[AZ_HighCountry]

but if sh*t truly hit the fan I want to know my primary weapon won’t fail on me. It’s also prudent, imho, to have a back up just in case

That alone tells me you are at least planning ahead. Even top tier weapons break and when they do when you need them the most and you've no backup, well, you're pretty much ...................

 

[Steve_In_29]

That alone tells me you are at least planning ahead. Even top tier weapons break and when they do when you need them the most and you've no backup, well, you're pretty much ...................

I have a rifle and three backups (all PSA) for the cost of a single higher end AR.

 

[fsrepairfabrication]

+1

That was my rationale in an earlier post. My m&p will no doubt do what it’s intended to do. My biggest concern, and the primary reason why I’ve gravitated towards a top tier brand, is the components wearing out or failing prematurely with my m&p. I don’t want to have to think about parts failing like the bcg or barrel. Now, I’m not trying to be some wannabe operator or act like it’ll be the battle of Mogadishu, but if sh*t truly hit the fan I want to know my primary weapon won’t fail on me. It’s also prudent, imho, to have a back up just in case

The rifle that I intended to be my back up got taken over by my wife so now I need a 3rd AR to be a shared backup for both of us lol

 

[Herkemer]

Cool your roll against the basic inexpensive M&P Sport. I picked one up about 5 years ago for $550 plus tax and it's been 100% reliable. Not the most accurate with my handloads, roughly 2.5 MOA but after 2500 rnds never a problem. I've never bothered to develop a handload for the rifle so accuracy may improve but for the money that rifle is a great deal considering most buyers aren't capable of sub moa shots without a prepared sandbag supported position.

2500 rounds is nothing. And most folks aren't gonna put more than 2500 rounds through a weapon in its, and their, entire life.

The point to the "Boutique" weapon is 2500 rounds in a day-week-month and another 2500 to follow that, and another to follow that without a failure..

Thats the point.

I'm actually all onboard with the M&P because if I am shooting that much, I'm probably gonna be dead in ten minutes anyway.

 

[Skynet17]

Lol. I agree that it is wise to get the best glass that you can afford.

Provided it is very sturdy if you're going to put it on a battle rifle.

 

[Skynet17]

I don't know that a heavy barrel is worth the weight.

It is worth it if you shoot a lot in a short time.

But you still need to be in excellent shape. That's one of the primary areas that "preppers", especially those over 30 😌 fail. Not even getting into some middle aged and older "preppers" who can barely hike to the mailbox. 😩 A minimal amount of extra weight from a barrel should be of no concern.

 

[Skynet17]

I've never spent $1500 for an AR-15.
To me personally, that seems like wasteful spending.

I prefer the stripped-down basic PSA AR's, fitted by me with Magpul MBUS iron sights. That, plus a light on some rifles (but not all) is all I really need.

That said, I have a green / red dot optic that came with one AR from PSA. I left it on as a co-assist / backup for the MBUS sights.

FYI, PSA uses the barrels from FN Manufacturing.
They are very high quality, military grade, 1:7 twist barrels. Never a problem in over 10 years of my personal use.

UPDATE:
Just bought a PSA SBR complete upper w/BCG & CH. It's railed on all sides and came with a Sig Sauer Romeo 2 red dot sight.

After testing the optic, it appeared to be sharp and clear, but turning on the unit was a PITA, imho. You can only turn it on by rotating the top brightness knob. There is no typical on / off button. Properly set, however, the red dot was easily seen even in bright daylight.

You can buy a decent AR for $550-ish, drop another $175 on the MBUS pop up sights and still spend less than half of the cost of the grossly inferior S&W.
Inferior due to S&W's cheap furniture amd accessories.

I don't think most people should settle for only one AR either (most don't). It is well worth having a basic AR such as a Windham Weaponry 16" with iron sights (I prefer Troy 😉 ) and a red dot around for a backup or to give to a friend, and then spending money on glass and ammo for your flagship such as an LWRC. Almost any LWRC/DD, etc is already going to have the essential factory upgrades from a traditional AR that you really NEED, including a stout 1:7 barrel. People should not get carried away to the point of imagining that life is like playing Call of Duty or Youtube Tacticool Ninja and you have to keep upgrading everything to infinity. You need something reliable, tough and accurate, and that doesn't cost a fortune. Splitting hairs above that, which won't make much difference on the battlefield. Work on your physical and mental preparedness, your rifle is already good enough if YOU are!

 

[keepitlow]

About 1.5 yrs ago I bought my first AR15, the S&W m&p sport 2, when we started to see mass riots taking place. I bought it because it was affordable and available at the time. I made a lot of upgrades to it because the stock furniture on it was garbage. With that said, I consider this rifle to be mid tier and will get the job done.

now that I’ve had time to research and review other more expensive brands it begs the question, are there diminishing returns when spending $1500+ on an AR? I understand that the more expensive brands will typically use better materials and manufacturing processes, but at the end of the day are you really getting more for your money or are you just paying for the name brand?

