Too much wasted powder too big of flash. The heat and pressure will burn up the baffles in a suppressor.

 

If you are thinking .223, of course

But, if you are thinking 300blk, that is where the pistol set up shines, more powerful than the 223 supersonic, Still cycles suppressed, shooting supersonic through the suppressor is No problem as the 300bll is much lower pressure than the .308 suppressors are designed to withstand, uses all your 223 mags. Shoots moa out of the box. Really light, no recoil, especially with the can.


Sent my sbr paperwork in but in the meantime this has become my predator pistol,

 

Cons:

• Not sure how comfortable the Sig brace would be after, say, a carbine course.
• The ATF "may" change its mind about the legality of said item.
• It looks uglier than a regular stock?
• (You can see there are not many substantial cons).
  -Don't forget that 5.56/223 "Killing Power" (Man I hate that phrase) rely on barrel length

So who else is a fan of the AR pistol? I am building mine now, just got the brace and buffer tube; my LPK & JP buffer spring are enroute and the stripped lower is on order. I am planning for a 12.5" upper as this will work best should I go the suppressed route.

^ You forgot the big one.
I've had some experience with short AR's... I am not impressed.
Now if you want to go 300 Blk (And deal with those +/-)....

 

I love my KelTec LRP-16. I have fired groups of around one inch at 100 yards. With a 9 1/2 inch barrel, it does have a big flash and report and it also loses some energy because of the shorter barrel. But, it is smaller and easier to use than an AR in a confined space such as a hallway. It also uses AR 15 mags which are cheap and easy to find.

 

The PLR 16 is not an AR pistol and should not be put in the same category as one. Yes, some similarities, but not an AR pistol. You want to buy mine? I did not think it was all that it was cracked up to be when I first sought to buy it. It has its place, but my other tools get far more field use.

 

yes you can legally avoid having to register it as a SBR but the ATF sometimes changes their minds on things such as this. AR pistols are fun but i dont see much use for one unless your doing security detail and in a vehicle. they could be a good home defense weapon with a can on the end because firing one indoors would not only kill your vision but also your hearing, 2 very important senses. a 5.56 pistol just seems to end up not looking so great when you factor in the loss of velocity since velocity is its strong point in a rifle.

 

Nope, I think that they will remain mostly a novelty and bought by just a few people to fill a specific niche.

 

A small AR manufacturer I know told me they are selling more AR pistols than rifles FWIW.

 

I'm not sure about the future, per se, but the things OP mentioned are pretty much spot on. They're much more useful than they were five or ten years ago.

In 5.56, shorter barrels have more minuses, but 11-12 inches? Now you're looking at a short rifle rather than a pistol for all practical purposes, and they perform like it.
And 300BLK, well now you're talking. Of course, the 300 really comes into itself with the addition of a suppressor, but supersonics are pretty awesome too.
I have a 10.3 300BLK, and it's a great size for handling in tighter spaces. Lighter, less weight up front, still good ballistics. I'm biased, but I built it because I like what it offers, not the other way around.

 

Having had an AR pistol before the '94 ban, and having built a few for customers, I can say a few things about them.

They are loud, loud, loud.
And did I say loud? I couldn't hear myself.

Properly used with a well designed sling, they can be handy for close quarters, but did I mention how loud they are, even worse inside.

Every so often I miss the one I had.
Then common sense kicks back in.
They are a little too touchy about gas pressure and ammo.

 

So, seriously, are they a little loud?
JK, Yes, they are crazy loud, I think they are louder than the AK pistols. (Which are still a little loud also.) I'm in the process of trying to build an AR pistol so I may know a lot more pretty soon.:thumb:

 

Agree that the SIG brace was a game changer, still amazed by the ATF decision.

I do see a lot of utility in them though, brace or not, even in 5.56, assuming you're running a 10" barrel or better. I've done some chrono testing on my 10.5 inchers, and even the most underpowered .223 I have found (Federal bulk) is still over 2500 fps. Even at that reduced speed, a soft point load will be quite effective for self defense, and of course NATO spec 5.56 is well on up the scale so that FMJ can still do its designed thang.

In either case, the force on target is going to well exceed any common handgun caliber, with the added advantage that quick accurate COM shots up to 100 yards are quickly achievable. Your normal concealed carry heater can't compare in that regard either.

There are also significant legal carry/possession advantages of a handgun in numerous states.

Here's my dolled up pistol/firearm, and yes, it is functionally a non-NFA SBR (and before the inevitable hue and cry from someone, a VFG is fine if OAL is 26" or more):

However, there's a lot going for a KISS AR pistol too, just in compact thin nature of the beast, and the buffer tube laid up alongside cheek for third point of contact gives you at least 75% of the stability for precise accuracy as does a brace or stock. As far as quick COM type accuracy, there's little functional diff.

