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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
There has been an inordinate amount of talk lately regarding precious metals as a viable store of wealth in the event of economic collapse. I have seen six or seven almost entirely unrelated threads degenerate into discussions about metals, most likely due to the fact that everyone and their uncle can now see the gray economic clouds on the horizon. MY INTENTION FOR THIS THREAD IS NOT TO DEBATE THE VIABILITY OF METALS AS A CURRENCY IN THE EVENT OF ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, but to lay down some facts for those who are interested in using metals to protect SOME of their savings. Hopefully, some of you who are smarter than me will add your wisdom to this thread.

History:
Creation of Man: Gold is shiny and desireable.
B.C. 700: Gold becomes first currency known to man.
A.D. 2009: Gold is still recognized throughout the world as a viable store of wealth.

Nuff said. Gold was the first form of currency, replacing barterables for vurtually the entire civilized world. Gold has never disappeared as a form of wealth. Anyone who believes that gold and silver will be emptied of their value in the event of an economic disaster - short of the destruction of the world as a whole - would have to do some serious verbal gymnastics to defend their position.

How will gold and silver survive as a medium of exchange in the event of economic turbulence? Yes, it is true that you cannot eat gold or silver. But you cannot eat bugout vehicles, firearms, ammunition, or most building materials. Yet most of us store them anyway. The reason that gold and silver will likely survive as a medium of exchange (in my humble opinion) in a serious SHTF scenario is threefold: 1) Many, many survivalists have already started to put much of their savings into metals. Therefore, they have non-verbally and perhaps unintentionally preselected metals as a future medium of exchange. 2) Precious metals have international value. Unless the entire world devolves into sheep-trading simultaneously, currency will be needed on some level. 3) Bartering will no doubt be efficacious, but it has its limitations. For example: Suppose farmer Joe has goats, flour, diapers, and a .22 rifle, but I have goats, flour and .338 ammo. Now I want some of Farmer Joe's diapers, but I don't really have anything to barter with. That's where currencies come into play. That's how currencies took flight in the first place.

Should I put all my money into metals? I'm not qualified to give financial advice, but I sure as hell wouldn't. I believe that your personal preparations that will keep you alive take a front seat. Then, metals may be a good method for protecting some of your wealth. However, no one - and I mean no one - can tell you exactly how the market will react in the future.

Are metals a good hedge against inflation? Most experts (if you go out and do your homework) will tell you "Sort of - yeah" - but it isn't a perfect science for the short term. Metals don't have a perfect track record against inflation at all times. What I mean is that if you look at the dollar vs metals on a chart over the last century, you can't always say, "Look! That guy made bank on investing in metals!" However, metals are excellent against massive rapid inflation. Their value relative to goods and services doesn't fluctuate much. The price goes up and down in terms of dollars, but that is a bit deceptive. The dollars are what are fluctuating, not the value of the metals. That's because the dollar is not linked to anything of tangible value, and is subsequently subject to inflation, etc. Thus, when the dollar is strong, it takes fewer dollars to purchase metals (the price drops). When the dollar is weak, it takes more dollars to purchase metals (the price increases). So, if the dollar collapses quickly, 1/4 oz of silver will still be roughly equal in value to a loaf of bread (so long as the supply of bread remains the same), the same as it does today.

Are metals a good hedge against disaster? They always have been before, and there's no reason to believe that they won't this time around. Paper monies have collapsed, but gold and silver have never collapsed. Again, gold and silver have international value. In the event that the U.S. goes through an economic crisis and recovers (and that's a big if), those with gold and silver will have something to utilize in the new economic system.

What active laws should I be aware of? In 1933, FDR confiscated all privately held gold, making gold ownership illegal. Although Americans are now allowed to own gold again, the law that FDR used is still on the books. What does that mean? Well, according to the law, coins with numismatic value can not be confiscated. Numismatics are any coins which derive 10% or more of their value due to their collectibility. Now whether or not any coin will retain any collectibility value in the event of a complete economic disaster is a question no one can really answer.

