Armalite or PTR?
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I think I shall cast my vote with a picture...
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My decision factors were:
*Ease of maintenance
*Ammo availability (the PTR loves steel cased ammo)
*Parts availability (..and cheap..)
*Reliability (I've tested them in snow, rain, mud, and through a high round count)
*Accuracy (The AR might be an interesting comparison, both are more than enough for a combat rifle)
*Total cost (factory mags are dirt cheap, too..)
*Optics (unlike the A2s, the FALs, the M1as, etc, the SC particularly, has the rails ready to go, but even the other PTRs are easy to mount, and have solid platforms for doing so...)
Some cons:
*No BHO (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Hefty (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Ergonomics and reloading mags (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Recoil (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Reloading brass (I reload just fine for my PTRs, but some people panic over loosing 1/100 cases...)
*Finicky with third world ammunition (I imagine the AR10 might have problems with indian, and türkish ammo too, as does the FAL and M1A, but since the PTR is the unpopular foreign exchange student, everyone likes to pick on it...)
My decision factors were:
*Ease of maintenance
*Ammo availability (the PTR loves steel cased ammo)
*Parts availability (..and cheap..)
*Reliability (I've tested them in snow, rain, mud, and through a high round count)
*Accuracy (The AR might be an interesting comparison, both are more than enough for a combat rifle)
*Total cost (factory mags are dirt cheap, too..)
*Optics (unlike the A2s, the FALs, the M1as, etc, the SC particularly, has the rails ready to go, but even the other PTRs are easy to mount, and have solid platforms for doing so...)
Some cons:
*No BHO (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Hefty (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Ergonomics and reloading mags (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Recoil (I don't mind, but there's a lot of wimps that do...)
*Reloading brass (I reload just fine for my PTRs, but some people panic over loosing 1/100 cases...)
*Finicky with third world ammunition (I imagine the AR10 might have problems with indian, and türkish ammo too, as does the FAL and M1A, but since the PTR is the unpopular foreign exchange student, everyone likes to pick on it...)
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I haven't held or fired either of these weapons. So I have no experience with them. Based on what my preferences are I would choose an AR-10. I'm already familiar with the platform from my AR-15. Going off what I already know about each rifle I like the ergonomics of the AR-10 better.
Weight shouldn't really matter. If you're getting a .308 rifle you can expect it to be significantly heavier than your carbine (AR-15 or AK). The AR-10 from Armalite would be easier to mount optics on as they have the rail on the upper receiver (another plus). You'd have to purchase an aftermarket rail to mount optics on the PTR.
Based on these factors I'd pick the AR-10.
Weight shouldn't really matter. If you're getting a .308 rifle you can expect it to be significantly heavier than your carbine (AR-15 or AK). The AR-10 from Armalite would be easier to mount optics on as they have the rail on the upper receiver (another plus). You'd have to purchase an aftermarket rail to mount optics on the PTR.
Based on these factors I'd pick the AR-10.
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No, you don't. Look at my picture, the SC has the rail built on the receiver from the factory. Also, I do have them both for comparison...the ergonomics of the PTR and AR10 are far more similar than people realize.
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Touche. I still think I would prefer the charging handle at the rear of the reciever vice the forward charging handle of the PTR. Also, what about price?
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I won my SC NIB from PTR's dist. in connecticut...
I think they retail in the same range, but I think the SC is slightly cheaper, if not, it is once you buy a couple mags, LOL...
:The SC also comes with 3 rails on the forearm.
The charging handle doesn't bother me, in fact, I think the charging handle on the AR is stupid, but BHO saves the day for it. The HK slap is so naturally badass, even chuck norris approves.
But hey, you know how it is in the field....I'm not sure about you guys, but I try not to wait and hear *click*click*click* before I put in a fresh mag.
My understanding of the two so far.
PTR is about a 2 lbs. heavier.
Again, price is essentially the same after kitting out with a couple of more mags, scope, etc.
Mag price beyond 2-3 might begin to be a factor as the PTR mags appear to be less than half the cost of the Armalite models UNLESS I am missing an aftermarket supply source.
PTR is about a 2 lbs. heavier.
Again, price is essentially the same after kitting out with a couple of more mags, scope, etc.
Mag price beyond 2-3 might begin to be a factor as the PTR mags appear to be less than half the cost of the Armalite models UNLESS I am missing an aftermarket supply source.
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PTR mags are under $2.00...I bought up several cases of them at $0.97 not so far in the past. All milsurp, most were like new, out of about 200 mags, only a few were beaten to ****, I just ditched the mags and saved the follower and spring...
