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Won' do ya much good up they ah seein's how you only got two seasons: Wintah and the ah fourth of July. and if'n it's snowin' you ain' gonna get 175 watts.
 

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Here's my safety Sir
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Christian
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""People might want to put up one, see if it works. Then with their next paycheck, they may buy four more," Cinnamon said"

who here has $4000.00 to spend per paycheck? LOL I can see a benefit of setting this up at my bol, With deep cycle batteries you could "backup" your bol with emergency power in the event the grid went down. Freezers, lights emergency communications etc. But I certainly would NOT pull a permit or tell the grid police I have the system installed.
 

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Is that a good cost-to-benefit ratio? I seem to remember finding better deals on the internet.
Would be a bit high if it were panels only. The article doesn't mention what method they're using to step the voltage or if the 175 watts is the low voltage panel rating or the actual output.

If it's 175 watts actual output then the price is pretty decent for plug and play type setup. If it's just the panel rating then the price is a bit high and the actual wattage you'd get from the panels is substantially lower.
 

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off-grid organic farmer
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Is that a good cost-to-benefit ratio? I seem to remember finding better deals on the internet.
eeeeh, no.

Allow me to explain. These units come with an internal inverter, so they make AC current. Which makes them easy in terms to being able to plug an appliance in to them. So you could run your PC during the day time with one.

I Live on a farm, I need to be doing stuff during the day, not messing on a PC. So I would need the PC on at night, when the solar array would be off.

Also I have a well. Wells are commonly 220VAC.

The common thing to do with solar is: they are all DC so wire them straight into a bank of car batteries. Charge up the batteries all day long, connected to a 120VAC inverter, you have electricity at night for your PC, or if you live near a city then even a TV.

From those batteries you can also have a 240VAC inverter for your well.

They are tried to market these in a manner to imply that they need no wiring.

But you can not combine two to make 240VAC, so their use is limited.

To charge a battery bank you would still need a charger, to convert [or rectify] the VAC to DC. That charger will consume 10% of the wattage. So by having an internal inverter it really screws you in terms of usefulness.
 

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off-grid organic farmer
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The 'ideal' setup is a couple photo arrays putting out DC charging a battery bank, a windmill putting out DC to charge the same bank, and a hydro-plant putting out DC to charge your battery bank.

Then one 120VAC inverter for each 15amp circuit in your house.

Plus on 240VAC inverter for your well.

In this manner you have access to 12VDC [for the really cool LED lighting in your home], and 120VAC for regular appliances, and 240VAC for stupid things like wells and some A/C units.

A single panel that has no battery, and includes it's own inverter is really kind of lame.
 

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Christian
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eeeeh, no.

Allow me to explain. These units come with an internal inverter, so they make AC current. Which makes them easy in terms to being able to plug an appliance in to them. So you could run your PC during the day time with one.

I Live on a farm, I need to be doing stuff during the day, not messing on a PC. So I would need the PC on at night, when the solar array would be off.

Also I have a well. Wells are commonly 220VAC.

The common thing to do with solar is: they are all DC so wire them straight into a bank of car batteries. Charge up the batteries all day long, connected to a 120VAC inverter, you have electricity at night for your PC, or if you live near a city then even a TV.

From those batteries you can also have a 240VAC inverter for your well.

They are tried to market these in a manner to imply that they need no wiring.

But you can not combine two to make 240VAC, so their use is limited.

To charge a battery bank you would still need a charger, to convert [or rectify] the VAC to DC. That charger will consume 10% of the wattage. So by having an internal inverter it really screws you in terms of usefulness.
The beauty of DC appliances. :thumb:
 

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A marketing gimmick to save a bit on you're electricity bill was my first thought. When it comes to going off the grid, this would not be the way to go at all. But for saving on you're electric bill it all depends upon on the actual usable output.
 

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Christian
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The 'ideal' setup is a couple photo arrays putting out DC charging a battery bank, a windmill putting out DC to charge the same bank, and a hydro-plant putting out DC to charge your battery bank.

Then one 120VAC inverter for each 15amp circuit in your house.

