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Discussion Starter #1
It seems to me the mindset of the survivalist on this site varies between the lone wolf type and the civic minded type. Which you are probably depends on where you live and where you are in your life. To me, the loner will be at a severe disadvantage, no matter hom much camo you have or how many bullets or food. A small group is better, but not by much. There is a good thread on this about country folk compared to city folk. Totally different mindset. Are you afraid of roving hungry bands, or do you see bands of people working together, as in farming, building, etc.

If you are invested in your community (read married, family, etc.) I beleive you are more committed to a town or regrion and more likely to stay. If you are younger, more likely to bug out to a strange area in the deep country, to get away from people. How safe will you be in a strange area?

Which is better? Are you part of a church or synagogue with hundreds of members? Are you on your school PTA, or volunteer fire department or ambulance corp with dozens of members? Do you volunteer time with scouting groups, or team sports in your area? Are you taking or have taken Red Cross certification classes? Are you part of a HAM radio club?

Call it contacts or being plugged in, but to me, to survive a downturn, you need the work and help of thousands, now a few hardcore members of a group. The plugged in survivalist is a community resource. The loner with a bug out bag is of little value to others in an emergency.

I sometimes picture my suburban area with all the lawns converted to Victory Gardens, supplemented by local farms. I imagine people at home helping older neigbors, as we do now. Is your model "Jericho" or "Mad Max"? Do you have 100 knives or 2 or 3 good ones? Are you a collector or a preparer? Are you a resource?
 

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*** Bless America
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Excellent thread. I was just learning about our homefront rationing, bonds, Victory speed limits, and victory gardens during WW2 in my US History 202 class today. I would prefer to be with a community of people I know during a SHTF scenario. i am just a broke college kid so what do i know, except that I was always taught, "Two Heads are Better Than One."
 

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I have family in an area that's only a couple of hours drive from here but is quite remotely located. The area they live in is a community unto itself located very near an extremely small town that's pretty close knit. For now that is probably where we'll end up going if TSHTF before we can make other arrangements. But, it's an excellent option as it IS difficult to access and easy to defend if it came to that, there's already lots of livestock and wildlife present as well as gardens & greenhouses. There is an eclectic group of people there, medical personnel, teachers, architect/carpenter/stone mason's, ranchers, farmers and the place has a decent water supply that couldn't be easily diverted or polluted.

I'm a community minded person where SHTF scenarios are concerned. The more hands to help out the better. More hands might mean more mouths but it also means more hands to collect food, build shelter, make/find needful items, etc. And... it means more MINDS, more people to set their minds to problem solving means that I have a better chance of finding a solution to a problem because I'm not the only one trying to figure it out.
 

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under prepared patriot
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im a volunteer firefighter
 

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I'm a PO with family nearby, I was in boyscouts for a time and I have a couple good knives, and a really good multitool. (My lady got it for me last Christmas with a survival guide and a bunch of survival DVDs, best gifts EVER.)

I don't see myself going into a huge group, nor do I see myself running off into the middle of nowhere. I am not concerned with roving groups of people causing trouble as I have the means to defend myself and others from danger. I don't feel that society today will work together.

The crime rate is already spiking just in this year with violence and thefts.

I should also point out I am a first responder, of course.
 

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I travel light
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I weld. Have first aid certified training. Know about gasoline engine mechanics and basic electricity knowledge. I step hard, talk soft. I´ve worked as a teacher and loved it. Yes, perhaps I´m a resource to the community.
 

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Scarred for life...
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I have had the misfortune of being in a situation, almost life and death serious, in which I called on my "friends' to help me, and only two out of a hundred showed up.

Some pretty bad things had been said about me and I needed someone who knew me to come into court and plainly state that among other things, I took care of my kids and that they lived with me.

There was no need to lie, no need to embellish, just stand up there and tell the truth for 2 minutes and be done with it.

But time after time, the people who I had trusted and thought the world of, turned their backs on me. They saw an article in the paper, and that was all they needed to hear. It didnt matter that they had known me for 10 years and knew I was not capable of what I was accused of, it was in the paper and was gospel and I must have done it.

In the end I won. I got custody of my kids back and they have lived with me for the past 6 years now. But for a brief time, I was at the mercy of the criminal justice system and people whom I loved and thought the world of, threw me to the wolves.

This is an absolute certainty if you belong to a large group of people, even if you grew up with them and trust them with your life. They will do whatever they think they have to do to protect themselves, and if that means throwing you under the tracks then so be it.

In almost any scenario, a group will fail because one of their own talked. It will happen.

If you have 100 groups, and SHTF comes, 99 of those groups will be been destroyed within a month.

Some will be angry because you didn't let in their Aunt Gladys, while others will be angry because they weren't elected leader and will take their "toys" and go home. Some will succumb to outside pressures and interrogation. Remember you don't have to do anything illegal to be investigated by the alphabet boys and most cops will tell you the height of police work is to simply turn the screws on someone and watch them talk.