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG304-36.html
Of course, if you're allergic to used items, you can buy new milsurp G3 mags still in their packaging for $10...
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1.97 a mag? Hmmm maybe I'd learn to use that funky charging handle for that alone.
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You are just jelly of the H&K slap. We all know the the AR finger pull is for sissies.
:I'm not pretending I am going to be going on commando missions in the wilds so the weight isn't that big a concern for me. I have an FNAR that weighs in at 12+lbs. fully-loaded and scoped that I wouldn't dream of trying to lug more than a hundred yards or so and sure couldn't be throwing around.
My expectation is to be primarily in a defensive, laid-up role.
My expectation is to be primarily in a defensive, laid-up role.
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If I ever have to use them in anger, that's certainly how they'll be used, unless the whole red army is charging my farm, then I might consider leaving...
Although, I would feel plenty confident taking them all out for a hike....the SC is the lightest of them all atm. After a few miles, determining the weight difference of a few ounces is kinda hard... I even take big bess (Far left) hunting, exclusively...
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I've heard that the PTR's are picky when it comes to ammo. They are designed to shoot civilian .308 ammo not 7.62 surplus. Have you found that to be the case with your PTR? This guy looks to have the same rifle as your first post. He talks about some of the ammo sensitivity issues his PTR had.
http://www.gothamsurvival.com/?tag=ptr-91-review
http://www.gothamsurvival.com/?tag=ptr-91-review
I have had all of them and settled on the AR10 as my weapon of choice. The AR10 is more accurate and since I have short arms I was able to mount an adjustable stock so that it fit me better. With an ACOG scope it works great and shoots about any 308/7.62X54 ammo without problems. It doesn't bend up the brass like the HK 91 and clones do.
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I'm not sure what's going on in that guy's rifle, but all three of mine have no problem with everything I've fed them, and odly, everything HE fed them. The only problems I've had is with indian/türk surplus and WQ3130. Like I said earlier, nothings perfect, and I know the other platforms have some ammo issues as well.
That said, that guy's story is pretty abnormal, even for a "finnicky PTR". Yes, the PTR has some issues with some types of ammo, but odly every type he mentioned isn't one...lol???
: PMC and PPU are candy.... He has a really abnormal problem there. He said he should have gotten a DSA, I hope he wouldn't have gotten one with a improperly built weak receiver, aluminium upper, shattering bolt, worn pins, stuck regulator, poorly made lower, or expects to shoot the same junk surplus ammo, or steel cases in it. See how easy it is to find problems? If you couldn't go to DSA's official site, or FALfiles, and read for yourself, you'd think I was making all that up...Also, to a couple other points, there is a tapco AR stock made for the PTR. The Magpul PTR stock is god of them all, but I haven't managed to scrape up $200 for one yet...I'm going to eventually, but I'm looking at adding a GI to my PTR collection as another beater...The GI has no ammo problems, btw...
If it were up to me, PTR would built every rifle to H&K chamber specs, but they believe in it for some reason, the GI is the answer to the bitching about ammo...
Anyways, once you find the one box of ammo the PTR actually can shoot (LOL
) you can do things like this without failure:
I performed these tests prior to getting my other 2 PTRs, but well after breaking in this rifle. If I had gone by my first range trip and not allowed the PTR another chance, I'd be the first one to jump in these threads and call them sh*t, because my first range trip I was effing furious...
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I know the OP said only these two options, but why not consider a psl-54c? It fires a 7.62x54 cartridge, 10 round mag semi-auto. And with a little bit of gunsmithing (few extra bucks) you can shorten the barrel and fine tune it. Then you will get AK reliability, great firepower, easily capable of hitting man size targets out to 600 yards with surplus ammo.
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Because the PSL is a DMR rifle and not a MBR.... That'd be my reasoning.
I have a Cetme and have thrown almost another $400-$500 into it. Trigger job, HK drum rear sight, HK furnature, new HK rollers... I'm happy with it, shoots nice. I got lucky, others have not been lucky.
I have a Cetme and have thrown almost another $400-$500 into it. Trigger job, HK drum rear sight, HK furnature, new HK rollers... I'm happy with it, shoots nice. I got lucky, others have not been lucky.
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Yea, I don't recommend the CETME, nor dumping $500 in it... We've both been over this, so to each his own...
As far as the PSL, it is heavily outclassed by every other MBR out there. 10rd mags? 7.62x54r? Pencil thin barrel? Optics solutions? Accuracy? Length? I seriously considered a PSL, even after I had a PTR...it just didn't add up...
I think the only thing the PSL has going for it, against, say the PTR, FAL, M14, AR10, ETC, is just the fact that the bad guys use it, and it looks badass.
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