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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I just waded my way through the entire "gold is worthless" thread, and granted, some good points were made, on both sides. But, while the time worn "you can't eat gold" argument has merits, well,at least in a literal sense, it really doesn't hold water under scrutiny, because you CAN eat what gold will buy you. And we can speculate and pontificate all we want, but it's difficult to argue with 5000+ years of human history. Oddly,there seems to be something almost cosmic or primordial about the allure of gold, somehow elevating it above all other precious substances. There almost has to be more to it than "it has value simply because people say it has value, just like the dollar", to paraphrase what one post claimed. Don't ask me what or why, I'm just making an observation.
Anyway,I really feel gold and silver are good investments right now, among the ONLY good investments,actually, as most investments simply leave you with nothing more than a piece of paper. And I'm not alone in this opinion. I just read where Iran recently bought 75 billion in physical gold , and a little while back,financier Warren Buffet bought 130 million ounces of silver, and these are just a couple examples.
Now don't misunderstand, I'm not saying folks should run out and invest everything they have in PM's, and I'm definately not saying they should buy PM's in lieu of other vital preps like food,water, fuel,or guns and ammo. But once these basics have been covered, as I, and I believe most of you have already done, then dropping that spare cash on some gold or silver is IMO a wiser option that dropping it on something completely redunadant and un-neccesary like a fourth assault rifle.YMMV.:D:
 

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Anyway,I really feel gold and silver are good investments right now, among the ONLY good investments,actually, as most investments simply leave you with nothing more than a piece of paper.
I think this is where people get the wrong ideas about precious metals... Don't think of it as an investment. Think of it as a store of wealth - as a counter against inflation.

If you had to choose one method to store your money, in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation, what would it be? Paper money? Bits of data? Or gold - something tangible that seems to have had value throughout the history of man?

I agree - somewhat - with the idea that bartering will become an important method of acquiring items.

But - will the bank* take a barrel of apples, four raccoon pelts and a box of .22 LR as a mortgage payment?

As long as people need to trade items, there will be money in some form or another.


*Yes - there will always be banks... If one folds another will buy it's assets and pick up where it left off. It'll be like the Old West, where Ma and Pa get the farm sold out from under them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I see your point, but it's a fine one. If gold allows my money to keep up with infaltion, it has essentially increased in value, and by definition, makes it an investment. Right ?
 

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I see your point, but it's a fine one. If gold allows my money to keep up with infaltion, it has essentially increased in value, and by definition, makes it an investment. Right ?
No - adjusted for inflation, it would have the same value.

Remember grandma saying that she could go to the movies for a nickel? What do you think the price of gold was then? When my grandmother was a "girl" - it was somewhere around $20 to $35 an ounce. Now it costs me $13 to go see a movie, and the price of gold is somewhere around $830 an ounce.

The average new car in 1930 cost around $640 dollars. At approx $21 per ounce, that car would cost around 30 ounces of gold.

The average new car in 2008 costs a little under $29,000. At the current $836 an ounce, that new car would cost around 34 ounces of gold.

Maybe cars weren't the best example - but they do help illustrate the point.

So gold is not an investment... It's a device to store wealth.
 

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"Oddly,there seems to be something almost cosmic or primordial about the allure of gold"

yes and remember that gold is the best electrical conductor. also the most malleable of all metals. and yes, through the ages people have eaten it for various reasons.
 

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dont fall for this trap...

No - adjusted for inflation, it would have the same value.

Remember grandma saying that she could go to the movies for a nickel? What do you think the price of gold was then? When my grandmother was a "girl" - it was somewhere around $20 to $35 an ounce. Now it costs me $13 to go see a movie, and the price of gold is somewhere around $830 an ounce.

The average new car in 1930 cost around $640 dollars. At approx $21 per ounce, that car would cost around 30 ounces of gold.

The average new car in 2008 costs a little under $29,000. At the current $836 an ounce, that new car would cost around 34 ounces of gold.

Maybe cars weren't the best example - but they do help illustrate the point.