What types of coins should I purchase? Again, I am not a financial advisor, but my humble recommendation: mostly bullion (the cost of the coin comes strictly from the mineral contined, not from collector value); American Eagles, Canadian Maple Leaves, and South American Kruggerands. Because these coins come from countries that are fairly well trusted around the globe - i.e. they don't usually put led in the middle of their coins - these coins are generally very liquidable. I have heard anecdotal stories of Mexico and China dilluting the purity of their gold or slipping led inside of a very few number of coins. But in the end, diversification is the key. Get some bullion from a number of different countries. Get some "junk silver" (old silver dimes, quarters, half dollars, etc.). Perhaps get a few numismatics. Hell, buy something minted by a private corporation. But just as we diversified our stock portfolio, we should diversify our metals portfolio.

How do I go about purchasing metals? Go online and find yourself some local coin dealers. Ask them what their standard mark up is over spot. Sounds like this: "Hey Joe, what's your mark up for silver bullion coins?". (Note: Only call him Joe if that's his name). A good dealer will tell you up front. If he can't, he should be able to tell you how he sets his price. Then, make sure your dealer isn't set on keeping your personal information. You should be able to drop dollars on the counter and walk away with metals (so long as its under $10k). Once you pick the dealer with the best prices who doesn't mind that you're "paranoid", just ask him what bullion he has on hand. Sounds like this: "Hey Joe, what types of gold bullion coins do you have on hand?". Although dealers are less likely to have a large stock on hand currently, they'd normally have some Maple Leaves, Eagles, and Kruggerands, and perhaps some from another country or private mint.

Disclaimer: I am a complete novice. I do not have large stocks of metals hoarded, nor am I or have I ever been a dealer. This thread is intended to give a brand new buyer a bit of steering guidance so you can start doing your homework. Please do not leave this thread and go spend money on metals based on what I say. The information contained here comes from study and just a bit of personal experience, period - no professional expertise. Hopefully, some smart guys can add to it.
 

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I'm thinking the lack of responses is a testament to the clarity and thoroughness with which you covered the subject.:thumb:
 

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Gettin' there
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APMEX has reasonable prices on gold/silver bullion.

DO NOT buy from ebay. They just had a 3 part series in Coin World on a guy from China who sales fake coins. No telling how many have purchased from him and are trying to resell.

Check here daily for the price of gold/silver. The price dropped almost $5 in the last few hours.
http://goldprice.org/

I have been collecting coins now for nearly 20 yrs. It's not a good time to purchase bullion because everyone is scared of the economy and those who have it will make you pay through the arse for it!
If you want to purchase bullion, don't purchase anything fancy. Your best bet is to buy 'junk' silver or 'junk' gold. Either way, it's gold/silver and you will have some.

If you have the time, go to your local bank and purchase rolls of half dollars. Look through them. If you find a Kennedy dated '64, it's 90% silver. A Kennedy dated '65 -'67, it's 40% silver. And you may get lucky and find a Franklin or Walking Liberty.
Plus, if you have kids, make a game out of it for who can find the first 'valuable' coin!

Or, you could just go dredge up your own gold

 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
DO NOT buy from ebay. They just had a 3 part series in Coin World on a guy from China who sales fake coins. No telling how many have purchased from him and are trying to resell.
Great. I've heard that this was the case from a couple of dealers, but its good to see that there's some print media to back it up.

I have been collecting coins now for nearly 20 yrs. It's not a good time to purchase bullion because everyone is scared of the economy and those who have it will make you pay through the arse for it!
If you want to purchase bullion, don't purchase anything fancy. Your best bet is to buy 'junk' silver or 'junk' gold. Either way, it's gold/silver and you will have some.
My last couple of purchases were mostly junk silver, but there are still some dealers who can get some bullion at their regular mark up.
 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
APMEX has reasonable prices on gold/silver bullion.

Or, you could just go dredge up your own gold

Where, praytell, did you happen to stumble across that gold? Ten digit grid will do just find. Actually, I would settle for a tip on how to determine where to look.
 