I’m thinking that if I do buy another AR I’d want to get either a BCM, Geiselle or Daniel Defense. All of these brands have great reputations and are mildly more affordable than say Radian or Noveske.

Stop the madness. Keep what you got and buy a good .308 or similar. It can be used for anything pretty much.

 

[ajole]

I dont think anyone is saying the m&p or equivalent is not accurate or mostly reliable. The point is when you step up a tier you get the highest level of reliability possible, and the reason why is the features/specs of those guns are clearly on another level.

The point of this thread was, at that arbitrary higher level....did doubling the price also double the reliability? Or just turn 90% reliable into 98% reliable?

That was my rationale in an earlier post. My m&p will no doubt do what it’s intended to do. My biggest concern, and the primary reason why I’ve gravitated towards a top tier brand, is the components wearing out or failing prematurely with my m&p. I don’t want to have to think about parts failing like the bcg or barrel.

The problem is...you SHOULD think about those things. It's called "prepping" for a reason, and being prepared means thinking about what if. Because even the best stuff breaks.

BUT..... if you can buy a $1000 gun that is "almost" as reliable as a $2000, (and many of us say you can) and then get a spare BCG and an oops kit for $150...you are actually better prepared than the guy that bought the $2000 gun and no longer wants to think about breakages.

Spending more only improves the chances of not having failures. It doesn't eliminate failures. Ignoring that, or refusing to acknowledge that, is something one does at their own risk...and maybe that of their family.

Now, if someone has the money to buy the $2000 AR and the spare parts and "enough ammo", whatever that means....then it's all good. Kudos to them.

But that doesn't mean the guy with two complete $600 AR's and spare parts and "enough ammo" is running behind the "preparedness curve", nor missing out and doomed to failure.

 

[Inittowinit]

But that doesn't mean the guy with two complete $600 AR's and spare parts and "enough ammo" is running behind the "preparedness curve", nor missing out and doomed to failure.

Never said it did. I was speaking about what I feel comfortable with and what works for ME. If someone has 2 ar’s that they built then good for them. I’m not making any judgement calls on what someone else buys or doesn’t buy. To each their own

 

[Disturbed70]

With the exception of my Knights and Hodge rifles, I don't think I have more than $1100 in any of my rifles. Hell, my BCMs came in at around $750 each with some savvy shopping (buying blem lowers when on sale, getting an upper when they go on sale and include a BCG and CH - Black Friday used to be a great day to buy BCM).

Where the expense comes in is the "extras." Aimpoints only get so cheap, as do Vortex Razors. Good lights, ir lasers if you run nvg's, upgraded triggers if you want them, ambi selectors/mag releases/CHs if you want them, QD mounts and swivels, good slings, and good mounts for everything. All that pushes costs up. Knowing that if you are running nvg's and ir aiming lasers, that janky bargain-basement forend is not going to do anything but **** you off...more money.

The rifle is the cheap part, even if you buy quality.

 

[Rural Buckeye Guy]

Most of the ppl I know own ARs. Alot of them made runs to Academy in Gallatin, TN for barrels of 556.....barrels. I rarely see an AR without some version of a red dot or a post or a sling. All of mine did and they were all sport 1s' Currently, I am down to 1 and (1) Kel tec, which is my weapon of preference.

I like standard calibers, currently 556, 9mm, 12g, 22. I have a few other calibers but those are my collectibles, not my workhorses. Two of them are absolute feral swine hammers. DRT machines, so I have adequate ammo stocks. Both are mil surp and a cats whisker shy of 100, in calibers specifically long pork eradication.

Other than that, my world and this state, my AO, exists within 200 yards. Past that is not my concern. Therefore, ARs are very adequate. Opinions vary.....

 

[Inittowinit]

And in my situation, hindsight is 2020. I bought my S&W on the heels of the riots, and because Scheels had them in stock. At that time I wanted something rather than nothing. With the amount of money I’ve sunk into upgrades I should’ve just bought a BCM recce rifle and called it a day, but back then supply chains were still strained.

If I could travel back in time I would’ve just spent more on a nicer rifle. I’m not rich but I’m not poor either, so spending $1000+ on a firearm is an investment. I also don’t like cheap for the sake of being cheap but ‘quality’ is such a subjective term these days that it’s sometimes hard to distinguish the good from the bad. I fully understand that training is what will keep you alive during shtf, not necessarily the rifle you’re using.

