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Only Half Human
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Domestic Militarization Comes to San Bernardino County
Posted on 2008 December 14

The Marine Corps Air and Ground Combat Center (MCAGCC) Provost Marshal (head of a unit of military police) and the local California Highway Patrol office will begin working together 12/12 — and through the holiday season — in a joint effort to reduce accidents and drinking and driving. The combined mutual cooperation between the Marine Corps Military Police and State enforcement officers will begin somewhere along Highway 62. The CHP will set up DUI roadblocks with the presence of Military Police. A violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.


Gary Daigneault discussed the ramifications of this joint effort today on his 107.7 F.M. Talk Back show. Mr. Daigneault and his callers seemed to be very concerned. On its face, one may think this is a good idea. But it’s not. I agree with Mr. Daigneault and his callers. Most of which seemed to think this is a very bad idea. Mr. Daigneault contacted a Constitutional Law expert, and the attorney informed him this is absolutely unconstitutional. It’s NOT permitted under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, 8 U.S.C. § 1385. It’s my understanding that the Constitutional Law expert said CHP officers could be arrested out there working with the Military Police because it’s a “felony.”

Democracy depends upon abiding by the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, I challenge anyone to go out there and put a citizens arrest of the CHP officers, then call 9-1-1 and have a sheriff come out and take charge of your prisoner. Just kidding, of course, but a very brazen citizen legally could attempt to such a thing. But don’t even think about it.

Many of his callers vocalized that this joint effort or mutual cooperation between the military and the CHP is going to be very intimidating. They (as I) are very concerned the CHP is going through with this action. It’s not really clear what the specific role of the Military Police will be… To assist; to observe; to train; to make a strong military presence; to take charge of military offenders detained by the CHP? Nonetheless, whatever, it’s unconstitutional; it’s a felony. I contacted the Morongo CHP office.* The dispatcher said the program will be in effect tonight. When I asked here were it was going to be, she said call back tonight after 7:00 P.M. But I politely protested, these DUI check stops are public. She said I have to speak with CHP Public Affairs officer after seven.* A call to the CHP Public Affairs Officer’s number* after seven got a recorded message to call from 9-5 during business hours. Query: why wasn’t I told that?

By the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, 20 Stat. 152, 18 U.S.C. § 1385, it was provided that “it shall NOT (emphasis added) be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress… .” The effect of this prohibition, however, was largely nullified by a ruling of the Attorney General “that by Revised Statutes 5298 and 5300 [10 U.S.C. §§ 332, 334] the military forces, under the direction of the President, could be used to assist a marshal. 16 Ops. Atty. Gen. 162.” B. RICH, THE PRESIDENTS AND CIVIL DISORDER 196 n.21 (1941).

Okay, as far as I know the President has not given direction to the local CHP to deploy the USMC on public roads in order to setup a military presence during routine DUI check stops in the Basin. It’s not allowed. Whoever came up with plan in the CHP in my opinion is abusing their powers. Where is the public necessity or authority to do this? There is none — unless the Commander in Chief made the call. It’s also my opinion, the CHP has made a very bad choice in their joint venture with the Marine Corps. Though I have intrinsic belief that the CHP has the very best of intentions, however, good intentions does not override the U.S. Constitution.

I know the Marine Corps has the best of intentions too. But the best of intentions is not cause to trump the Constitution.

Late this afternoon, I spoke with the Provost Marshal office, Corporal Knuesn. He indicated this may happen. I then spoke with the MCAGCC Public Affairs Chief, Gunny Sgt. Chris Cox.** He was very cooperative and informative about the mutual efforts of the Military Police and the CHP: “They will be working closely over the month to cut down of traffic accidents,” he said, “the Military Police will observe DUI check points and watch for their own guys. The intent is to have Military Presence out there.”

Gunny Cox explains that Hwy. 62 is one of the most dangerous highways out here. No doubt it is.

The Public Affairs Chief also explained, “they will not participate [assist the CHP] because they are not concerned [lack of jurisdiction] with California law.” I must say, Gunny Sgt. Cox is one extremely nice guy. And his good intentions — to save his guys from injuries or worse — was certainly manifested. May good fortune be with this Marine.

It’s little encroachments like this that undermine the Constitution. Then one day you wake up, and it gone. [See Franklin quote, infra-]. I can see numerous scenarios during those DUI check stops. To name a few: The Military Police go to the aid of the CHP to take down a civilian bad guy. A drunken teen. Unruly tweakers. Will the Military Police be armed? Do they have any sort orders of engagements?