Plus on 240VAC inverter for your well.

In this manner you have access to 12VDC [for the really cool LED lighting in your home], and 120VAC for regular appliances, and 240VAC for stupid things like wells and some A/C units.

A single panel that has no battery, and includes it's own inverter is really kind of lame.
Im now wondering if there is a DC battery tie in? and not including the batteries is most likely a way to keep overall cost down, people new to solar may simply not realize they need something to store the energy at night. or then again depending on the limited use a day time solar system could be all that one needs. (depending on the use)
 

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off-grid organic farmer
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See, making power with an odd assortment of devices that are each making VAC, is a horrible nightmare. It takes a lot of equipment and inefficiencies to try and combine that power into a single buss, very expensive. You have to rectify each power source to DC, which is going to have losses and get it into a battery buss, then try.

We keep looking at small wind mills, small hydro-plants, small solar arrays, so long as none of them can power the entire home, then you must go DC.

DC requires much larger wiring, which is expensive. And the transmission lines can not be long, or else you again lose more power than your making.

We are looking at up to four small hydro-plants, but each site is separated by 100 yards or more. So for them, they may need to be AC just to get the power back to the house. Then to DC to be combined with the other sources.

One power source big enough to power a house, is going to be expensive.

Two of our neighbors are off-grid, they have nice setups. But expensive.
 

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off-grid organic farmer
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Im now wondering if there is a DC battery tie in? and not including the batteries is most likely a way to keep overall cost down, people new to solar may simply not realize they need something to store the energy at night. or then again depending on the limited use a day time solar system could be all that one needs. (depending on the use)
Yeah I know, go to bed when it gets dark, get up before the sun, ....

My Dw and I are both on a few homesteading forums. We talk to a few folks who use their solar power to run things, but usually they also have public utility providing them too.

One of my Dw's friends usually has 4 hours each night to run her PC and get online. But she has no other electric lights.
 

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Christian
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See, making power with an odd assortment of devices that are each making VAC, is a horrible nightmare. It takes a lot of equipment and inefficiencies to try and combine that power into a single buss, very expensive. You have to rectify each power source to DC, which is going to have losses and get it into a battery buss, then try.

We keep looking at small wind mills, small hydro-plants, small solar arrays, so long as none of them can power the entire home, then you must go DC.

DC requires much larger wiring, which is expensive. And the transmission lines can not be long, or else you again lose more power than your making.

We are looking at up to four small hydro-plants, but each site is separated by 100 yards or more. So for them, they may need to be AC just to get the power back to the house. Then to DC to be combined with the other sources.

One power source big enough to power a house, is going to be expensive.

Two of our neighbors are off-grid, they have nice setups. But expensive.
I’m trying to honestly think of what I would need to power (electrically)in a local or national SHTF.

With a bit of planning all our needs could be supplied with a small DC system. I look at it this way, if a RV can dun everything off dc and make you comfortable I should be able to do it in my BOL. and not too expensively.

Now to be specific I am not talking about sharing the solar / wind / hydro generation system with the grid, but "switching over" the grid feed to my off grid feed during this time.

Do you still think it will be cost prohibitive?
 
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off-grid organic farmer
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I’m trying to honestly think of what I would need to power (electrically)in a local or national SHTF.

With a bit of planning all our needs could be supplied with a small DC system. I look at it this way, if a RV can dun everything off dc and make you comfortable I should be able to do it in my BOL. and not too expensively.

Now to be specific I am not talking about sharing the solar / wind / hydro generation system with the grid, but "switching over" the grid feed to my off grid feed during this time.

Do you still think it will be cost prohibitive?
I do not know.

Your needs are different from mine.

You are looking at a SHTF scene where you might be inconvenienced for a few days to a few weeks, and you would only need to opearte one appliance at a time, during day light hours.

I don't see that as a real 'need'.

