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I have a couple of swords and a battle axe which is razor sharp, my go to weapon is still smith 38. I do use the swords to cut corn stalks in the garden and the axe to split kindling.
 

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How many thousands of people worldwide have been hacked to death with garbage handmade machetes . A cheap garbage sword won't stand up to sword fighting but can easily dispatch people.
Sure. If your fighting unarmed people, almost any weapon will work.

I'm actually in sort of a weird place on this whole subject. I'm one of the few people who have actually practiced full contact swordfighting at a high level for, from age 18-to about 30, and was an active bladesmith from years, making pattern welded blades and carbon steel armor as my business.

But I also think that its not a practical skill in a world with guns.

So when it comes to swords, I have high standards....but when it comes to their practicality...it doesn't matter.

Sort of like a wine snob with his own vineyard who doesn't think people should drink.


I guess I'm saying....if a person decided to take swords as a serious weapon in the modern era, I think they should take them very seriously in case they run into someone who knows what they are doing.
Just my luck I’d take my cheap machete out and challenge some guy to a dual then find out he’s the only guy for 1000 miles that has a good sword and knows how to use it.
 

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A marathon not a sprint
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A machete has proven itself useful around the property at times , never had much call for a sword and when my opponent is say a black bear , I would be better off with pots and pans clanging than a sword . But in a city a few months back a sudanese refugee our Canadian government took in, bludgeoned a doctor to death with a hammer and hacked him with a machete so I guess you never know what expect ... as mentioned above a sword would not be out of the realm of possibilities .

No sword experience whatsoever , but I am perhaps one of the few ladies who's father taught her to grind machete blades out of used up lawnmower blades .
 

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Just my luck I’d take my cheap machete out and challenge some guy to a dual then find out he’s the only guy for 1000 miles that has a good sword and knows how to use it.
The odds are low indeed.

But in practical terms, I did it for ten years.....I know six people within 50 miles, who have been doing it for 30 and could clean my clock.

You could actually have a couple hundred serious swordfighters within 1000 miles.

Of course....probably tens of thousands of good shooters in that same distance.
 

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old gunsel
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Random thoughts...

I wonder how a 18 oz., aluminum, T-ball bat would do against a machete...
That or a 3C cell Maglight.

Sword fighting in a hallway would’ve difficult, I’m sure.
Would a Bowie be better in a hallway?

Would a trained operator with a PR24 be able to beat a swordsman?
I guess a lot would depend on the type of sword and experience.

How about a “sword bayonet” or French spike bayonet...?

..and, what about Naomi?

If sword fighting and duels ever become popular again,
I think black powder pistols might be better. JMHO.
 

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Random thoughts...

I wonder how a 18 oz., aluminum, T-ball bat would do against a machete...
That or a 3C cell Maglight.
Very well against a machete, maglight would be almost useless as a weapon...and as a flashlight.


Sword fighting in a hallway would’ve difficult, I’m sure.
Depends on the height of the ceiling. Low overhead is the biggest space constraint problem for swords. But space is not as important as you would think as part of the skill is learning how to be 'compact' in your movements. Preforming big sweeping blows is a great way to get yourself killed. I had a problem with this when I first started and my trainer actually attached a 12" bungie cord between my elbow and faceplate to get me used to keeping my arms in tight.

Is similar to boxing....haymakers may look cool and hit long a ton of bricks when they hit but anyone with experience will just block you with your arm out of position and pummel you in the face.

Would a trained operator with a PR24 be able to beat a swordsman?
I guess a lot would depend on the type of sword and experience.
ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, no, because the swordsman could 'sacrifice' himself to some baton blows that would not greatly injure him will the baton fighter could not do the same. A glancing blow with a baton can be shaken off, a glancing blow with a sword on an unarmored person can still be a fight ender.

This is also why ARMOR is complete game changer, even if not perfect protection, armor means the fighter can be much more aggressive as he only has to actually defend against a narrow range of blows rather than avoiding ALL blows the way an unarmored man does.

The cool thing about a baton though is if you are a trained sword fighter, you can apply all those skills to a baton and against anyone BUT sword fighter (or gun fighter) have a huge advantage with someone small enough to cary in a pocket.