* ** The bottom line: I urge anyone and everyone who believes in the Constitution, United States Codes, and Posse Comitatus — to do something! What can you do? To begin with, I suggest you contact the local Joshua Tree CHP Public Affairs Officer, Officer McLoud, at: 760. 366.3707 and voice your concern. Further, you can contact the MCAGCC Public Affairs Chief on the base at: 760.830.5476 or 760. 830.6213. Moreover, contact the Provost Marshal office at: 760.830.4215.

Voice your concerns. That’s just a start. Contact state officials and legislatures. Write letters to the editor.

Thank you, Branson Hunter

“What type of government,” a woman asks, “have you given us?” To which Benjamin Franklin replies: ” A democratic Republic, madam, if you can keep it.” — “Benjamin Franklin: An American Life. Walter Isaacson (2003)
 

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DIY RPG's
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have to call my dad to see if he sees any of this going on as he lives in riverside of San Bernardino County California
 

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Doesn't really bother me. At least they have more training in using their weapons.

Get the drunk drivers.

Sure, I see the potential for the slippery slope leading down to the parade of horribles, but this is just walking to the top of the slope, not even on it, IMO.
 

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have to call my dad to see if he sees any of this going on as he lives in riverside of San Bernardino County California
OUCH! Riverside...double-plus-ungood!
Lots of gang activity there...if they send troops there, they'll be outnumbered and outgunned...:eek:
 

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DIY RPG's
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yeah lived there for 2 years if your white you know where you can and can't go without a good chance of getting shot at. same for if your black of hispanic. really bad was moreno valley which the part of riverside i lived on was less than a mile from and also how i relearned my spanish by the way.
 

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Doesn't really bother me. At least they have more training in using their weapons.

Get the drunk drivers.

Sure, I see the potential for the slippery slope leading down to the parade of horrible, but this is just walking to the top of the slope, not even on it, IMO.
If the local sheriff/Chief of police cannot keep a lid on drunk driving then FIRE his A$$, and elect/appoint someone who can.

We should not fool ourselves (unless you are trolling) . This is on the slope. Here is a possible scenario with a few steps taken out and a short time line since I do not feel like typing more than I have, but you get the idea.

Year 1: Military catches drunk drivers close to military base on X-mas

Year 2: Worked so well... maybe we should have the military catch drunk drivers all over the city on X-mas.

Year 3: It is working so well... Maybe we should have them protect us all through the holiday season Thanksgiving-> X-mas

Year 4: Why should we only be protected during he holidays.. it s so safe... lets have it year round.

Year 5: Since they are working so well together, it sure seems inefficient to have the police and the army doing the same job. Maybe we should try merging the police into the army. Since it will be more efficient. For the children.

Year 6: We don't need locally elected sheriffs anymore and no longer have police that live in, or are from, the community. They live on the military base. Much more efficient. Just like Belfast in the 1980s when the English used to beat the sh*t out of the Irish on a daily basis. (first hand knowledge on this one)
_________________________________________________________________________________

Consider the below video from the Cranberries. During the video shoot in Belfast the a patrol of the English army showed up pointing guns at the production crew asking what they were doing there. The producer said they were making a documentary about the English presence in Ireland and asked if they could film them on patrol. They Brits agreed, it just a coincidence that the video as for a song that is about military policing/oppression of the Irish. The guys in inform are not actors.. they are the real thing doing there daily job.


True the cause of the English presence there is not to stop drunk driving, the cause is centuries old, but any army is a broadsword, not a scalpel.

Do you want to see guys walking around in full battle kit in your neighborhood?


Again... If the local sheriff/Chief of police cannot keep a lid on drunk driving then FIRE his A$$, and elect/appoint someone who can.
 

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Hey Wildjo - Now i know why posters on this site call the sheople
I'm pretty sure you're trying to insult me (though I can't be certain given the sentence fragment) due to my views of a few MPs being on patrol in Cali, a few thousand miles from me, and doing something they've been doing for years as a non-threat.

I'm not offended. We each have our opinions.

I think my history of posting here makes it pretty clear that I am planning for an uncertain future. But, I also like to be careful about being too paranoid. Being truly prepared means keeping a clear head and being prepared for nothing to change at all.
 

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I'm pretty sure you're trying to insult me (though I can't be certain given the sentence fragment) due to my views of a few MPs being on patrol in Cali, a few thousand miles from me, and doing something they've been doing for years as a non-threat.

I'm not offended. We each have our opinions.

