advice setting up bugout community

4048 Views 46 Replies 21 Participants Last post by Caseyboy, Jan 10, 2014

kevincor

Discussion Starter · Jan 6, 2014

Hi,
I have a opportunity to be instrumental in establishing a bugout retreat but want to proceed carefully and with wisdom.

My family has been praying for a retreat opportunity for some time. I recently had a conversation with an owner of a large cattle farm who is interested in establishing a prepper retreat on his land. His land looks like a good spot - lots of acreage, water, game, defensible, some miles from population centers and highways (google earth view so far - going out to see it in the next couple weeks). He said he doesn't need money or equipment but rather he needs people.

Also, I am involved with a couple of prepper groups that each have several people who would be very interested in participating and contributing to a retreat. And I am VERY interested in making this happen.

I think all the ingredients are present to establish a vibrant self-sustaining retreat community. My issues/questions are on how to proceed such that both the land owner and the individuals and their assets and contributions are protected. I want to make it such that we can gather people who are serious and committed but not scare away people either.

The land owner is wide open to suggestions/proposals.

I would like to come up with a framework for a community agreement with written expectations and goals. While I wouldn't expect the landowner to give up his rights as the land owner, community members would need assurances that they had access rights once they reach some benchmark of commitment.

Does anyone know if some such document exists that I could use as a starting point? Even if the basic concepts for such a community were articulated somewhere, we could come up with any agreements ourselves.
Thanks,
Kevin

Reactions: 1

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

Kiljoy616

· #2 · Jan 6, 2014

kevincor said:
Hi,
I have a opportunity to be instrumental in establishing a bugout retreat but want to proceed carefully and with wisdom.

My family has been praying for a retreat opportunity for some time. I recently had a conversation with an owner of a large cattle farm who is interested in establishing a prepper retreat on his land. His land looks like a good spot - lots of acreage, water, game, defensible, some miles from population centers and highways (google earth view so far - going out to see it in the next couple weeks). He said he doesn't need money or equipment but rather he needs people.

Also, I am involved with a couple of prepper groups that each have several people who would be very interested in participating and contributing to a retreat. And I am VERY interested in making this happen.

I think all the ingredients are present to establish a vibrant self-sustaining retreat community. My issues/questions are on how to proceed such that both the land owner and the individuals and their assets and contributions are protected. I want to make it such that we can gather people who are serious and committed but not scare away people either.

The land owner is wide open to suggestions/proposals.

I would like to come up with a framework for a community agreement with written expectations and goals. While I wouldn't expect the landowner to give up his rights as the land owner, community members would need assurances that they had access rights once they reach some benchmark of commitment.

Does anyone know if some such document exists that I could use as a starting point? Even if the basic concepts for such a community were articulated somewhere, we could come up with any agreements ourselves.
Thanks,
Kevin

I am confused, is he part of your Prepping group or just some guy/owner/Land Barron would be the tittle after SHTF, maybe?

A contract can be done by an attorney in real estate law, I would get one if your going to play in someone else land, last thing you want is him getting ****ed at you for one reason or another and going all "you kids get off my land."

:

After a SHTF contracts will be meaningless and of no use, he can pretty much say NO to your group, and you would have no real recourse except well leave

or expend some ammo

I am not a fan of people I don't know or trust been the owners of a place I am going to bug out to. I rather have 1 archer to go to; than a 1000 that is not mine to start with. But that is just me.

Reactions: 4

zaptain

· #3 · Jan 6, 2014

have your shelter moveable so when/if you want to leave for what for reason that is more easy
the concept is good i am caretaker on a prep farm all members have mobile accomadation. There are common gardens aswell as private gardens, fruit trees the same.
tools are private but shared around alot. close by there is another prep community which is hard to join 1 year trial and then all members must agree to the new member and then you can build a real house if you leave you can sell it only to a member
good luck this sounds like a great chance.

Reactions: 1

Nomad 2nd

· #4 · Jan 6, 2014

Don't

Words words and more words

Reactions: 2

IamZeke

· #5 · Jan 6, 2014

If you don't own the land then you have no authority when the owner asserts his will on your family's fallback retreat.

Buy your own land.

Reactions: 3

goose3

· #6 · Jan 6, 2014

Are you going to place religious restrictions on people?

I noted that you have "been praying for a retreat opportunity for some time." I personally don't subscribe to formal religion--would I be a person you might be interested in or would I have to subscribe to your religion and engage in your religious rites before I'd be a candidate?

I'd like to think I'd be someone with whom others might wish to ally themselves in a SHTF environment. They might say "That Goose--he's really well-prepared. He has the big six in place, he's got a lot of reloading experience and the equipment and the components, he's bought high-quality stuff where it counts, he's in shape, he's well-read, he's thoughtful (mostly), and he'd be a great addition to our community!"