I lived on FBM subs for years with nuclear armed missiles aimed at our nation's enemies, many times during my career we were very much at the brink of launching those missiles. Being within the military intelligence community, I saw how often nations send their subs into our harbors, how often guys get busted while hauling tonnes of explosives or nerve agents across our borders. I am utterly amazed that our nation has lasted so long without major destruction and calamity. Our forces, both military and LEO have done an excellent job of locating and busting domestic and foreign terrorists, and yet very little ever gets published of any of it.

Every year there are folks coming up with attacks that should cripple our nation, but folks tend to be incompetent. As our leaders show us all of the time, as they climb to ever higher levels of incompetency. So I can not say who is more incompetent; our leaders or our enemies.

Whether the SHTF is going to be: economic, or biological, or nuclear, or chemical, or tyrannical; I do not know.

But one of these days, ...

How can so many wobbling un-supported ready to collapse bridges can remain in the air?

And which is going to collapse first?

Consider the Oklahoma City bombing of a Fed building. One goof-ball blows up a bomb outside, and while searching through the rubble they find 4 more bombs that had been placed in the basement. The goof-ball had never been in that city before, he had never been in the building. He had no connection to the internal bombs. So multiple groups were each planning to blow-up that one building. One group blew-up the face of the building, before the other group was fully prepared to set off their bombs. What a bizarre calamity.

So how many Fed buildings do you guess have had bombs placed in them?

The Media will never know, so 'we' will never know.

But we all should know, that if that one building has been picked by two different groups to be bombed, then it is very likely that a large percentage of Fed buildings at some point have had bombs being put in them.



I am sorry, I get off-topic.

You see the need to prepare for short-term calamity.

I see the need to prepare for long-term calamity.

So I have a farm, and I am working on the ability to feed a group of people indefinitely.
 

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Trump=WhiteObama=BlkBush
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""People might want to put up one, see if it works. Then with their next paycheck, they may buy four more," Cinnamon said"

who here has $4000.00 to spend per paycheck? LOL I can see a benefit of setting this up at my bol, With deep cycle batteries you could "backup" your bol with emergency power in the event the grid went down. Freezers, lights emergency communications etc. But I certainly would NOT pull a permit or tell the grid police I have the system installed.
I posted this site in its own thread, but here's a link about this guy's power plant. They live in this year round which is too rustic for me but for a BOL, this would work very well and only cost a few thousand dollars start to finish.

http://www.coyotecottage.com/powerplant/system.htm
 

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small "l" libertarian
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Yea, it's a novel idea, but hardly practical, at least not if you want power at night.

I'm still waiting for solar panels to become less expensive, not easier to install.
 

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Christian
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I posted this site in its own thread, but here's a link about this guy's power plant. They live in this year round which is too rustic for me but for a BOL, this would work very well and only cost a few thousand dollars start to finish.

http://www.coyotecottage.com/powerplant/system.htm
nice article, I am working on the paycheck to paycheck version of solar power, a little at a time, and add devices as I have the available power.

My first solar project was my oldest daughter’s fridge, she is Type I diabetic and needs to keep her insulin cool. Next I started "mini" solar recharge stations for IPods and cell phones and emergency radios and battery chargers, all small and independent.

I will eventually gain off the grid sustainability through a combination of solar and wind generation, at least thats the plan :)
 
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Little math I pay 8 Cents a kilowatt 1000/175wats per panel=5.71 hours of use to get 8 cents credit therefore with 893.00/.08=11162.3 at 8 cnets a kilowatt would need to be used to save money so 11162.3x5.71hours=63736.73 hours of use to break even at 8 cents per kilowatt. Therfore with 8760 hours in a year would figure 63736.733/8760=7.27 years to pay for on a 24 hour a day run. So If 12 hours of daylight was used every day, it would take 14 1/2 years to break even. However as rates went up per Kilowatt the time span for break even would come down.
However for alternate power or rural applications with a Battery pack it would be worth its weight in Gold to me, to have something over nothing. Lights, tool use, refrigeration, communication, charging batteries, water pump, small appliances,.etc etc. Makes wind with a 1000-2500 watt application more interesting, if the wind was sustainable, in the area of use. plus it could be used at night if the wind was blowing.
 
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