So gold is not an investment... It's a device to store wealth.

folks, dont fall for this "gold is worthless" trap

if you haven't seen it yet, go to
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
and watch the video on what money is and why gold/silver have value


but put into simple counter-arguments

1. gold will always be worth something as long as the world is more advanced than the bronze age. it was worth something then, it will be worth something in the future. maybe not exactly dollar-for-dollar purchasing power but if gold is only worth a week's food after TSHTF then what a plasma TV worth?

and even if the USA is a barren wasteland, the rest of the world will still want it. you could buy goods from overseas and have them brought here or, even still, use PMs to escape the country

for PMs to be worthless, the whole @#@# world would have to be in the dark ages

2. you can't eat gold therefore its worthless - we should buy food, water, bullets, tools, etc. instead because it has utility. well, that is mostly correct. you should not have just gold/silver before your preps are in place. you gotta eat to stay alive and have arms to defend yourself.

answer me this... what will be the currency in the town square in 10 years after TSHTF????

you stored food will be rotted by then, water is gone, bullets may not work or may be hard to trade (you got pistol ammo, everyone else has rifles), tools will be worn or should be by then

it could be something simple like salt, furs, nails, seeds like were used for many years or something we have lost the ability to make like CDs, bottlecaps, etc but they are always bulky, subject to the environmental damage, etc

society will evolve its own need for a currency for convenience and as a unit of account, that is long lasting, maintains it value when split into smaller pieces, and has some inherit rarity - not leaves or sand {otherwise people will just gather leaves and sand which will make an apple cost 1 ton of sand}

i'll admit we could be wrong. the new coin of the realm could be aluminum or copper depending how the dice get rolled in the future but bartering only works when both parties think about their items in a common term - even if its hours of sweaty toil. a currency will always appear in any tool based society.

the solid bet is on gold/silver if only because the ladies like the bling :D:

i could post more but it's late. if this doesn't convince you, just post a reply question and i will help you smackdown the haters. just watch the money videos first....
 

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folks, dont fall for this "gold is worthless" trap
I never once said it was worthless. It's just not an investment as much as it is a medium to store wealth. Relative to other commodities, gold does not increase in value - it simply retains it's value.
 

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IMHO you can offer me all the gold in the world in a SHTF scenario and i still wont trade gold for food, medicine or ammo or anything else of value. so yes i say that gold only has value to me if i say that it does. not that you say that it has value. since im not planning on making a crown. you cant eat gold well i guess you could make golden bullets, but what would it do for bullets????
 

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I don't invest in gold or silver. I BOUGHT kruggerands and silver ingots. I may not earn anything on them, that wasn't the point. I have them so, that if the need arises, I can purchase what I need when I can't barter for it. Also, I may have to bribe my way out of something.
 

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gold is worhtless in the long run.for right now gold is on high..sorta...just a few weeks ago it hit something like 1050/ounce.now it is around 830's.sooo if you boguht some you lost money already.it has not been that long ago gold was 350ish.going on memory..and that could be bad.silver was worthless...just a few weeks ago silver was 19 somehting now it is under 10.anything on the stockmarket is a gamble..plain and simple.for now gold is being driven up in price buy people buying it.also take gold to a bank...bet you cant pay a house payment with it.for now as long as our govt is in charge...well the worhtless paper is "legal for all debt both private and public".the real trick is to buy stuff and then sell it off and put real cash and goods in your over all stash for life without getting caught holding the bag of any worthless stocks,bonds,gold,silver or what ever it is. i sold all my silver for top dollar awhile back and took the profit and ran.now where is the next place to make a few dollars??? gold is to high priced now for most normal working folks....it is not a good investment at this current price.
 

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just look at this gold chart.look at the time span from about 79 to late 05 ish.its around350 to 450 a ounce.now look at the spike in price after this...this is why gold is not a good investment now.because people are creating a bubble..the same as wtih houseing,gas and etc.the bubble will break..you just got to ask yourself..when and how much do i want to loose.most ordinary working people cant even afford one ounce of gold a month.much less any signifficent investment of gold at 800 plus a ounce.average working class people would be better off with paying off debt,groceries ,guns and ammo,seeds,tools.there are some possible very good deals in stock market right now...if you want to gamble some.check the chart out..people forget fast what something really cost in a short period of time.


http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx
 

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No - adjusted for inflation, it would have the same value.

