatives to shooting someone in the bulletproof vest region which would normally kill them you would get sued by the family/charged by the police if you shot someone in the chest too. Besides if you aren't trying to kill someone don't use a gun try pepper spray, or a taser or something.
Not quite sure I read you seekher we are talking about alternatives to shooting someone in the bulletproof vest region which would normally kill them you would get sued by the family/charged by the police if you shot someone in the chest too. Besides if you aren't trying to kill someone don't use a gun try pepper spray, or a taser or something.
Yes it will, kevlar is not designed to stop arrows. Even low-poundage bows will penetrate.
With bodkin heads and needle-points it's almost staggering.
HOWEVER, the arrowheads cost an arm and a leg to buy commercially.
$25-$50 per arrow-head.
The best way is to forge your own and heat treat it over a fire...
With bodkin heads and needle-points it's almost staggering.
HOWEVER, the arrowheads cost an arm and a leg to buy commercially.
$25-$50 per arrow-head.
The best way is to forge your own and heat treat it over a fire...
Keep in mind that bullets are soft by design. They intentionally spread out to maximize tissue damage with lead cores. Armor piercing bullets (steel), work just like (steel) arrow tips, they resist disfigurement to maximize penetration. Kevlar (soft) armor relies on many layers to disfigure a lead core bullet enough for one of the layers to stop it.
Old fashioned armor simply was not strong enought to stop steel tipped arrows. Many say steel tipped arrows made the armored mounted knight obsolete, and gunpowder even more so. There is a major difference between plate steel and modern made armor. The old fashioned "armor" is about equal to (very)thin modern steel plate.
Old fashioned armor simply was not strong enought to stop steel tipped arrows. Many say steel tipped arrows made the armored mounted knight obsolete, and gunpowder even more so. There is a major difference between plate steel and modern made armor. The old fashioned "armor" is about equal to (very)thin modern steel plate.
Unless you are using a rifle, your enemy is standing still and very close, shooting for the pelvis is more likely gonna result in a miss. In a real armed confrontation, many shots miss. How many times have we heard of fully trained police firing all the ammo they have with just a few center of mass hits? You might as well try to aim for a knee.... Are you moving? Is your puse racing? Are you scared? Is your enemy moving? Is he shooting also? Are your hands shaking? Do you hit a perfect bullseye during rapid/panic fire? Do you even have time to aim?
Keep the "perfect" or "dream" shots to the realm of target shooting and video games where they belong. Aim for center mass/vital organs, repeat as fast as possible, and hope you dont receive the same. NOTHING will stop an agressor more surely than an exploded heart or collapsed lung. The "head shot" is reserved as a "coup de gras" after the lung/heart is stopped.
Keep the "perfect" or "dream" shots to the realm of target shooting and video games where they belong. Aim for center mass/vital organs, repeat as fast as possible, and hope you dont receive the same. NOTHING will stop an agressor more surely than an exploded heart or collapsed lung. The "head shot" is reserved as a "coup de gras" after the lung/heart is stopped.
Watch Ryder.
I have a 10 inch thick plate outside that was a base plate for some kind of machine.
My recurves that are only 50 pounds can shoot through it.
Of course, its 100 years old or more completely rusted and already has holes in it... but hey.. Now you can start claiming Longbows can penetrate tank armor
I have a 10 inch thick plate outside that was a base plate for some kind of machine.
My recurves that are only 50 pounds can shoot through it.
Of course, its 100 years old or more completely rusted and already has holes in it... but hey.. Now you can start claiming Longbows can penetrate tank armor
I'll put my Darton and a 125g Thunderhead against any soft body armor any day. If it can blow through bone then it can kill a vest.
Ballistic armor is not rated for spike or knife protections, that is a separate class of body armor. So yes arrows, ice picks, and knives will penetrate standard police issue armor.
The Spike armour is heavier and stiffer, restricts movement and is hotter so it is not commonly issued to anyone but prison guards in high risk assignments.
Look up the NIJ spike requirements, Spike 3 only stops 81 joules of pressure, so an arrow will typically still go through spike armor as well.
Now your military grade rifle plates level 3 and 4 will stop them.
The Spike armour is heavier and stiffer, restricts movement and is hotter so it is not commonly issued to anyone but prison guards in high risk assignments.
Look up the NIJ spike requirements, Spike 3 only stops 81 joules of pressure, so an arrow will typically still go through spike armor as well.
Now your military grade rifle plates level 3 and 4 will stop them.
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