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American fearmaker
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Sounds like the Air Police or Security Police from a nearby base was conducting an on-going investigation into missing/stolen firearms or military equipment. And that kind of investigation is 100% legal and does not violate the Posse Commitatus Act. If you steal military stuff you can be investigated and arrested by the military police and then charged under federal laws/statutes. And this is the kind of raid where the federal government ends up owning a gun store too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sounds like the Air Police or Security Police from a nearby base was conducting an on-going investigation into missing/stolen firearms or military equipment. And that kind of investigation is 100% legal and does not violate the Posse Commitatus Act. If you steal military stuff you can be investigated and arrested by the military police and then charged under federal laws/statutes. And this is the kind of raid where the federal government ends up owning a gun store too.
That is incorrect, one should also note you site no precedent or evidence of legal precedent.

You can be investigated and arrested by Military Police if you commit a crime. They cannot affect an arrest outside of Military, or in some instances Federal property. The arrest and the prosecution of the arrest has to take place by LEO's at a Federal or Local level. They are required to obtain assistance from local authorities. The existence of federal items on civilian property does not convert the property to federal property.

The issue here is the Air Force showing up and participating in the RAID (with full combat gear) with Local Authorities and the FBI.

Police on a military base are members of the military assigned to police duty. Their job is to maintain order and keep other military and non-military base visitors and residents safe. This means that they have the power to enforce military rules. The power of a military base police officer only extends to the boundaries of the base. This means that when off the base, the office cannot arrest you.

CID and Investigative departments routinely conduct investigations that lead off of base and ALWAYS work with local authorities when an arrest needs to be made.

In this situation the military Investigators could be present, but could not back up the raid in a position to affect arrest.
 

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Survivus most anythingus
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That is incorrect, one should also note you site no precedent or evidence of legal precedent.

You can be investigated and arrested by Military Police if you commit a crime. They cannot affect an arrest outside of Military, or in some instances Federal property. The arrest and the prosecution of the arrest has to take place by LEO's at a Federal or Local level. They are required to obtain assistance from local authorities. The existence of federal items on civilian property does not convert the property to federal property.

The issue here is the Air Force showing up and participating in the RAID (with full combat gear) with Local Authorities and the FBI.

Police on a military base are members of the military assigned to police duty. Their job is to maintain order and keep other military and non-military base visitors and residents safe. This means that they have the power to enforce military rules. The power of a military base police officer only extends to the boundaries of the base. This means that when off the base, the office cannot arrest you.

CID and Investigative departments routinely conduct investigations that lead off of base and ALWAYS work with local authorities when an arrest needs to be made.

In this situation the military Investigators could be present, but could not back up the raid in a position to affect arrest.
Correct. Just because some ignorant skank stole something from the Air Force doesn't give the Air Force to right to do anything off-base. They can go investigate and the rest of it, but as far as doing this? No way. They could be on premises when the warrant was executed to identify stolen Government property and that's about it.

If they were allowed to do it, they will get away with it under the guise and B.S. of "professional courtesy" or "training."

That's why the country is tanking, no one really follows the rules anymore.
 

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:confused:

Granted I don't scour the news sites looking for possible violations of the Posse Comitatus Act, but it sure does strike me as odd that any branch of the military would be allowed to participate in a civilian warrant execution and arrest...

This "'passive' support role" doesn't warm my heart either. I remember the news images from Kent State. :(
 

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American fearmaker
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That is incorrect, one should also note you site no precedent or evidence of legal precedent.

Legal precedent? You're from Seattle for crying out loud. They don't have laws there, just group hugs. I don't HAVE to prove anything because I've been doing the job for a little over 40 years. As is customary in the U.S. since you made the allegation that I was wrong, YOU have to provide the evidence that contradicts me. Now keep in mind that most state laws define police officers as any city, county, township, state and FEDERAL law enforcement personnel. Military police are defined as being a form of FEDERAL law enforcement and many take training at FLETC in Georgia. Ooops. You didn't know about FLETC?

http://www.fletc.gov/training

And then there is the definition of federal police agencies. Look down about half way on the list of agencies. See all the military police groups listed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_law_enforcement_agencies

You obviously forgot that Homeland Security has changed the way things are done by all the different FEDERAL groups to include the military. Check out the RAID Teams put into place by the U.S. Army. After 9-11 the federal government completely and quietly changed the role of the military services so that they could operate INSIDE of the U.S. borders to fight terrorism. If you ever get the chance, the RAID Teams are set up to take care of any chemical, nuclear or biological warfare incident that happens in the U.S. These teams also have the power to arrest and detain anybody thought to be involved in such an event.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=350

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/wmd-cst.htm

Because of changes quietly implemented through the Dept. of Homeland Security a few years ago, all military police groups can make arrests inside of the United States. That's also why the USCG (U.S. Coast Guard) was transferred from the Treasury Department to the Department of Homeland Security.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Coast_Guard

And you were saying?????
 

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Oh boy! Talk about the tin foil hat stuff going silly!