It is truly a rare group that has no weak link, and will actually make it past a few weeks post SHTF. The vast majority will begin falling apart within hours of a real SHTF.

I don't think of myself as a lone wolf.

I am simply a person whose eyes have been opened as to the danger of trusting other people. Other people lie, they cheat, and they steal and you will never know someone good enough to know without a doubt that they wouldn't do the same to you, be it family, a person you've known your entire life, or the guy you just met.

With a little luck I can survive almost anything right now for around a year. Give me another year and I could survive 3 years. Give me 5 years and I will be able to survive indefinitely. This is with no help from anyone else.

Of course if I had a buddy I could possible go twice as fast, but what if he doesn't want to contribute to common items and still demands that the equipment be used to support him and his family when SHTF comes?

What if his son gets arrested for petty larceny and he figures that by telling the cops about this crazy "survivalist" (namely me) they might go easy on his son? Dont tell me this doesnt happen. I know it does.

What if he shows up the morning after SHTF with 30 people and the facilities can only support 4? It is too late to not tell him where your BOL is isnt it? You cant defend against him because he knows all the defenses of you BOL. You are fracked.

There are those who would espouse the virtues of having people able to pull guard duty in shifts, etc but seriously if you have to actively guard something, you are in the wrong location. If i had to do that, a good guard dog would be far more valuable. They don't eat as much, and they don't argue, and they don't show up on judgment day with 30 extra puppies to feed.
 

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Crazy old man
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I agree we will need to build strong communities. Yes some will talk , and it will cause problems. We will deal with each problem as they come up. I have great faith in people willingness to band together. Safety in numbers.:cool:
 

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my model is definitely more Mad Max. With a few exceptions, I will wait to see how people react before I decide if I can trust them.
 

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I agree with you to a point CB123, it's hard to find people you trust with your life and livelihood. The vast majority of folks these days are out for #1 and could care less about what happens to anyone else. There are, however, some few of us out here that do care about others, and what happens to them. I am fortunate enough to have a few friends that know everything about me and what I have been doing and done over the past few yrs. They also have been doing the same to a greater or lesser extent, and are all coming my way if the SHTF. We were a team, and a dam good one, at one time and will be again. We have all at one time or another made those last minute flights across the country to help one that's in trouble.

As far as the rest of this thread is concerned, I am a resource to my community. I can do almost anything. Raised on a farm, and 20 yrs in the military have taught me the skills I will need to help myself and others. There are folks here that know me and have already turned to me for help. For instance, I was authorized to purchase and train our voluteer fire department on the use of GPS equipment for their trucks. I'm not a member of the FD but they recognized that I had more experience with it and came to me for help. I have also taught SWAT tactics to our Sheriffs Dept, worked and taught in our school part time, and other stuff to numerous to mention here. All this being said, I am a loner, I live alone with little or no contact to the community unless they come to me. I sit alone at the bar when I go there for a beer or for dinner. I talk to very few people here beyond social graces. Fortunately the folks living here are relatively smart, and it's a small town where everyone knows everyone, and they almost all are friendly folks.
 

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One thing about us survivalists- we love ABSOLUTES don't we?

If your not planning on "going down with the ship" in a community of sheeple your a "Mad Max" loner. LMAO

It boils down to personal attitudes. Some folks are helpful and trustworthy and some are not.

If you HONESTLY BELIEVE that EVERYONE in your community is helpful and trustworthy, then your community based victory gardens may SUPPLEMENT your food supplies.

I think you'll be out there for a while working and as soon as the tomatoes start reddening up, they'll start "disappearing."

If you can find an area where there is absolutely no WELFARE given, no one is on food stamps or gubmint assistance of ANY type, then and only then do "I" believe a "community" based plan will work. If you find that place let me know, I'll move there.

35 years of life experience in several places on God's green earth have shown me that less than 10% of the general population IS helpful and trustworthy.

That's "MY" take on it. Some folks are going to take a different view of it. My suggestion would be to TEST YOUR PLANS NOW.

If you think that everyone is going to work together in the PAW, try it out NOW. Plan and plant a huge community garden. Keep good track of who actually comes and helps, who wants a handout, etc.

I've worked my plan and I KNOW what we can and cannot accomplish. When you factor in variables the outcome changes. All of your neighbors that you EXPECT to help out, they are called "variables."

It's just like the "I'll have some Mosin Nagants to hand out to my neighbors and we will all 'defend our subdivision." Nice for a FICTION story. The reality of it is that you DO NOT REALLY KNOW these people.

If you can't FEED THEM, don't ARM them. No one is going to be an unpaid mercenary for long....