I think my history of posting here makes it pretty clear that I am planning for an uncertain future. But, I also like to be careful about being too paranoid. Being truly prepared means keeping a clear head and being prepared for nothing to change at all.
thats fine not wanting to be paraniod. the only problem is that, what they are doing IS illegal. the military are not to be used as a police force period. we are sliding down that slop now, IF our own gov breaks the LAW right infront of us, and ppl think like you do,they will get away with it :thumb:
 

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Just use a 2x4
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I found out what's going on. I work up there, near the marine base off the 62.

The marines are going to be stationed with the CHP during the checkpoints to learn how to conduct them. Then the marines are going to be conducting checkpoints ON THE BASE ONLY.

The marines themselves are not happy about it.
 

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then why doesnt the police conduct check points on the base to show them?

its wrong for them to be there in the 1st place all of it should be done on the base not in the civilian areas. i didnt know doing a check point was so difficult, that it takes SPECIAL trainning. if that is the case then they need to bring in police into the MP's A.I.T. and put it into the standard trainning.
 

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Just use a 2x4
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agree. Next time I have the sherrifs out for one of my students, I'll ask.

then why doesnt the police conduct check points on the base to show them?

its wrong for them to be there in the 1st place all of it should be done on the base not in the civilian areas. i didnt know doing a check point was so difficult, that it takes SPECIAL trainning. if that is the case then they need to bring in police into the MP's A.I.T. and put it into the standard trainning.
 

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Salad Shooter
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I found out what's going on. I work up there, near the marine base off the 62.

The marines are going to be stationed with the CHP during the checkpoints to learn how to conduct them. Then the marines are going to be conducting checkpoints ON THE BASE ONLY.

The marines themselves are not happy about it.

This can't be I think you were lied to either on purpose, or whoever told you that was lied to and they just passed it along.

You can't tell me a military who has conducted probably tens of thousands of road blocks/checkpoints in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Korea, Germany, etc. needs the CHP to teach them how to do it ON A MILITARY BASE. A military base is a whole different animal than a regular street. They have full military control over the entire base. They can stop and search any person or vehicle, anytime, for any reason.

If this were true then how on Earth did the military control traffic from the invention of the automobile up to this point?



Please do keep us informed about what the sheriff says next time you talk to them. :)
 

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Domestic Militarization Comes to San Bernardino County
Posted on 2008 December 14

The Marine Corps Air and Ground Combat Center (MCAGCC) Provost Marshal (head of a unit of military police) and the local California Highway Patrol office will begin working together 12/12 — and through the holiday season — in a joint effort to reduce accidents and drinking and driving. The combined mutual cooperation between the Marine Corps Military Police and State enforcement officers will begin somewhere along Highway 62. The CHP will set up DUI roadblocks with the presence of Military Police. A violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.


Gary Daigneault discussed the ramifications of this joint effort today on his 107.7 F.M. Talk Back show. Mr. Daigneault and his callers seemed to be very concerned. On its face, one may think this is a good idea. But it’s not. I agree with Mr. Daigneault and his callers. Most of which seemed to think this is a very bad idea. Mr. Daigneault contacted a Constitutional Law expert, and the attorney informed him this is absolutely unconstitutional. It’s NOT permitted under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, 8 U.S.C. § 1385. It’s my understanding that the Constitutional Law expert said CHP officers could be arrested out there working with the Military Police because it’s a “felony.”

Democracy depends upon abiding by the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, I challenge anyone to go out there and put a citizens arrest of the CHP officers, then call 9-1-1 and have a sheriff come out and take charge of your prisoner. Just kidding, of course, but a very brazen citizen legally could attempt to such a thing. But don’t even think about it.

Many of his callers vocalized that this joint effort or mutual cooperation between the military and the CHP is going to be very intimidating. They (as I) are very concerned the CHP is going through with this action. It’s not really clear what the specific role of the Military Police will be… To assist; to observe; to train; to make a strong military presence; to take charge of military offenders detained by the CHP? Nonetheless, whatever, it’s unconstitutional; it’s a felony. I contacted the Morongo CHP office.* The dispatcher said the program will be in effect tonight. When I asked here were it was going to be, she said call back tonight after 7:00 P.M. But I politely protested, these DUI check stops are public. She said I have to speak with CHP Public Affairs officer after seven.* A call to the CHP Public Affairs Officer’s number* after seven got a recorded message to call from 9-5 during business hours. Query: why wasn’t I told that?