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Gettin' there
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Where, praytell, did you happen to stumble across that gold? Ten digit grid will do just find. Actually, I would settle for a tip on how to determine where to look.
I am an hours drive from a handful of old gold mines.

Me and a buddy dredge during the summer.

Google gold mines in the state you live in.
 

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Get Silver and then add Gold

The gold and silver prices are both at a slight plateau. Silver seems to be timed with Gas and oil prices.

I am trying to buy a set goal of 30+oz per month. This is about $400 per month.
I will do this until I get up to about 500oz. I buy from the local coin shop which had better prices than the Internet sites. I also go to the local Oxford exchange. I have several SAE(silver American Eagles) which are one oz. coins. I also have 10oz bars.

I will buy 1/10 oz GAEand maple leaves bullion coins when I can find them. The mints are not producing them. I will pick them up. My view is that they would be good if SHTF but in a larger sense I think that the dollar is artificially inflated and that the ratio of silver to gold is rather low right now. Its near 1:80 when it goes up to 1:40 then I will trade my silver for gold. I will keep doing this until I have about 5000oz of silver bullion and 100 oz of Gold with fractionals in bob.

I am definitely a noob at this but I think that in about 2-3 years silver prices will be up to about 50 per oz. Silver is an industrial metal that although is losing demand because of switch to digital cameras will become popular in circuit design for Alternative energy products like solar cells.

I keep my present stash in my gun safe. It will be about 5-10 years before I trust markets although I got out in March 08 before the blood filled the streets. My broinlaw lost a bunch. I knew something was up last Spring and got out.

I will continue to post on this site as I learn more. I also plan to buy as much ftf as I have a fairly secure job and will pick up from others who will sell.

This is the next thing to buy after ammo and magazines and I have that largely covered.

I need to also buy more primers and want to get a FnH fiveseven before Barry starts running the show.

Have a good Happy New Year,

Sincerely,

Thomas:thumb:
 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Fantastic comments. Thanks. Sounds like silver is your monthly savings plan. What's the alternative? Paper money? Ha! And firearms and ammo are also another great "tangible asset".

Also, agree completely on silver right now. Neither the cost of gold nor of the cost of silver has adjusted appropriately yet. Relative to the market (compared to the recession of the 80s) gold should be at over $2k/ oz. However, you're right. Silver should jump the most.

Thanks again for the comments.
 

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Please elaborate on this-

"History:
Creation of Man: Gold is shiny and desireable.
B.C. 700: Gold becomes first currency known to man.
A.D. 2009: Gold is still recognized throughout the world as a viable store of wealth."

As in what civilizations used gold as the "first currency known to man." Also, what countries use gold now as currency?

A little more history might tighten your case up a bit.

I feel for the folks that two years ago when PM's had FINALLY started to really move after 20 years of doing nothing, bought gold at $1,000. an ounce and silver at $20.00 That's about a 20% LOSS on the gold and almost a 50% LOSS on the silver. Inflation hedge huh?

Let's see, I bought some silver on a whim (actually a couple whims) in the early 90's. Now, IF it had gained -and KEPT- a solid 5% return between 1993 and now it would be worth
$16.03 per ounce.

Yet silver at close on 12/31 was $11.38

OOOPPPSS! "Hedge against inflation" eh? Bank CD would have given you that 5% or more during that time period. For a few years you could get money markets that yielded 6% and this would have been more fluid that either the CD OR the silver.

So actually, based on our example above, silver was WAY under both bank CD's and of course INFLATION....

Also, consider that with your PM's you are BUYING AT RETAIL AND SELLING AT WHOLESALE. I used to love to see the posts when the PM market was high where people were aghast that their favorite PM dealer wouldn't pay them spot for coins they were SELLING. Why is that? Cause the dealer has to make money too! I don't see UNICEF in the coin business do you? Exactly.