And I'm NOT a "mad max loner", we are known in our closest "community" as helpful folks that give both of our "time and treasures." But I'm not a pollyanna either, I realize EVERY man has a dark side and as things get bad, you WILL see more of that than the good side.

Lowdown3
 

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I have had the misfortune of being in a situation, almost life and death serious, in which I called on my "friends' to help me, and only two out of a hundred showed up.

Some pretty bad things had been said about me and I needed someone who knew me to come into court and plainly state that among other things, I took care of my kids and that they lived with me.

There was no need to lie, no need to embellish, just stand up there and tell the truth for 2 minutes and be done with it.

But time after time, the people who I had trusted and thought the world of, turned their backs on me. They saw an article in the paper, and that was all they needed to hear. It didnt matter that they had known me for 10 years and knew I was not capable of what I was accused of, it was in the paper and was gospel and I must have done it.

In the end I won. I got custody of my kids back and they have lived with me for the past 6 years now. But for a brief time, I was at the mercy of the criminal justice system and people whom I loved and thought the world of, threw me to the wolves.

This is an absolute certainty if you belong to a large group of people, even if you grew up with them and trust them with your life. They will do whatever they think they have to do to protect themselves, and if that means throwing you under the tracks then so be it.

In almost any scenario, a group will fail because one of their own talked. It will happen.

If you have 100 groups, and SHTF comes, 99 of those groups will be been destroyed within a month.

Some will be angry because you didn't let in their Aunt Gladys, while others will be angry because they weren't elected leader and will take their "toys" and go home. Some will succumb to outside pressures and interrogation. Remember you don't have to do anything illegal to be investigated by the alphabet boys and most cops will tell you the height of police work is to simply turn the screws on someone and watch them talk.

It is truly a rare group that has no weak link, and will actually make it past a few weeks post SHTF. The vast majority will begin falling apart within hours of a real SHTF.

I don't think of myself as a lone wolf.

I am simply a person whose eyes have been opened as to the danger of trusting other people. Other people lie, they cheat, and they steal and you will never know someone good enough to know without a doubt that they wouldn't do the same to you, be it family, a person you've known your entire life, or the guy you just met.

With a little luck I can survive almost anything right now for around a year. Give me another year and I could survive 3 years. Give me 5 years and I will be able to survive indefinitely. This is with no help from anyone else.

Of course if I had a buddy I could possible go twice as fast, but what if he doesn't want to contribute to common items and still demands that the equipment be used to support him and his family when SHTF comes?

What if his son gets arrested for petty larceny and he figures that by telling the cops about this crazy "survivalist" (namely me) they might go easy on his son? Dont tell me this doesnt happen. I know it does.

What if he shows up the morning after SHTF with 30 people and the facilities can only support 4? It is too late to not tell him where your BOL is isnt it? You cant defend against him because he knows all the defenses of you BOL. You are fracked.

There are those who would espouse the virtues of having people able to pull guard duty in shifts, etc but seriously if you have to actively guard something, you are in the wrong location. If i had to do that, a good guard dog would be far more valuable. They don't eat as much, and they don't argue, and they don't show up on judgment day with 30 extra puppies to feed.
I understand what you are saying and i have not gone through some thing that bad but i did go through a devorice and that will tell you who your friends are so i need to give that more though
 

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Mountain Critter
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It seems to me the mindset of the survivalist on this site varies between the lone wolf type and the civic minded type.
Well, I'm both, if that's possible.

I currently write preparedness-related articles for local publications, help people in my community get started with food storage and learn to live more simply and self-reliantly, and teach wilderness survival courses. I’m glad to do all of this for those who are truly interested in preparing, because everybody has to start somewhere, and each new person who takes an interest in these matters will be one less who is waiting in line for the FEMA handouts when the time comes.

But being involved in the community in this way has allowed me to realize that, though there are many people who want to take some responsibility in their lives, there are far more who couldn’t care less, who would choose to feel safe and be cared for by some government agency before taking the first step towards a self-reliant life. I sure don’t want to be in the middle of that herd when it gets spooked and stampedes! I’ll do what I can for those who are trying to help themselves now, but when it all goes down, you won’t find me hanging around any population centers. The sheer numbers, even in a small town, mean a far greater chance for trouble, disease and violence in any type of serious SHTF/societal breakdown scenario.

So when it comes down to it, I believe I will be a lot safer (and freer…) on my own or with a very few people who I completely trust with my life, in remote and difficult to access terrain that is very familiar to me and very far from where the masses of unprepared people will be concentrated. It only takes “the work and help of thousands” to survive, (to quote the OP) if you are plugged into and dependant on the system for your day to day survival. Work to break those ties and learn to provide for your own survival, now, while you can still afford mistakes.

Just my opinion, and if everyone wants to disagree that's fine by me, 'cause that will just mean it'll be that much less crowded out where I'll be... :)
 

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I am a SHEEP DOG.