By the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, 20 Stat. 152, 18 U.S.C. § 1385, it was provided that “it shall NOT (emphasis added) be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress… .” The effect of this prohibition, however, was largely nullified by a ruling of the Attorney General “that by Revised Statutes 5298 and 5300 [10 U.S.C. §§ 332, 334] the military forces, under the direction of the President, could be used to assist a marshal. 16 Ops. Atty. Gen. 162.” B. RICH, THE PRESIDENTS AND CIVIL DISORDER 196 n.21 (1941).

Okay, as far as I know the President has not given direction to the local CHP to deploy the USMC on public roads in order to setup a military presence during routine DUI check stops in the Basin. It’s not allowed. Whoever came up with plan in the CHP in my opinion is abusing their powers. Where is the public necessity or authority to do this? There is none — unless the Commander in Chief made the call. It’s also my opinion, the CHP has made a very bad choice in their joint venture with the Marine Corps. Though I have intrinsic belief that the CHP has the very best of intentions, however, good intentions does not override the U.S. Constitution.

I know the Marine Corps has the best of intentions too. But the best of intentions is not cause to trump the Constitution.

Late this afternoon, I spoke with the Provost Marshal office, Corporal Knuesn. He indicated this may happen. I then spoke with the MCAGCC Public Affairs Chief, Gunny Sgt. Chris Cox.** He was very cooperative and informative about the mutual efforts of the Military Police and the CHP: “They will be working closely over the month to cut down of traffic accidents,” he said, “the Military Police will observe DUI check points and watch for their own guys. The intent is to have Military Presence out there.”

Gunny Cox explains that Hwy. 62 is one of the most dangerous highways out here. No doubt it is.

The Public Affairs Chief also explained, “they will not participate [assist the CHP] because they are not concerned [lack of jurisdiction] with California law.” I must say, Gunny Sgt. Cox is one extremely nice guy. And his good intentions — to save his guys from injuries or worse — was certainly manifested. May good fortune be with this Marine.

It’s little encroachments like this that undermine the Constitution. Then one day you wake up, and it gone. [See Franklin quote, infra-]. I can see numerous scenarios during those DUI check stops. To name a few: The Military Police go to the aid of the CHP to take down a civilian bad guy. A drunken teen. Unruly tweakers. Will the Military Police be armed? Do they have any sort orders of engagements?

* ** The bottom line: I urge anyone and everyone who believes in the Constitution, United States Codes, and Posse Comitatus — to do something! What can you do? To begin with, I suggest you contact the local Joshua Tree CHP Public Affairs Officer, Officer McLoud, at: 760. 366.3707 and voice your concern. Further, you can contact the MCAGCC Public Affairs Chief on the base at: 760.830.5476 or 760. 830.6213. Moreover, contact the Provost Marshal office at: 760.830.4215.

Voice your concerns. That’s just a start. Contact state officials and legislatures. Write letters to the editor.

Thank you, Branson Hunter

“What type of government,” a woman asks, “have you given us?” To which Benjamin Franklin replies: ” A democratic Republic, madam, if you can keep it.” — “Benjamin Franklin: An American Life. Walter Isaacson (2003)
did you confirm this as a fact before you posted it?
 

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Just use a 2x4
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Oh, of course they know how to do a checkpoint - it's the testing for the alcohol level that they're supposed to be learning.

I'll let you know what else they say when I find out..... right now there's too much snow for me to be able to get to work up there.

This can't be I think you were lied to either on purpose, or whoever told you that was lied to and they just passed it along.

You can't tell me a military who has conducted probably tens of thousands of road blocks/checkpoints in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Korea, Germany, etc. needs the CHP to teach them how to do it ON A MILITARY BASE. A military base is a whole different animal than a regular street. They have full military control over the entire base. They can stop and search any person or vehicle, anytime, for any reason.

If this were true then how on Earth did the military control traffic from the invention of the automobile up to this point?



Please do keep us informed about what the sheriff says next time you talk to them. :)
 

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Salad Shooter
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Oh, of course they know how to do a checkpoint - it's the testing for the alcohol level that they're supposed to be learning.

I'll let you know what else they say when I find out..... right now there's too much snow for me to be able to get to work up there.
Oh I see, even still I would think that learning how to use a breathalyzer is a class room training issue. Not something that would require them to be working with CHP out on the streets. I just think it's a BAD idea to be setting any sort of precedent with the military. Like one of the other posters said, it starts with this and it goes "so well" that they do something else. Then that does so well they do something else.

It also gives them more to try and placate the sheeple with. Next time they might deploy them doing something else, maybe assisting with serving a drug related search warrant. Then if any of us say anything they can just distract people by saying "we've been working with the military in the past and it works out real well".
 
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