The ONLY worthwhile reason I've seen to hold any PM's is the "pay my property taxes during a depression" theory. Here again that has some holes in it also- like the dealer not wanting to give you spot for your coins, and definitely the county tax assessor is NOT going to accept silver or gold. 3 or 4X the current tax cost in cash MIGHT prove as worthwhile in this regard.

Barter? Consider that folks that are REALLY prepared, I'm not including the "72 hour troop" in this, are in a MINORITY in this country. So who are you LIKELY to barter with? Those that are not prepared. Joe and Sally Sixpack who have been eating ketchup and mustard for the last two weeks, are they going to need your silver? What the heck are they going to have to trade?

"Oh but silver and gold will be a currency after the collapse." Probably should look up currency and do some serious thinking about this. In order for ANYTHING to function as a currency it needs to be PLENTIFUL. I'm NOT saying that you won't find some people that WILL trade for it, I'm saying it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY to become an honest to goodness "currency" in the true sense of the word. The reason- their just isn't enough of it around! Your 100 silver coins are NOT going to found the New Republic of Survivalia, it just ain't gonna happen.

Less that total collapse- sure it's gonna have some use, again subject to what's been written above.

See the thing is that the world is full of dreamers. Everyone wants something that they think is going to make them super rich without any effort. Don't think this doesn't apply to the survivalist movement......

Do I have some PM's? Yes I do. I bought a fair amount of silver in the early 90's, honestly because I HAD NOT THOUGHT IT ALL OUT.

We have lived at our retreat for close to 10 years now. In that time period I haven't found a reason to purchase PM's again. Something else always comes up- logistics for the well, upgrades to the AE system, new fencing for garden areas, NVG's, canning jars, getting out of debt, saving for a new car, putting in more beehives, expanding the orchards, re-roofing buildings, training classes.....................

Should you buy PM's?

*Are you out of debt?
*Got a real year supply of food?
*Safe place to go if something happens?
*Medical supplies and training?
*Weapons battery, logistics for same, training?
*Outdoor and other necessary clothing and gear?
*NBC preps?
*Water purifier, storage capabilities?
*Decent reference library?
 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Please elaborate on this-

"As in what civilizations used gold as the "first currency known to man." Also, what countries use gold now as currency?
Gladly. Somewhere around 600-700 BC Lydians began to use gold coins as currency. Some say the Chinese used little gold squares that predate Lydian use.

Reread my initial post. I NEVER said that any countries "now use gold as currency". I said that "gold is still recognized around the world as a viable STORE OF WEALTH".

I feel for the folks that two years ago when PM's had FINALLY started to really move after 20 years of doing nothing, bought gold at $1,000. an ounce and silver at $20.00 That's about a 20% LOSS on the gold and almost a 50% LOSS on the silver. Inflation hedge huh?
Reread my initial post. As I said, metals DO NOT have a perfect track record against inflation. If you had read thoroughly you would have seen this. They do have a very good track record against massive rapid inflation. Show me that I am wrong.

Let's see, I bought some silver on a whim (actually a couple whims) in the early 90's. Now, IF it had gained -and KEPT- a solid 5% return between 1993 and now it would be worth
$16.03 per ounce.

Yet silver at close on 12/31 was $11.38

OOOPPPSS! "Hedge against inflation" eh? Bank CD would have given you that 5% or more during that time period. For a few years you could get money markets that yielded 6% and this would have been more fluid that either the CD OR the silver.

So actually, based on our example above, silver was WAY under both bank CD's and of course INFLATION....
Again, reread my initial post. And you'd have to support your definition of "way under". To me, "way under" is going from 500 German marks to purchase silver then a wheelbarrel full two months later.

Also, consider that with your PM's you are BUYING AT RETAIL AND SELLING AT WHOLESALE. I used to love to see the posts when the PM market was high where people were aghast that their favorite PM dealer wouldn't pay them spot for coins they were SELLING. Why is that? Cause the dealer has to make money too! I don't see UNICEF in the coin business do you? Exactly.
I am not selling at anything to anyone. And if you're doing what you've proposed above, you're making a serious investment blunder. What you're talking about sounds like market timing. I'm proposing a means of diversification that can provide a "store of wealth" to hedge against disaster. In addition, you are incorrect in assuming that you are restricted to selling to a dealer. Right now, you can generally sell above retail to private buyers.