They say people are in three groups Sheep ,Wolves ,Sheep Dogs.
You can figure out the order I hope. Sheep wander around and never start trouble and wait for someone to tell them what to do. They want someone to protect them.
Wolves well they prey on the sheep eating them as they go and driving them.
Now the sheep see the Sheep Dog who they stayed clear of because he also had fangs and looked much like the wolf. But now they run and get behind him as he bares his fangs to protect the sheep. So I am a Sheep Dog.


Credit for this concept goes to Southwest Shooting Authority ,Farmington New Mexico
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I weld. Have first aid certified training. Know about gasoline engine mechanics and basic electricity knowledge. I step hard, talk soft. I´ve worked as a teacher and loved it. Yes, perhaps I´m a resource to the community.
Do you share your skills with your community now? You have skills that could be helpful to any group. What you do now will probably be how you conduct yourself in an emergency.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
my model is definitely more Mad Max. With a few exceptions, I will wait to see how people react before I decide if I can trust them.
I guess your name (like my avatar)} references Mad Max/Road Warrior. But after 15 years as a homeowner, coaching community kids in sports, scouting, chruch activiites, etc., the volunteer Ambulance, you start to get so plugged in area, your circle grows and grows. There is so much need vor volunteers NOW, and so many valuable skills to0 learn and practice, I say better to start now and have your network established for later.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
One thing about us survivalists- we love ABSOLUTES don't we? Yes!

If your not planning on "going down with the ship" in a community of sheeple your a "Mad Max" loner. LMAO OK, so much for absolutes.

It boils down to personal attitudes. Some folks are helpful and trustworthy and some are not. Yes. True in any organization as well.

If you HONESTLY BELIEVE that EVERYONE in your community is helpful and trustworthy, then your community based victory gardens may SUPPLEMENT your food supplies. I beleive everyone has the potential to become a communicty resource.

I think you'll be out there for a while working and as soon as the tomatoes start reddening up, they'll start "disappearing."

If you can find an area where there is absolutely no WELFARE given, no one is on food stamps or gubmint assistance of ANY type, then and only then do "I" believe a "community" based plan will work. If you find that place let me know, I'll move there. I get your point. Does not exist.

35 years of life experience in several places on God's green earth have shown me that less than 10% of the general population IS helpful and trustworthy. Here we disagree. Elderly, sick out. I think about 70% of people are "helpful and trustworthy", but I need to know you at least 5 years before I trust you!

That's "MY" take on it. Some folks are going to take a different view of it. My suggestion would be to TEST YOUR PLANS NOW. Yup. 100%

If you think that everyone is going to work together in the PAW, try it out NOW. Plan and plant a huge community garden. Keep good track of who actually comes and helps, who wants a handout, etc. Yup. Exactly what I recommend, plus Red Cross, HAM Radio club, scouting, etc.

I've worked my plan and I KNOW what we can and cannot accomplish. When you factor in variables the outcome changes. All of your neighbors that you EXPECT to help out, they are called "variables."I want to be varaible "x".

It's just like the "I'll have some Mosin Nagants to hand out to my neighbors and we will all 'defend our subdivision." Nice for a FICTION story. The reality of it is that you DO NOT REALLY KNOW these people. Yes. Unreal to beleive you will be the community armamment center.

If you can't FEED THEM, don't ARM them. No one is going to be an unpaid mercenary for long....

And I'm NOT a "mad max loner", we are known in our closest "community" as helpful folks that give both of our "time and treasures." But I'm not a pollyanna either, I realize EVERY man has a dark side and as things get bad, you WILL see more of that than the good side. Poly who?

Lowdown3
Great post. I agree with 90%, especially trying out things including your network now. Community garden idea excellent. I beleive family based groups will prosper in an emergency, political organizations will unglue. Better to join a bowling league than a political group. Your friends now will be your friends later. To have friends later, be a friend now. (poly who?)
 

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It seems to me the mindset of the survivalist on this site varies between the lone wolf type and the civic minded type. Which you are probably depends on where you live and where you are in your life. To me, the loner will be at a severe disadvantage, no matter hom much camo you have or how many bullets or food.
I concur, but some of us seemingly have no choice.
 

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Information is Ammunition
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yeah, it depends on your environment as much as what kind of person you are.

for instance, I live in a small, quiet apartment complex that doesn't see much crime at all. regardless, the management and the tenants seem to be glad to see me when I'm just getting home and I'm in uniform- even though most of them know I'm not a cop.

I don't belong to any church or organization at the moment, but during Ike- I did hit multiple PODs to get supplies for some of the older tenants, who either couldn't get out or needed ice- like for medications that needed refridgeration.

In fact I noticed that up to maybe a month after the storm, EVERYONE was more tolerant of each other, and generally nicer than city people tend to be.
 
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