I keep this in car behind the seat:

In this:

So even without the boon of the SIG brace, there's certainly a realistic purpose for an AR pistol, even in 5.56. And of course a .300blk version has some significant advantages also, though at this point in practical terms only reloaders need apply IMNSHO.

Oh, and finally, shouldn't this be in the pistol/revolver forum?

- OS

 

i guess it depends on what caliber of AR pistol... intermediate burn rate powders used in most rifle calibers will loose some of their efficiency...

i assembled a 16" 300 blk with a yhm barrel, and have thought about going for a 300 pistol now that i have invested in the caliber... i dont know that the are the "future" though... i think there will always be need for rifles and carbines.

 

Your average first AR15 buyer will stick with the standard 16inch gun.

But since the Sig Brace's inception and since the ATF letter stating it can be shouldered AR pistols have really taken off. It has increased the numbers of Ar15 pistols sold/built exponentially and even though I don't have data to prove it I believe they will become a significant part of the AR15 market(5%).

AR15 pistols were almost taboo and considered range guns at best just 3 years ago. Then people started getting creative with their techniques and while they were becoming acceptable but still were considered to have a lot of downsides. Now they are mainstream and lots of former AR pistol naysayers have them for truck guns.

 

Your average first AR15 buyer will stick with the standard 16inch gun.

But since the Sig Brace's inception and since the ATF letter stating it can be shouldered AR pistols have really taken off. It has increased the numbers of Ar15 pistols sold/built exponentially and even though I don't have data to prove it I believe they will become a significant part of the AR15 market(5%).

AR15 pistols were almost taboo and considered range guns at best just 3 years ago. Then people started getting creative with their techniques and while they were becoming acceptable but still were considered to have a lot of downsides. Now they are mainstream and lots of former AR pistol naysayers have them for truck guns.

Another positive is that they are still legally pistols. Which means many can, at least in many states, have them concealed, within reach of the driver, and loaded, legally. Great pros for a truck gun.

ETA: Metcalf just said that, didn't he....

 

the AR I am building now is a 10.5" bbl on a pistol lower with sigtac brace, and since it classified as just a "Firearm", I can throw a VFG on it.

 

But always check the OAL of the "firearm" before arbitrarily throwing on that VFG. With a 10.5" barrel, you should be fine.. Shorter barrel - maybe NOT. The OAL is supposed to be over 26" in order to put on a VFG on a firearm without additional paperwork... I could be wrong;

 

I have been debating piecing together a pistol AR for a while now. I just happen to have an extra lower or 2 laying around. It just might be my next project!

 

I just jumped on the 'pistol' bus lately and just got done building this one...



This one is in 300 blackout with a 10.5" barrel and KAK flash can. I used the KAK buffer tube that is specific to the Sig Arm Brace. All in all I couldn't be happier.

The main bonus to me is that it is legally a pistol. In my state that means it can be loaded in the vehicle, concealed in the vehicle, and concealed on your person if you really wanted to go there. Being a pistol also eliminates a lot of the problems that you would have with an SBR and going back and forth over state lines or moving to another state.

Also, my understanding is that once you have one pistol you can generally have as many different uppers around with varying barrel lengths.

 

Let's not forget ak pistols with side folding sig braces.... 7.62x39 is still effective out of shorter barrels plus since it's an ak you can get the folding stock.

 

Yeah, I've got a PAP M92 pistol also, and thought about doing a buffer tube adapter and SB47 brace on it too, but think I'm just gonna leave it as is. Though I'd probably doll it up too if I didn't have the AR pistols.

And it's certainly true that 7.62x39 doesn't loose as much terminal zap as 5.56 from same length short barrel.

- OS

 

That is what my research said too.

Unless the muzzle device is fixed the classification doesn't change. The length without muzzle device has to be longer than 26" to slip into the 'other' classification.

My solution was to use an AFG which is not 'vertical' so it skirts the pistol restrictions for that part.

 

AR Pistol Choices

Great thread OP :thumb:



I'm on the fence. I'd appreciate any criticisms/input.



Build an AR Pistol in 5.56 or adopt yet another new caliber that performs well with shorter barrels, yup, the 300 ACC



Does a 5.56 round from a 12" or less barrel make sense?

Does gearing up for another caliber make sense?

Is an AR pistol worth the effort and $....

What will I achieve with an AR pistol that I can't already get with the "regular" pistols and rifles that I already own?


just some thoughts that I'm wrestling with.

Thanks all :thumb:

 

Great thread OP :thumb:



I'm on the fence. I'd appreciate any criticisms/input.



Build an AR Pistol in 5.56 or adopt yet another new caliber that performs well with shorter barrels, yup, the 300 ACC



Does a 5.56 round from a 12" or less barrel make sense?

Does gearing up for another caliber make sense?

Is an AR pistol worth the effort and $....