Remember grandma saying that she could go to the movies for a nickel? What do you think the price of gold was then? When my grandmother was a "girl" - it was somewhere around $20 to $35 an ounce. Now it costs me $13 to go see a movie, and the price of gold is somewhere around $830 an ounce.

The average new car in 1930 cost around $640 dollars. At approx $21 per ounce, that car would cost around 30 ounces of gold.

The average new car in 2008 costs a little under $29,000. At the current $836 an ounce, that new car would cost around 34 ounces of gold.

Maybe cars weren't the best example - but they do help illustrate the point.

So gold is not an investment... It's a device to store wealth.
thats a great example thanx :thumb:
 

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i think you should have a little bit of gold. but on the other hand if you buy now alot of items that can be traded you could become a merchant and gain ALOT of gold. think back in the gold rush days of the U.S. the ones who really got rich wasnt the one useing a shovel (miners), it was the ppl who sold the shovel to the miners,they are the wons who got rich so setting up your self now to become a merchant does deem merit. but if you dont want to be a merchant, i still would have some silver/gold you may need it when the country begins to recover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
OK, I agree now that gold isn't technically an investment, as "an investment" is, technically, something that increases in value and/or makes money (dividends).
Yet, I think the standard this would have to be measured against would be the proverbial "money in the mattress". If you just hide your cash,say a thousand dollars, you are losing buying power and therefore losing money. 10 years later, you're able to purchase less with this thousand dollars. Yet, had you bought a thousand dollars worth of gold, your buying power will have remained (more or less) the same after many years. The person that hid his money has essentially lost money, while the person that "invested" in gold has increased buying power over the person that didn't. So, in a literal sense, the gold buyer now has more money than the person that bought none, which, as I said earlier, makes gold,by definition, an investment.
Still, I see your point, I think we're mostly arguing semantics here ( and admittedly, I ain't no economist ! ) :thumb:
 

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IMHO you can offer me all the gold in the world in a SHTF scenario and i still wont trade gold for food, medicine or ammo or anything else of value. so yes i say that gold only has value to me if i say that it does. not that you say that it has value. since im not planning on making a crown. you cant eat gold well i guess you could make golden bullets, but what would it do for bullets????
and thats a fair statement for personal choice - probably the thinking for most people on this forum - and good advice in general

however if anyone doubts the validity of gold even in the worst economic situation, do this research

google "argentina 2001 collapse" and see how PMs were the only currency that people would accept when barter wasn't possible

check into what the nazis did first when they rolled into a town in WW2 - straight for the banks to get the gold

look at zimbabwe's situation. PM coins are worth more than life there.

and why???

PMs make barter with everyone possible - not necessarily fair market value - but a deal can happen

you need medicine after the SHTF??? get the word out that you want meds for an ounce of gold and i promise you will get those meds soon.

otherwise, you will have to give up your food, ammo, etc to get those meds because its the only thing you have left of value

gold & silver are good to have not only to store wealth but to use as barter when you don't want to give up your food, ammo, etc

gotta think about both sides of the deal. if you wouldn't give up stuff, then why would anyone else???

always gonna be something you didnt prep for because you didnt think about it or cant afford it now but you will need later

PMs get you thru the dark times by giving you options while preserving your wealth before TSHTF

also if it gets very bad, you can always use you PMs to escape your geography i.e. book passage on a boat out of your area to somewhere stable because in that location PMs still have a value so the skipper will be glad to take your gold/silver coins in exchange for a nice seat
 

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In 1988 a guy I knew died. He owned a pawn shop. His widow did alright with insurance and a settlement. I was able to buy every gun he had for $50.00 a piece. My wife thought I was completly crazy and was pi33ed off at the money I wasted. At todays price I could sell them and be very well off, BUT, I bought those firearms for the same reason I bought PM's. Someday they will come in handy, if not, my Grandson gets them.
 
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