The ONLY worthwhile reason I've seen to hold any PM's is the "pay my property taxes during a depression" theory. Here again that has some holes in it also- like the dealer not wanting to give you spot for your coins, and definitely the county tax assessor is NOT going to accept silver or gold. 3 or 4X the current tax cost in cash MIGHT prove as worthwhile in this regard.
Reread my initial post. We're not talking about selling back to a dealer unless it is after a severe economic downturn. I'm proposing a "store of wealth" to hedge against disaster, or a means of currency "in the event that our current currency collapses". What's your pre-selected form of currency.

Barter? Consider that folks that are REALLY prepared, I'm not including the "72 hour troop" in this, are in a MINORITY in this country. So who are you LIKELY to barter with? Those that are not prepared. Joe and Sally Sixpack who have been eating ketchup and mustard for the last two weeks, are they going to need your silver? What the heck are they going to have to trade?
Reread my initial post. The topic is metals, not bartering. You can say that bartering won't be viable in the event of an economic collapse all you want ( and you would be wrong). But, I'm proposing that metals are a viable "store of wealth". That's the topic.


"Oh but silver and gold will be a currency after the collapse." Probably should look up currency and do some serious thinking about this. In order for ANYTHING to function as a currency it needs to be PLENTIFUL. I'm NOT saying that you won't find some people that WILL trade for it, I'm saying it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY to become an honest to goodness "currency" in the true sense of the word. The reason- their just isn't enough of it around! Your 100 silver coins are NOT going to found the New Republic of Survivalia, it just ain't gonna happen.
Reread my initial post. I never said that they will be currency AFTER a collapse. A currency during, liquidable in "a new [emergent] economic system". I said that they will be able to be liquidated AFTER a collapse. If you think you can't liquidate them in the future, prove me wrong. History has demonstrated that they will survive. It has demonstrated that your paper money won't.

And you'd have to support that claim of "there just isn't enough of it around". Tell us. How much is there around? And why do you assume I have 100 coins? Also, Currency can be limited to a community of five or six families who have accepted metals for that purpose. Then is it enough to source some must-haves? Now, do some research on survival script. Its the same principal as paper money BACKED by metals, but developed within a community.

See the thing is that the world is full of dreamers. Everyone wants something that they think is going to make them super rich without any effort. Don't think this doesn't apply to the survivalist movement......
Fallacious argument. I propose that gold and silver are a hedge against disaster, a place to put the wealth you already have, not a way to make money.


Should you buy PM's?

*Are you out of debt?
*Got a real year supply of food?
*Safe place to go if something happens?
*Medical supplies and training?
*Weapons battery, logistics for same, training?
*Outdoor and other necessary clothing and gear?
*NBC preps?
*Water purifier, storage capabilities?
*Decent reference library?
I agree with the questions you pose here. That's why I said that priority should go to preps first. Reread my initial post.
 

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HANDY MAN
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Im passing through Dubai in about a month and Im really tempted to stop by the gold souk to grab an ounce or two...

I just dont trust the value will stay at what I'll pay.
 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Im passing through Dubai in about a month and Im really tempted to stop by the gold souk to grab an ounce or two...

I just dont trust the value will stay at what I'll pay.
That's a tough call. I would have no idea at what it would cost over there. In the end, I guess it depends on if you're purchasing as an investment or a long term store of your wealth and assets to diversify away from the dollar and the market.

______________________________________

"Civilize the mind, but make savage the body."
 

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HANDY MAN
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That's a tough call. I would have no idea at what it would cost over there. In the end, I guess it depends on if you're purchasing as an investment or a long term store of your wealth and assets to diversify away from the dollar and the market.

______________________________________

"Civilize the mind, but make savage the body."
As it stands today, I can grab an ounce for @$830 USD. I may just buy gold jewelry where I can pay by the gram and haggle a good price.