I only ever had one baton vs knife encounter in my life, a bum in a park...but I disabled his hand with a single strike from six feet away before he even got close enough to be a threat. He actually ended up cut as well because it was the knife that I was striking at, since I was simply trying to disarm him and the blow twisted it around in his hand at cut him. He simple said "S#!†" and ran off clutching his hand. I picked up his knife, tossed it in the river 50 feet away and that was that.

The great advantage of a sword or baton is not just that its longer, its that a knife can only move as fast as the hand holding it, but a sword tip can move many times faster because of the leverage and geometry of a lever. A movement of a few inches at your risk can translate into five or six feet of movement at the sword tip in the same period of time.
 

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spirit animal / unicorn
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Assuming you can own and have the resources to own the best firearms (ARs, AKs, top tier handguns, shotguns, etc.), is a good sword a relevant self defense tool/weapon?

I now have many nice useful swords, and was handling and admiring them the other day and wondered if there's any situation where I would take a katana with me ...

In other words, is there any realistic setting in which you'd grab your longsword or katana in lieu of or in addition to your AR/AK/shotgun/pistol for any scenario where you had to defend yourself?
Assuming that is it WROL, and that we're just talking about the tactical question, not the legal one...

You have to think up why swords were used in the first place, and then try to determine if something like that would ever apply again today.

I'm on a kick of doing this with both martial arts and medieval weapons, kind of historical forensics, and I think I'm figuring a lot of things out.

Just to take a real quick look at it...

1) Survivalists are always concerned about the ammo situation. So yeah, for a brave new world where ammo has become a lot more finite, swords might be useful.

If you look just as far back into history as the 1800s, when firearms still were muzzle loaders, they still used bayonet charges and cavalry sabers. It's kind of a similar thing. They had to do some blade fighting to fill in the breach left by their weapons' very low rate of fire.

2) In the pre-firearm days, spears were actually the most important weapons, not swords. Why were swords so prevalent alongside them then?

I guess they were fast, they were easy-to-carry personal self-defense weapons, and they were (relatively speaking) close-quarters weapons, and back-up weapons.

For instance, think of a multiple opponents situation, where the swordsman is the outnumbered one. A good advantage of the spear in that situation is reach. But maybe experience actually proved that in this situation relying on the advantages of a sword more likely helped you survive. It's easier to enfilade the lone guy trying to use the spear, but with the sword, he can more quickly change directions and attack effectively, even when the opponents have gotten pretty close.

For an apocalypse application, I guess maybe doing desperate ops in enemy territory. I'm talking about a day and age when the question of pepper spray and stun guns is totally out the window, and instead, your only chance against overwhelming odds would be to quickly, actually kill or maim a lot of your attackers, not just stun them. So I guess we could be talking about some kind of rescue mission, or some kind of desperate raid to recover something, like maybe a hard drive.

Just a few other quick and general historical forensics things I'd like to mention as an aside--

One thing that I think makes us misunderstand a lot of this stuff is that we're not realizing how excellent people used to be with these weapons. I think a lot of things don't totally make sense to us, and what would fill in the blanks is if we knew that these people were much more capable than we expect. They spent a lot of time on it, and they knew a lot about the challenge they were facing, and they knew exactly which narrow, niche situation a particular weapon (or technique, or strategy, or whatever) was most suited to. They had a really shrewd way of going about it compared to what we expect today.

Second, I think what we mostly miss out on today in martial arts that people had in the old days is strategy. For instance, if you go to a martial arts school for a couple years, I think they likely give you very little on one person vs. multiple opponents, or multiple opponents vs. multiple opponents. And it's actually weird, because it's part of real life, and it's kind of like kindergarten level if you're never learning it. I think that challenge will definitely be a big part of the apocalypse / PAW.

However I think the real smart guys on this today are cops. I think they have reinvented some of this stuff.

Also, I think if you could go back very few generations, like just 2 or 3 generations, the old guys still had this, like for conflicts between young men from different ethnic enclaves in big cities. I think they could have taught you a lot of streetwise things that had survived from the old medieval days.

Third, from the modern point of view I think we kind of look for a simplest, most efficient way, and are real skeptical of why there needed to be many different weapons of many different techniques. We think there should be one obviously superior thing, instead of understanding the need for a toolbox / deep bag of tricks.

