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CRAP CREEK SURVIVOR
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
***Important Notice***​


First, the Dry Stuff:

THIS IS AN EXPLORATORY DISCUSSION THREAD ONLY and not intended to suggest treatments.

Many herbs do not play well with some pharmaceuticals and can be dangerous for some people with certain existing health conditions.

The posts on this thread are for educational purposes only, and are in no way intended to substitute for the advice of a health care professional.

This web site and its owner, and its members do not adopt any health, medicinal or disease-related claims based on any of the products, remedies, herbs, therapies or practices that may be discussed here. We encourage readers to be careful when using any medical information taken from the Internet. If you are unsure about your medical condition, consult a health care professional.

It is also a good idea to thoroughly research any herbs or alternative treatments before adopting them into your health care regimen. Many herbs are powerful medicines that can interfere with your medications or physical issues.



I would love to hear from herbalists here who would like to share personal observations and experiences. Even better: cited references, sources, etc.
 

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CRAP CREEK SURVIVOR
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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
A lot of people have asked me if elderberry will help fight COVID-19.

Although I am not a licensed medical professional cleared to dispense medical information, I will share my personal viewpoint based on a lifetime of herbal studies and experience.

Elderberry has been demonstrated in clinical and laboratory studies to disable a virus' ability to replicate. (Google it. It works on a variety of viruses.)

HOWEVER, elderberry can also increase the body's immune response, which raises the risk of an increased cytokine storm associated with certain viruses, and in the case of using it for this particular coronavirus, further harm may (or may not) occur in the lungs via more fluid build up there. As of this writing, we don't know enough about the effects of elderberry on this virus to say if it will or not, but because elderberry also contains other compounds that may work in tandem to lessen the storm. (Google it, there are several schools of thought about this.)

(But first, go here to learn about more about cytokine storms in general: https://www.breakthroughs.com/search/site/cytokine storm)

Many ordinary colds and flu do not pose a huge risk of a deadly cytokine storm, which is why elderberry is safe to use before, during, and after colds and most cases of common influenza, but certain flu strains and viruses do pose an increased risk of a cytokine storm. One example is the Spanish Flu pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920).

I am taking elderberry syrup 3 times a day as a preventative if/when I am exposed to the public (or anyone who has), and as long as I am well and healthy. But if I suspect that I may have the dreaded virus that is making the news, I may discontinue using elderberry out of the abundance of caution against a potential cytokine storm.
 

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CRAP CREEK SURVIVOR
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Discussion Starter #3
Since this Coronavirus mess started, I've been spending a great deal of time researching and learning all that I can about 2019-nCoV to formulate backup alternatives in the event I am faced with NO doctor, NO more pharmaceuticals, and NO medical facilities/equipment. Plans B, C, and D includes managing medical care which includes herbs and other alternatives.

The more I dig into the research material, the more fascinating it gets. In addition to studying articles in the Lancet, ProMEDmail, PubMed, etc, etc. etc. etc. I am also digging into a few Chinese formulas that were used in the SARS days. Additionally, I am reviewing newer Chinese Formulas suggested by a team of doctors specializing in Chinese Medicine (herbal). They are currently working for the Chinese government in response to 2019-nCoV. (As we know, there is no "cure" yet, but the Chinese are definitely knocking themselves out right now.) I will link to these formulas in another post.

I am also digging into the repertoire of several herbalists such as Stephen Buhner, Sam Coffman, Matthew Woods, David Winston, and several others.

Once I am satisfied with my research, and after I confer with other herbalists, I will begin making my tinctures to make different formulations for different stages of the viral infection. The formulas will include a number of antivirals, supportive herbs for the kidneys, herbs to address the cytokine storm, etc. etc. etc. etc.
 

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CRAP CREEK SURVIVOR
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Discussion Starter #4
Stephen Buhner, who is the author of several widely read and well-researched books (one of which is titled, Herbal Antivirals), has recently published on his Facebook page some recipes for interesting formulations that he put together specifically for the 2019-nCoV. (If you have the book, look at pages 54-57 for his discussion about some of the herbs which he also used for treating SARS with success.)