To buy an $830 ounce and only make $860 on a return is not worth the effort.

EHHhhh....we'll see
 

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dont buy gold now...its to late and the price is to high.the price per ounce is being driven up by people buying...sooooo...its a bubble jsut like houseing or any stock price people are tradeing on.that is what is driving price up.look for a gold chart and chart the price of gold .this will tell you the story of the price of gold.i posted the price of gold chart since 1970.from about mid 70's till the last couple of years it was 350ish to 450ish.....soooo...800 to 900 is way to much to pay for gold.do yourself a favor and pay any extra money on bills...food...tools...seeds...ammo..the average person will be beter off.

silver hit a high of 19 something...its now in the 10 to 11 range.i sold all i had and pocketed the profits.there was a time when silver was worthless...nobody wanted it at any price.
 

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Sapper- I can tell you have some pretty biased views for PM's, and it's clear I have some fairly biased views against them. We can debate the ISSUE without getting personal :thumb:

OK, so your argument is PM's are a "store of wealth." OK that's not exactly rocket science :D: ;) Many things can be looked at as a "store of wealth" including weapons, ammo, FOOD and of course all these things are USEFUL.

Unless you got some real world uses for gold besides filling teeth that most of us aren't trained to do, I'm afraid your not going to impress me with it actual uses.

The fact that trading in gold was outlawed during the last depression where the country was lead by another SOCIALIST, should be fair warning to folks looking to hoard gold simply for the investment value- or "store of wealth" value. Guess we can't use the word "investment" since I shot to hell that argument already. ;)

I'm glad we both agree that people should look at prepping FIRST as it's the food, weapons to protect the food, safe place for their family that is likely to be as important or more important than PM's.

So based on the "store of wealth" concept which is the one thing you seem to be repeating over and over, shouldn't that "store of wealth" keep up with INFLATION in order to be considered a "store of wealth?" If not then $3K under the mattress would also be a "store of wealth" and folks will be accepting CASH a good bit into most disasters. Why? Because the common thinking among the sheeple is that things will be better soon. Every one of them has been bred and taught to believe that Uncle Sugar will be rolling in to help them out with FEMA trucks and Red Cross donuts.

If your talking about having 20 Kruggerands in your basement just to say "well I have $16K worth of gold in the basement" I have no argument against that. I just hope that folks that do that sort of thing are out of debt and have their preps squared away before sinking serious money into them.

By far and large, a lot of people buy them thinking that it's going to make them the little Fuedal Lord of their neighborhood in the PAW. That's not speculation, unfortunately that comes from talking to many that FANTASIZE about crazy stuff like that....


PS- you seemed to take my first reply personally- don't, it isn't meant that way :thumb:

Lowdown3
 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
As it stands today, I can grab an ounce for @$830 USD. I may just buy gold jewelry where I can pay by the gram and haggle a good price.

To buy an $830 ounce and only make $860 on a return is not worth the effort.

EHHhhh....we'll see
Yeah, sounds like it would only be a good buy if you were going to hang on for the long haul.

Good luck.
 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sapper- I can tell you have some pretty biased views for PM's, and it's clear I have some fairly biased views against them. We can debate the ISSUE without getting personal :thumb:
Agree. Sorry. I guess I've gotten a bit sensitive by a few responses I've received by some other posters elsewhere.

OK, so your argument is PM's are a "store of wealth." OK that's not exactly rocket science :D: ;) Many things can be looked at as a "store of wealth" including weapons, ammo, FOOD and of course all these things are USEFUL.
Agree.

Unless you got some real world uses for gold besides filling teeth that most of us aren't trained to do, I'm afraid your not going to impress me with it actual uses.
Agree - to a point. However, gold and silver do have a myriad of technological applications - as does platinum and palladium. So their utility depends on whether or not the technologies industries break down or not.

The fact that trading in gold was outlawed during the last depression where the country was lead by another SOCIALIST, should be fair warning to folks looking to hoard gold simply for the investment value- or "store of wealth" value. Guess we can't use the word "investment" since I shot to hell that argument already. ;)
Agree.