I think what we are missing there has to do partially, again, with the fact that martial artists were very trained up. They were very sharp, and knew a heck of a lot about what they were doing. I think when guys are at the pinnacle, you have to try to find something to use against them that they haven't trained up for, and that they're not ready for. That's they only way to get a guy who's as special as possible (if you can't outnumber him or anything). You have to have a weapon or a technique that attacks him in a weird way, or from a weird angle or with weird timing that he's not ready for.

If there were a really successful post-apocalyptic gang that built up a lot of experience killing people with knives, maybe we could beat them with swords. They might be much better than us with knives, but the natural advantages of the swords might neutralize it enough that it would be worthwhile to fight them that way.

Maybe that sounds really obvious, but I dunno, it could be anything- slingshots vs swords, bats vs swords. My point is just that you suddenly assault them with something that up to then they haven't been fighting against or sparring against at all, something that they in fact didn't even expect to see. They got used to dominating people with slingshots, and they got arrogant about their abilities, and in fact didn't even think up how they would deal with a large group, completely armed with swords, aggressively attacking them.
 

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spirit animal / unicorn
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It's actually sort of stupid that in the sports world, we can easily understand the value of a deep bag of tricks, but once it comes to martial arts, everybody wants there to be a simple, most obvious way to do it, that's also the best way, wants all the show-offs to actually be dummies, and wants to ignore all the people out there who have all different sorts of interesting things to offer. We're sure it's just a "gimmick" and a "flashy move" that's "unnecessarily athletic," and we just want to know about the high-percentage moves.

What if-- if we could take a time machine back to the old, old days-- it ended up the RIGHT WAY to do it was by having 70% or more of the gimmicks in your arsenal? You have various people in your gang or your army who each can do one of them at a top-notch level-- or you even are able to do them all that well yourself?

What if you couldn't have accomplished anything very important in the world with only simple techniques and short periods of training. Because the opponents were all too tough. Too trained up. They lived and breathed martial arts. In fact, there were hardly any people around that you could use yellow belt skills against. It almost would have been like, you only could fight women that way. Or guys who hadn't even achieved manhood yet.

Ditto for only learning one or two medieval weapons. You would have been doing great in the situation when it was the right weapon, but before long at all, you would have been faced with the niche situation that it didn't apply to. As long as the opponents that day were capable, you would have lost.
 

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Texas HB 1935 Bottom Line

The new law was effective on September 1st, 2017. The following is a summary of the new law with respect to carry of knives. Read the actual bill here: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/pdf/HB01935F.pdf

All “illegal knives” (Penal Code Sec. 46.01(6)) that were previously prohibited to carry (Penal Code Sec. 46.02) will be removed from Texas statute: This list includes: knives with blades longer than 5.5 inches, hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown, daggers, dirks, stilettos, poniards, swords, spears and Bowie knives.

NOTE: Knives that incorporate “knuckles” as part of the handle (Penal Code Sec. 46.01(8)), such as the iconic Model 1918 WWI Trench Knife and similar, remain illegal to possess in Texas (Penal Code Sec. 46.05(2)).

NOTE: Tomahawks remain classified as “clubs” (Penal Code Sec. 46.01(1)(D)) that are still illegal to carry (Penal Code Sec. 46.02) in Texas.

BOTTOM LINE Summary: Any adult can carry any knife legal to possess anywhere as long as it is not over five and a half (5.5) inches. You can carry longer knives almost everywhere, except as noted below. There is no separate rule for concealed carry, you may carry open or concealed, however you want. There is no limit on the number of knives you can carry.

After the fatal stabbing on the University of Texas Austin campus threatened to sink the “illegal knives” repeal entirely, a compromise was made to create a new category of knives called “location restricted” knives that only applies to knives with blades over 5.5″. Based on Texas judicial precedent, blade length is measured in a straight line from the most forward part of the handle (or where that would normally be if there is no added handle to the tang of the knife) to the point of the blade.

Knife Rights will be back in Texas in 2019 to address these remaining restrictions.