Here is Stephen Buhner's post:

facebook.com/100001768894566/posts/2694345887301015/?d=nStephen Buhner

Posted January 23 at 11:37 AM ·

Coronavirus treatment. I have an analysis of how coronaviruses infect tissues, what tissues they infect, and the herbs that are useful to interrupt that process, as well as the herbs useful to shut down the cytokine cascade they create on pages 52-55 of Herbal Antivirals. It is useful reading in that it can inform treatment from a knowledgeable place (there are also some suggestions, not often used by medical professionals, for specific pharmaceuticals that have been found to be useful). Here is a sample protocol. Please note it is rather more extensive than the ones i normally suggest, this is because the particular coronavirus that is now spreading worldwide is exceptionally potent in its impacts. Again, this is only a suggested protocol, but all the herbs are specific in one way or another for this virus. A number of the herbs are strongly antiviral for coronaviruses. In general, I would only begin using these formulations IF there is good reason to believe that the virus is entering your area. The formulations are preventative as well as specific for acute infections, the only alteration is the dosage. Three tincture formulations and one tea.

Core tincture formulation: Baikal skullcap (3 parts), Japanese knotweed root (2 parts), kudzu (2 parts), licorice (1 part), decocted elder leaf tincture (1 part). Note, the berry will do i guess but it is about 1/3 as effective as the decocted leaf (which no one sells, you have to make it yourself). Dosage: 1 tsp 3x day, 6x if active infection.

Immune system, cellular protection, cytokine interruption tincture formulation, supportive for core tincture activity: Cordyceps (3 parts), Dong Quai (2 parts), rhodiola (1 part), astragalus (1 part). Dosage: same as above.

Cellular protection, cytokine interruption, spleen/lymph support tincture formulation: Dan Shen (3 parts), red root (2 parts), cinnamon (1 part). same dosage as above.

With active infection: very strong boneset tea, to 6x day.

I have used this with other coronavirus infections, including SARS, it works well.


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CRAP CREEK SURVIVOR
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Sam Coffman, who is the author of The Herbal Medic, also published to his Facebook page his herbal protocol (which includes over a dozen herbs) as well. His book is an excellent resource for anyone who is survival and preparedness-minded.

Here is his post:

Facebook


Sam Coffman‎ (Herbal Medics: Field Medicine and Community Enrichment)

Posted January 22, 2020

I have been getting a lot of questions about the latest coronavirus (CoV) that looks like it arrived in the USA (Seattle) yesterday.

The 2019-nCoV flu virus (aka Wuhan coronavirus, Wuhan flu) appears to attack the respiratory tract and can also affect the kidneys. Other CoVs in recent past were SARS and MERS.

Expect flu-like symptoms. Fever, coughing, shortness of breath, malaise. Probably the biggest threat this virus presents is the possible onset of pneumonia. Secondarily, another threat is kidney damage or kidney failure, particularly with people with weakened immune systems.

This is an airborne disease and most likely reproduces and enters the human body through the immune responses around our respiratory epithelial cells. Aside from good preventative measures (hand-washing, face mask if around people you know are sick or are sick yourself, good nutrition, no sugar, lots of rest, etc.), it is my opinion that any herb that helps support the respiratory tract will be helpful here. Examples are Thyme, Marshmallow, Elecampane, Licorice, Gumweed, Mullein, Yerba Santa, Yerba Mansa, etc.

Likewise, there are a lot of good “anti-viral” (a term I don’t really like using) herbs like Yarrow, Boneset, Ginger, Elder (flower or berry – you can see my multi-fractional extract video for elderberry – which can be used for flower as well that are helpful - especially if they help with elimination (e.g. diaphoretic, aquaretic, lymph stimulating).

Video at the end of this post.