What will I achieve with an AR pistol that I can't already get with the "regular" pistols and rifles that I already own?


just some thoughts that I'm wrestling with.

Thanks all :thumb:

Not being a fan of .223, and not being ready to add .300 BLK to the list...

I just bought an AK Pistol.

 

Can anyone confirm or deny if the sig brace is legal on an ar pistol WITH a law folding stock adapter?

 

I dont see why not, a member here built two AK pistols with folding SB15 braces:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=353518

 

I'm aware of the benefits and limitations of the different rounds that one could use in an AR pistol. I am sure the majority of them will be 5.56, 300 BLK and 6.8, and yes, I agree that 5.56 owners should stick with longer barrels to maximize effective range. I don't know why anyone would buy a 7" AR upper for 5.56, yet there they are on Gunbroker.

Anyone on the fence, go for it! I bet you will find yourself grabbing that "pistol" more and more often. I hate to admit the one I am building will be owned forever as it's construction will be "prohibitively expensive" (but I'm putting in a Wilson TTU). I also ordered the new KX5 that I intend to have peeking out of an M-LOK handguard.

 

Please do not turn this into a caliber debate or AR vs AK debate. Thanks.

Is the AR Pistol the future? Thanks to the Sig Brace by KAK Industries, gun owners can legally avoid an NFA trust ($200-$500) as well as the NFA tax for a short-barreled rifle ($200) and the onerous waiting period (5-7 months by e-file, up to 9 months by paper). And if you DO want a legal SBR at some point, while you wait you can continue to LEGALLY use your arm brace as a hasty shoulder stock.

Pros:

• All the benefits of an SBR minus $400 to $700 dollars.
  Not hardly.
• Not subject to a Federal database.
  Yes it is. You can't buy them from a vending machine...
• More maneuverable for home defense.
  So is a rifle or shotgun, SBR/SBS or not, when both are extended to the full firing position, the AR pistol muzzle is actually further from the body.
• A rifle caliber pistol beats a pistol caliber pistol every day.
  True.
• Handy excuse to buy more rifles - right?
  You just said it was a pistol...

Cons:

• Not sure how comfortable the Sig brace would be after, say, a carbine course.
• The ATF "may" change its mind about the legality of said item.
• It looks uglier than a regular stock?
• (You can see there are not many substantial cons).

So who else is a fan of the AR pistol? I am building mine now, just got the brace and buffer tube; my LPK & JP buffer spring are enroute and the stripped lower is on order. I am planning for a 12.5" upper as this will work best should I go the suppressed route.

It's a solution for disabled people, or people who want to go the SBR route and shoot their weapon while waiting. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

^ Add ease of travel without NFA papers, and Yes, (if you by the pistol Pvt sale) you CAN get it without the 4473 (Fed Database)

So is a rifle or shotgun, SBR/SBS or not, when both are extended to the full firing position, the AR pistol muzzle is actually further from the body.

Lost me here?

 

^ Add ease of travel without NFA papers, and Yes, (if you by the pistol Pvt sale) you CAN get it without the 4473 (Fed Database)



Lost me here?

True on travel/private sale!

Okay, let's do a little experiment. Take your 16.1" AK-47 and shoulder it. Walk forward with it until the muzzle hits the wall. That's how far from your body that weapon is when you are using it "properly".

Now assume a shooting stance with your 7.5" AR pistol with SIG brace. Do the same walk toward the wall until you hit it with the muzzle.

Using the rifle, I think you will find you are standing closer to that wall. Pictures if I'm wrong...

 

Been meaning to put one of these together for a while now. Already piecing it together as I type. Just a little something to add to the collection.

It looks like I will finally be able to make appropriate use of my Ferfrans CBQ!!!!

I was debating between a few different uppers but I settled on a Hardened Arms 300 BLK upper.... I have had quite a few positive referrals for Hardened Arms. I am sure it doesn't compare to any of my KAC uppers but it should do just fine!

 

KAC's 300BLK upper is an outsorced Noveske barreled unit. Blech!

 

The crickets are loud at Unobtainium's place.

- OS

 

LOL and that don't happen often, must be a storm brewing.

.

 

Personal preference but, if I'm going ultra-compact I'm going with an MP5. Not b/c it is necessarily better, I just prefer (over very short ARs) them and I'm proficient with them.

 

Not to mention the advantages of being able to attach a can and still be compact enough for close quarters work. Which is the main reason I want to build some.

In .300 black I figure it to be a great truck gun.

Be Prepared,
OBW

 

Put this together today. Range toy. Should be fun.

 

NICE!!! :thumb: 10.5-11.5"???
That's exactly what I intend to build a dozen of.

PM me if you don't mind, how you spec'd that out.
I've not yet built an AR pistol.
I've checked out quite a few that have been popping up on Armslist lately and they want rediculous money for them.
I could buy some DDM4's for less than what some of these jackwagons are asking for their pistols.

OBW
.