BOTTOM LINE Location Restricted Knives (those with blades over 5.5″), including swords and spears,cannot be carried in the following locations:

Schools and on any passenger transportation vehicle of a school

Polling Places

Courthouses

Airports past Security Screening (all knives are already prohibited by TSA)

Racetracks

Within 1,000 feet of the premises where an Execution is being conducted, if posted

Establishments (bars/restaurants) that derive 51% or more of their income from alcohol sales and which have a RED 51% sign posted (see right)

Sporting Events (high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic sporting event)

Correctional Facilities

Hospitals

Nursing Homes

Mental Hospitals

Amusement Parks

Churches, Synagogues and Established Places of Worship.

The penalty for carry of a location restricted knife in a prohibited location is a Class C Misdemeanor except for Schools where it is 3rd-degree Felony

MINORS & Location Restricted Knives (under 18 years of age):

You cannot sell, rent, lease, loan, or give a location restricted knife (or offer to do any of those things) to anyone under 18 years old without their parent’s written permission (for selling) or effective consent (for anything besides selling). The penalty is a Class A Misdemeanor.

If you’re under 18, you may not carry a location restricted knife outside of your home, property or a motor vehicle/watercraft owned by you and under your control (or directly enroute to the motor vehicle or watercraft), unless you’re under a parent or legal guardian’s direct supervision. The penalty is a Class C Misdemeanor.

We Will Be Back!

In 2013 Knife Rights’ repeal of Texas’ switchblade ban was enacted. In 2015 we got Knife Law Preemption enacted, removing all local knife ordinances more restrictive than Texas state law. Now in 2017 we have removed all of the “illegal knives” in Texas law, finally allowing Texans the right to carry a Bowie knife, dagger and virtually any other knife. But, we are not yet finished. We will be back in two years to see about striking those last remaining minor knife restrictions in Texas. We won’t stop until Texas is a free as everyone thinks Texas is.


i always thought it was funny, i can go to a political rally with an AK, but god belp me if i show up with a baseball bat or framing hammer!
 

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Assuming you can own and have the resources to own the best firearms (ARs, AKs, top tier handguns, shotguns, etc.), is a good sword a relevant self defense tool/weapon?

I now have many nice useful swords, and was handling and admiring them the other day and wondered if there's any situation where I would take a katana with me ...

In other words, is there any realistic setting in which you'd grab your longsword or katana in lieu of or in addition to your AR/AK/shotgun/pistol for any scenario where you had to defend yourself?
not for me. not if i had a gun handy. and if thats all i had i would probubly hide. failing that,sword it is, but i would rather have a baseball bat.
 

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It's actually sort of stupid that in the sports world, we can easily understand the value of a deep bag of tricks, but once it comes to martial arts, everybody wants there to be a simple, most obvious way to do it....
It's actually sort of stupid to compare sports where there are RULES about what is or isn't allowed, to self defense, especially defense with no rules.

Yes...you NEED to have a deep bag of tricks in sports, but you must stay within the rules, so using a cannon to serve a tennis ball or using a sword in a boxing match isn't going to happen. Having a deep bag of tricks isn't going to help a high school team beat the Pats, though it MIGHT help a 120 lb guy beat a heavyweight MMA champ in a cage...if the 120 lb guy is also an MMA champ, and gets lucky.

Self defense....so you pull your sword out of your big bad deep bag of tricks...and the guy with his ONE trick pony, a pistol, does an Indiana Jones on you.

If the simple obvious way is absolutely and literally the best way in 99% of all situations, conditions and scenarios....then your deep bag of tricks is kind of a joke.

Not saying it's worthless to have the skills...just saying the chances of them being effective in a real world scenario where you don't get to set the parameters or rules is a very very small chance, which would have been greatly enhanced by simply using a better, easier to use tool.
 

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Let the Debate begin
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not for me. not if i had a gun handy. and if thats all i had i would probubly hide. failing that,sword it is, but i would rather have a baseball bat.
Lets say the baseball bat is exactly the same length of the sword.
Why would you chose the bat?

Are you afraid to get blood on yourself?
Or is it that you don't want to kill anyone and think you
can just knock them out?

A sword can stab, or slash (at least a relevant sword can)
I would be interested in knowing why you would limit
yourself.
 