Many years ago, I made a formula in response to the SARS and MERS outbreaks at the time. This formula is specific to helping the body deal with the attack of CoVs, with many herbs that have been shown to slow or inhibit CoV viral replication, along with support for the respiratory mucosa, adaptive immune system and kidneys. I have tweaked it and changed some herbs (newer herb research since then) and it is called “reCoVer” in our online store now, if you want to check it out: https://herbalfirstaidgear.com/product/recover-formula/

Here are the ingredients:
Chameleon Plant, Sweet Annie, Japanese Knotweed, Licorice, Black Chinese Cardamom, Astragalus, Althaea, Elder, Goldenrod, Yerba Santa, Inmortal, Alcohol, Glycerin, Honey, Water
Here are some questions from his readers:

Mary Andrews to Sam Coffman :
any recommendations for kidney support. From what I have read this is the main organ affected by the Coronavirus.

· Reply from Sam Coffman

Yes, goldenrod, cordyceps, nettles root and/or seed are my usual kidney supporting herbs that all increase glomerular filtration rate. Combined with plenty of water of course, and if you aquaretic are good to have as well such as parsley root, celery seed, dandelion root, etc.

Here is how Sam Coffman makes his super potent multi-fractional elderberry extract: (Starts at the 2:40 mark.)

Note: Although Sam is a fun-loving chap, he is quite serious about his work and is a respected and widely published herbalist.

)


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I'm a big user and promoter of elderberry syrup. I have been using it for myself and my family for years (not daily but as needed and seasonally) and think it's a big reason why we rarely get sick and, when we do, we tend to get over it fast. However, I've done research on the cytokine storm (and the spanish flu) myself and agree that it may not be the best idea if and when exposed to this virus specifically. Which, to be honest, scares the **** out of me. :( Elderberry and vitamin C have always been my "go to's", successfully so. But in this case I feel lost as to how to prepare for this when it comes to treatment if and when we actually get the virus. I look forward to any suggestions posted.

One thing I'll mention, but will admit that when I've tired to research it and find specific and concrete proof of it's effectiveness I haven't found any.... but years ago I read somewhere that pineapple juice helps break up chest congestion. I have used this and with my kids too on a few occasions and it does seem to help a lot. But, again, though you can find lots of references to that online I haven't been able to find actual proof that it works. And what info I did find points to fresh pineapple and what I've used (for this purpose) in the past was canned pineapple juice. Regardless, it's something I have stocked up on this week anyway, just in case.
 

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CRAP CREEK SURVIVOR
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Discussion Starter #8
Elderberry, Cytokines, You, Me, and COVID-19

Here is why I have decided to take Elderberry to avoid being infected with this virus... and especially if I come down with what I think might be an ordinary cold, flu, or even allergies.

According to case histories, the cytokine storm doesn't seem to kick in until well after the incubation period and the rather mild symptoms have presented for a few days.

This case was published in the New England Journal of Medicine titled, First Case of 2019 Novel Coronavirus in the United States

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2001191?query=featured_home


At first, this particular case seems encouraging because the guy survived. Glad he did, but there are some things to read between the lines.

He was young and seemed healthy enough at the onset, except for some mild symptoms that could be easily mistaken for allergies or some mild upper respiratory issues, or something equally NOT SERIOUS.

If he was not already alert to the fact that he needed to be watchful for the possibility of coming down with COVID-19 no one would think he had anything of serious consequence until day 9 kicked in and things started getting real...

It is cold and flu season right now, and the spring allergy season is right around the corner... People who are infected with this virus will think they have just a cold or an allergy, nothing to worry about, right? The symptoms are not that bad. Meanwhile, they are spreading germs everywhere they go...

So, yeah. I hope I can beat it in the beginning stages with elderberry syrup. And I will be watchful for worsening symptoms, in which case I will immediately discontinue the elderberry.
 

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Wannabe Mountain Hermit
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Thank you GA, good info but sadly I can't use Elderberry. I have several autoimmune diseases that try to kill me on occasion. I can't eat or take anything that boosts my immune system. I have to take immunosuppressants. Any help would be greatly appreciated. But I have made some for my son who works in the fast food industry and he has agreed to use it during the flu seasons and so far it has helped him not to bring the flu in.

Do you know of any herbs that help fight viral infections that don't boost the immune system?
 