I live near what were Ft. Lewis and McCord Airforce Base and and I can remember going back to the 1970's the CID, MPI and whatever the Airforce calls their equiv working with local law enforcement, just as seen in those clips, to recover stolen military property from individuals and businesses. I personally watched them get a guy who was stealing property from Ft. Lewis at the Starlite swap meet back in around 1987 with Feds, MPI, and Pierce County deputies coming in on that one.

This isn't a violation of posse comitatus or anything like that...and such comments are silly and show a person is new to things in the world.

We have some hyper, ignorant folks who panic easily at 'ho hum' stuff that's been seen by others for many, many years.
 

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Oh boy! Talk about the tin foil hat stuff going silly!

This isn't a violation of posse comitatus or anything like that...and such comments are silly and show a person is new to things in the world.

We have some hyper, ignorant folks who panic easily at 'ho hum' stuff that's been seen by others for many, many years.
Sometimes I wear my tin foil hat and sometimes I don't. [sung to the tune of "Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't.] :D:

Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is for life.

And since I haven't lived near a military base since 1996, I plead ignorance. Not hyper-ignorance. Just ignorance.

Then there is this:

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty; power is ever stealing from the many to the few.
-- Wendell Phillips
 

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That is incorrect, one should also note you site no precedent or evidence of legal precedent.

Legal precedent? You're from Seattle for crying out loud. They don't have laws there, just group hugs. I don't HAVE to prove anything because I've been doing the job for a little over 40 years. As is customary in the U.S. since you made the allegation that I was wrong, YOU have to provide the evidence that contradicts me. Now keep in mind that most state laws define police officers as any city, county, township, state and FEDERAL law enforcement personnel. Military police are defined as being a form of FEDERAL law enforcement and many take training at FLETC in Georgia. Ooops. You didn't know about FLETC?

http://www.fletc.gov/training

And then there is the definition of federal police agencies. Look down about half way on the list of agencies. See all the military police groups listed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_law_enforcement_agencies

You obviously forgot that Homeland Security has changed the way things are done by all the different FEDERAL groups to include the military. Check out the RAID Teams put into place by the U.S. Army. After 9-11 the federal government completely and quietly changed the role of the military services so that they could operate INSIDE of the U.S. borders to fight terrorism. If you ever get the chance, the RAID Teams are set up to take care of any chemical, nuclear or biological warfare incident that happens in the U.S. These teams also have the power to arrest and detain anybody thought to be involved in such an event.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=350

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/wmd-cst.htm

Because of changes quietly implemented through the Dept. of Homeland Security a few years ago, all military police groups can make arrests inside of the United States. That's also why the USCG (U.S. Coast Guard) was transferred from the Treasury Department to the Department of Homeland Security.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Coast_Guard

And you were saying?????
Your point here seems to be that the Posse Comitatus Act is superseded by new law and has never been challenged in court yet. I suppose I can agree with this, especially considering that the federal government gets away with far worse. However there just needs to be a legal challenge to this and then the new laws can either be struck down or supported. Naturally the federal courts have no incentive to act or at least act quickly.
 

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Instead of folks flying off the handle, why don't they just ask folks 'is this really unusual, I'm asking because this is new to me.' To which the response would be 'nah, nothing too unusual. Sometimes it's a very serious case, but this happens periodically.'

In the long term, with all these hyper panics, some folks, if they're honest with themselves are going to realize they were being rather foolish.
 

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Oh boy! Talk about the tin foil hat stuff going silly!

I live near what were Ft. Lewis and McCord Airforce Base and and I can remember going back to the 1970's the CID, MPI and whatever the Airforce calls their equiv working with local law enforcement, just as seen in those clips, to recover stolen military property from individuals and businesses. I personally watched them get a guy who was stealing property from Ft. Lewis at the Starlite swap meet back in around 1987 with Feds, MPI, and Pierce County deputies coming in on that one.

This isn't a violation of posse comitatus or anything like that...and such comments are silly and show a person is new to things in the world.

We have some hyper, ignorant folks who panic easily at 'ho hum' stuff that's been seen by others for many, many years.
If the air force goes out into the community to enforce civilian laws and this to you isn't a violation of Posse Comitatus, then what is? Are you suggesting there is no such law or are you saying that it enforces different limitations than what everyone believes it does. There are a whole lot of people that believe it does in fact prevent the use of the military as civilian police. If what you're saying is that I could be pulled over by an MP tomorrow for speeding, then I will indeed be surprised.
 

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If the air force goes out into the community to enforce civilian laws and this to you isn't a violation of Posse Comitatus, then what is? Are you suggesting there is no such law or are you saying that it enforces different limitations than what everyone believes it does. There are a whole lot of people that believe it does in fact prevent the use of the military as civilian police. If what you're saying is that I could be pulled over by an MP tomorrow for speeding, then I will indeed be surprised.
If?? Nah, this is supposed to be about what happened.

If little gray aliens come visit everyone last night, then everyone got visited by little gray aliens, but that didn't happen and neither did the Airforce violate of the Posse Comitatus.
 
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