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Premium Member
Joined
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2,313 Posts
Texas HB 1935 Bottom Line

The new law was effective on September 1st, 2017. The following is a summary of the new law with respect to carry of knives. Read the actual bill here: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/pdf/HB01935F.pdf

All “illegal knives” (Penal Code Sec. 46.01(6)) that were previously prohibited to carry (Penal Code Sec. 46.02) will be removed from Texas statute: This list includes: knives with blades longer than 5.5 inches, hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown, daggers, dirks, stilettos, poniards, swords, spears and Bowie knives.

NOTE: Knives that incorporate “knuckles” as part of the handle (Penal Code Sec. 46.01(8)), such as the iconic Model 1918 WWI Trench Knife and similar, remain illegal to possess in Texas (Penal Code Sec. 46.05(2)).

NOTE: Tomahawks remain classified as “clubs” (Penal Code Sec. 46.01(1)(D)) that are still illegal to carry (Penal Code Sec. 46.02) in Texas.

BOTTOM LINE Summary: Any adult can carry any knife legal to possess anywhere as long as it is not over five and a half (5.5) inches. You can carry longer knives almost everywhere, except as noted below. There is no separate rule for concealed carry, you may carry open or concealed, however you want. There is no limit on the number of knives you can carry.

After the fatal stabbing on the University of Texas Austin campus threatened to sink the “illegal knives” repeal entirely, a compromise was made to create a new category of knives called “location restricted” knives that only applies to knives with blades over 5.5″. Based on Texas judicial precedent, blade length is measured in a straight line from the most forward part of the handle (or where that would normally be if there is no added handle to the tang of the knife) to the point of the blade.

Knife Rights will be back in Texas in 2019 to address these remaining restrictions.

BOTTOM LINE Location Restricted Knives (those with blades over 5.5″), including swords and spears,cannot be carried in the following locations:

Schools and on any passenger transportation vehicle of a school

Polling Places

Courthouses

Airports past Security Screening (all knives are already prohibited by TSA)

Racetracks

Within 1,000 feet of the premises where an Execution is being conducted, if posted

Establishments (bars/restaurants) that derive 51% or more of their income from alcohol sales and which have a RED 51% sign posted (see right)

Sporting Events (high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic sporting event)

Correctional Facilities

Hospitals

Nursing Homes

Mental Hospitals

Amusement Parks

Churches, Synagogues and Established Places of Worship.

The penalty for carry of a location restricted knife in a prohibited location is a Class C Misdemeanor except for Schools where it is 3rd-degree Felony

MINORS & Location Restricted Knives (under 18 years of age):

You cannot sell, rent, lease, loan, or give a location restricted knife (or offer to do any of those things) to anyone under 18 years old without their parent’s written permission (for selling) or effective consent (for anything besides selling). The penalty is a Class A Misdemeanor.

If you’re under 18, you may not carry a location restricted knife outside of your home, property or a motor vehicle/watercraft owned by you and under your control (or directly enroute to the motor vehicle or watercraft), unless you’re under a parent or legal guardian’s direct supervision. The penalty is a Class C Misdemeanor.

We Will Be Back!

In 2013 Knife Rights’ repeal of Texas’ switchblade ban was enacted. In 2015 we got Knife Law Preemption enacted, removing all local knife ordinances more restrictive than Texas state law. Now in 2017 we have removed all of the “illegal knives” in Texas law, finally allowing Texans the right to carry a Bowie knife, dagger and virtually any other knife. But, we are not yet finished. We will be back in two years to see about striking those last remaining minor knife restrictions in Texas. We won’t stop until Texas is a free as everyone thinks Texas is.


i always thought it was funny, i can go to a political rally with an AK, but god belp me if i show up with a baseball bat or framing hammer!
I believe now knuckles and trench knives are legal in Texas.
 

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Lets say the baseball bat is exactly the same length of the sword.
Why would you chose the bat?

Are you afraid to get blood on yourself?
Or is it that you don't want to kill anyone and think you
can just knock them out?

A sword can stab, or slash (at least a relevant sword can)
I would be interested in knowing why you would limit
yourself.
Yep. Good question. Because the sword could move many times faster and do things the bat couldn't dream of because its balance point is completely different than that of a bat.
 
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