I'm glad we both agree that people should look at prepping FIRST as it's the food, weapons to protect the food, safe place for their family that is likely to be as important or more important than PM's.
Agree.

So based on the "store of wealth" concept which is the one thing you seem to be repeating over and over, shouldn't that "store of wealth" keep up with INFLATION in order to be considered a "store of wealth?" If not then $3K under the mattress would also be a "store of wealth" and folks will be accepting CASH a good bit into most disasters. Why? Because the common thinking among the sheeple is that things will be better soon. Every one of them has been bred and taught to believe that Uncle Sugar will be rolling in to help them out with FEMA trucks and Red Cross donuts.
I'm not sure if it has to necessarily "keep up with inflation" EXACTLY, at least not in Sapper's world. Also, agree that some cash will likely have value. I would never recommend dumping all cash. Here's the problem with cash though, as I see it. Cash is based on faith. Its value as a commodity is limited to a 18 square inch piece of green paper. Gold has value, somewhat for its technological applications, but also for its rarity, beauty, etc. If in fact, the world degenerates simultaneously into a new Dark Age, then I agree that metals will not have a ton of value UNLESS certain communities pre-selected them for use as currency. But if said economic disaster is not entirely holistic and globally inclusive, then metals will likely retain value to someone. There has never been a time when metals have been worthless. But paper currencies are certainly subject to complete collapse.

If your talking about having 20 Kruggerands in your basement just to say "well I have $16K worth of gold in the basement" I have no argument against that. I just hope that folks that do that sort of thing are out of debt and have their preps squared away before sinking serious money into them.
Agree.

By far and large, a lot of people buy them thinking that it's going to make them the little Fuedal Lord of their neighborhood in the PAW. That's not speculation, unfortunately that comes from talking to many that FANTASIZE about crazy stuff like that....
Agree. And someone who is trying to squirrel away metals to make themselves king of their neighborhood is subject to a community wedgie. Not everyone (myself included) can go out and buy 20 Kruggerands. Just the same, not everyone can go out and buy six cows, ten goats, and four assault rifles. The person who is trying to use them to jockey for position in their community is not likely to be much of a value to the community in the end.

Sorry again to be so quick to debate, vice discuss. I've had some very unprofessional attacks to some of my opinions lately.
 

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Wide awake
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
dont buy gold now...its to late and the price is to high.the price per ounce is being driven up by people buying...sooooo...its a bubble jsut like houseing or any stock price people are tradeing on.that is what is driving price up.look for a gold chart and chart the price of gold .this will tell you the story of the price of gold.i posted the price of gold chart since 1970.from about mid 70's till the last couple of years it was 350ish to 450ish.....soooo...800 to 900 is way to much to pay for gold.do yourself a favor and pay any extra money on bills...food...tools...seeds...ammo..the average person will be beter off.

silver hit a high of 19 something...its now in the 10 to 11 range.i sold all i had and pocketed the profits.there was a time when silver was worthless...nobody wanted it at any price.
Perhaps, but somehow gold and silver haven't behaved like a bubble yet. Yes, they've gone up in price, but they're ridiculously low relative to the 80's recession. As I mentioned in my first post, they aren't a perfect hedge against inflation, but a good hedge agianst disaster. But if you take their price during the recession of the 80's and adjust for inflation, gold would be about $2200/ oz. right now. That's the difference. Its like saying that running shoes aren't a good bargain at 80 bucks right now, because they were 60 bucks ten fifteen years ago. You have to account for an inflated dollar. Remember, the CPI goes up like 3% or so each year! So many goods have gone up 60 percent since this time twenty years ago.

You may be right about a bubble burst. But I would hold onto metals for decades. If you buy them outright - free and clear - just like real estate, firearms or any other tangible, they should survive a bubble burst. They will go up and down, but they should survive just about anything just as they have for three millenia. I would never try to time this market with anything, including metals.
 
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