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You cant find a larger populated country than China that uses traditional herbal therapy. I havent seen any reports of how its helping there though.
That shouldn't surprise anyone really. The Chinese internet is heavily censored. Most of the information coming out of China illegally focuses on the sensational such as body bags and people falling over unconscious in the street.
 

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CRAP CREEK SURVIVOR
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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you GA, good info but sadly I can't use Elderberry. I have several autoimmune diseases that try to kill me on occasion. I can't eat or take anything that boosts my immune system. I have to take immunosuppressants. Any help would be greatly appreciated. But I have made some for my son who works in the fast food industry and he has agreed to use it during the flu seasons and so far it has helped him not to bring the flu in.

Do you know of any herbs that help fight viral infections that don't boost the immune system?
I am hesitant to make recommendations because I am not a licensed health professional and also because some herbs do not play well with some pharmaceuticals.

The best bet for you would be to seek a licensed Naturopathic Doctor. But please be careful: there is a difference between licensed and a traditional Naturopathic Doctor.

In your case, the money and effort you spend to see a licensed doc could be lifesaving. (I have seen too many "nice" but unlicensed NDs nearly kill people! Turned out they didn't know as much as they claimed, even after years of "experience.")

https://aanmc.org/news/difference-between-traditional-naturopath-and-licensed-naturopathic-doctor/
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I am interested in comparing notes with people who have tried making Elderberry preparations with the American species, Sambucus canadensis.

Something that I have noticed about Elderberry (Sambucus canadensis) mentioned in old books and historical accounts: none of the species native to America were attributed to having anti-cold and flu properties. Not in any of the Native American accounts either.

As far as I know, in any of the old publications that I have seen so far, only the European Sambucas ***** has been famous for its antiviral properties.

Thoughts??

Has anyone here made Elderberry syrup with the American native variety, and found good results for warding off colds and flu?

I have some in my freezer and will make the tincture and also syrup to use on myself as a guinea pig, pretty soon!
 

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I always keep Sambucol around
It is clinically proven for both cold, i.e. coronavirus and flu virus, but expensive compared to other elderberry preperations. Made in France.

I also take Dr. Mercola Organic Fermented Elderberry

I also use Pure Synergy Organic Immune Health and Rapid Rescue
Rapid Rescue uses
Immune Enhancer
Olive Leaf Extract

Oregano Leaf ExtractMicrobial Health
Oregano Leaf Extract

Propolis ExtractMicrobial Health
Propolis Extract

Ginger Rhizome ExtractDigestion Support
Ginger Rhizome Extract

Manuka Honey Active 400+ MGOImmune Enhancer
Manuka Honey Active 400+ MGO

Pelargonium sidoides Root ExtractHealthy Respiratory Function
Pelargonium Sidoides Root Extract

Finally, Oil of Oregano, i.e. Greek Oregano, is really potent and its taste is potent

These are niche supplements for me.
In general, I have found an organic clean whole food diet and organic whole food supplements are effective for health.
I have seen the benefits over the past few years on such a regimen
Better not to get sick in the first place, obviously

Great thread
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You cant find a larger populated country than China that uses traditional herbal therapy. I havent seen any reports of how its helping there though.

I am willing to bet there are a lot of people who are not getting sick for some reason or another.

Also, there have been many anecdotal accounts of success in treating SARS with certain Chinese herbs. And some clinical success was reported by herbalist Stephen Buhner in his practice as well.

I do know that my favorite supplier of herbs and roots that are popular in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) quickly sold out of certain items. Same thing with Amazon. Can't find them anywhere. At all.

Also, seeing on Twitter how the Chinese have completely depleted their local supply of certain herbal preparations and are desperately seeking more, and will pay any price...

These are the kind of things that can make you go, "hmmm..."
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks! I took a look and they didn't have any of the herbs that I plugged into their search bar...
 

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I am a fan of oregano oil for cold/flu prevention. I don't have all the articles but it has been very helpful when I am exposed to someone with an active infection, or I'm coming down with something.

Plowgirl, I would make him some licorice root tea with a little ginger root. It is sweet tasting and you can add some cinnamon if he likes it.
 
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