 

[ajole]

Never said it did. I was speaking about what I feel comfortable with and what works for ME. If someone has 2 ar’s that they built then good for them. I’m not making any judgement calls on what someone else buys or doesn’t buy. To each their own

OK...but the point was....the idea that spending more makes you immune to failures is a false sense of security, and in many (not you) it's expressed as a laughable sense of superiority.

 

[Rural Buckeye Guy]

I will never pooh pooh quality, that's just idiotic. These have always just been tools to me, harbor frieght level tools. Functional. Adequate. Not hierlooms.

I bought mine in 2011, with an eye towards firepower for the short term, in multiples, and the S&W sport 1s were on sale for a really great price. I opted to order (4) for the comparible price of 1.5, and get the whole crew up to speed at once. I added the rest over time, then sold or gifted them. Did the same with 38 revolvers, same reason.

I wanted alot of barrels pointed if needed. Plan for the worse, hope for the best. Even as adults, they still have thier bags, thier pistols and active pantries. That spells success in RBG land. Each of those ARs went out with (12) mags, a red dot (R5), a sling, a forward grip and 1k rounds. Training if they needed it., safety, shoot and scoot, transitions, reloads, cleaning. None needed it. Another success.

My wife is convinced that I truly believe in mad max, I dont, I just roll heavy and trust in human nature, warts and all.

 

[fsrepairfabrication]

The point of this thread was, at that arbitrary higher level....did doubling the price also double the reliability? Or just turn 90% reliable into 98% reliable?

I would contest that its based on round count and the conditions its used in. At 500 rounds, probably not that different, at 1000, maybe. 5000? 10,000? How long before the barrel is shot out?

If you dont shoot your rifle enough to find out how long it will last you just dont know. What i do know is I intentionally went thru 2000 rounds in the last 3 months without cleaning or adding lube with no failure. That is with a rifle that has a round count approaching 10,000.

What would be cool is if a few members wanted to burn some ammo for science and see if their brand of choice could achieve that mark. It would definitely be interesting

 

[Skynet17]

And in my situation, hindsight is 2020. I bought my S&W on the heels of the riots, and because Scheels had them in stock. At that time I wanted something rather than nothing. With the amount of money I’ve sunk into upgrades I should’ve just bought a BCM recce rifle and called it a day, but back then supply chains were still strained.

If I could travel back in time I would’ve just spent more on a nicer rifle. I’m not rich but I’m not poor either, so spending $1000+ on a firearm is an investment. I also don’t like cheap for the sake of being cheap but ‘quality’ is such a subjective term these days that it’s sometimes hard to distinguish the good from the bad. I fully understand that training is what will keep you alive during shtf, not necessarily the rifle you’re using.

If you had needed the S&W to protect your life at that time, it would have been priceless.

My very first AR was bought years ago back during the Peaceful Years (remember those??! ) before our entire civilization had devolved into whatever you call it today. I bought it after shooting my friend's and being amazed at how much more I liked it than AKs at moderate to long range (for obvious reasons). Just a basic Bushmaster with detachable carry handle and M4 iron sights, but it was very accurate and runs like a top, still have it in original form. I keep it clean/lubed and never skimp on mags or ammo. I use well broken in Magpul, DD or Lancer mags, and high quality brass case ammo.

I'd really like to get a full vintage Vietnam style carry handle AR with 20" modern barrel (1:7), which seems to be a thing now. Just leave it iron sights and enjoy the considerable ballistic advantages of having the original barrel length to maximize the caliber with little fuss. Not every AR has to be Full Ninja with accessories hanging off every rail.

 

[ajole]

I would contest that its based on round count and the conditions its used in. At 500 rounds, probably not that different, at 1000, maybe. 5000? 10,000? How long before the barrel is shot out?

If you dont shoot your rifle enough to find out how long it will last you just dont know. What i do know is I intentionally went thru 2000 rounds in the last 3 months without cleaning or adding lube with no failure. That is with a rifle that has a round count approaching 10,000.

What would be cool is if a few members wanted to burn some ammo for science and see if their brand of choice could achieve that mark. It would definitely be interesting

I agree, but….
I’d be less worried about the barrel, and more worried about the bolt parts, and as you are looking at, how it handles a “lack of maintenance”.👍

 

[273andme]

I have a rifle and three backups (all PSA) for the cost of a single higher end AR.

Great to have redundancy but if S really HTF no one is grabbing 4 rifles to lug around. IMO that redundancy is better placed in common failure parts. Bolts springs etc.

 

[273andme]

2500 rounds is nothing. And most folks aren't gonna put more than 2500 rounds through a weapon in its, and their, entire life.

IDK if that is an accurate statement on the low end anyone I know that owns an AR puts 250 rnds a month that hits your 2500 mark in less than a year. maybe that just people I know and meet at the ranges I go to.