Or would they say "Yeah, he's all of the above--but since his spiritual views don't completely align with mine, he's OUT!"

Reactions: 2

kevincor

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 6, 2014

Kiljoy,
The landowner does not belong to the same prepper group as me. He lives about 2 hours from me.

kevincor

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jan 6, 2014

In that situation, who owns the land the retreat is on? Do you know what kind of agreement they have between the owner and other members? Interesting about a waiting period and a community vote to join up.

kevincor

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jan 6, 2014

No way I can afford to purchase anything even close to workable as this. Also, most of the people who would be involved couldn't afford such a purchase. And if I am envisioning a community living on a retreat, there needs to be some sort of arrangement where we can successfully take advantage of an offer like this. There must be hundreds of people who have encountered this issue before and figured out how to make it work. I just don't want to "reinvent the wheel".

Reactions: 1

MichaelK

· #10 · Jan 6, 2014

I would never ever get into any kind of land agreement where I did not have absolute total individual control over what was being done on the land.

This is the primary reason I've devoted all my scarce resources into paying for my BOL and owning it free and clear.

Reactions: 3

ZombieHoneyBadger

· #11 · Jan 6, 2014

goose3 said:
Are you going to place religious restrictions on people?

I noted that you have "been praying for a retreat opportunity for some time." I personally don't subscribe to formal religion--would I be a person you might be interested in or would I have to subscribe to your religion and engage in your religious rites before I'd be a candidate?

I'd like to think I'd be someone with whom others might wish to ally themselves in a SHTF environment. They might say "That Goose--he's really well-prepared. He has the big six in place, he's got a lot of reloading experience and the equipment and the components, he's bought high-quality stuff where it counts, he's in shape, he's well-read, he's thoughtful (mostly), and he'd be a great addition to our community!"

Or would they say "Yeah, he's all of the above--but since his spiritual views don't completely align with mine, he's OUT!"

Wow, young fella- why would you come up with such a "are y'all a bunch of religious bigots who would reject me?" kind of response to the bare fact that the OP and friends prayed for help in finding a BOL?

Lots of people pray, every day, without being the least bit interested in the state of other people's salvation. Still, if people are more comfortable in a SHTF scenario with those folks with whom they share values, why are you so concerned about it?

Should people ask YOU if your obvious religious intolerance would cause any trouble in a group?

Reactions: 3

kevincor

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 6, 2014

goose3 said:
Are you going to place religious restrictions on people?

I noted that you have "been praying for a retreat opportunity for some time." I personally don't subscribe to formal religion--would I be a person you might be interested in or would I have to subscribe to your religion and engage in your religious rites before I'd be a candidate?

I'd like to think I'd be someone with whom others might wish to ally themselves in a SHTF environment. They might say "That Goose--he's really well-prepared. He has the big six in place, he's got a lot of reloading experience and the equipment and the components, he's bought high-quality stuff where it counts, he's in shape, he's well-read, he's thoughtful (mostly), and he'd be a great addition to our community!"

Or would they say "Yeah, he's all of the above--but since his spiritual views don't completely align with mine, he's OUT!"

While I am a Christian believer, I don't envision this being a religious retreat. Currently, I am involved in different groups (prepper, work, neighborhood) which have members of different faiths. We seem to get along fine. Good point though. It sure is pretty cool to see God's answer to prayer though.

This guy is kind of what you described as "the Goose". He has a nice set up and seems to have a generous warm attitude. He doesn't have a specific arrangement in mind either. He just wants it to work. I think it is a great opportunity. I just want to do it smart.

Reactions: 2

ZombieHoneyBadger

· #13 · Jan 6, 2014

Incidentally, OP, you can negotiate a 99-yr lease (or 25, or 50) for your acreage with the land owner that will be as legal as any agreement to sell. It doesn't have to be fee-simple.

Reactions: 4

kevincor

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 6, 2014

ZombieHoneyBadger said:
Incidentally, OP, you can negotiate a 99-yr lease (or 25, or 50) for your acreage with the land owner that will be as legal as any agreement to sell. It doesn't have to be fee-simple.

Interesting. I wonder if each community member could have a separate individual agreement/lease with the guy. There could be some money involved but not as much as purchasing. We could also include the community agreement at the same time.

greenhorn

· #15 · Jan 6, 2014

I think you seek a "Exclusive Easement" or a "Lease" for what you Describe. Do not use a Oral Contract it has no legal clout.

Reactions: 1

greenhorn

· #16 · Jan 6, 2014

MichaelK said:
I would never ever get into any kind of land agreement where I did not have absolute total individual control over what was being done on the land.

This is the primary reason I've devoted all my scarce resources into paying for my BOL and owning it free and clear.

Words of Wisdom to learn from....

Just Jeff

· #17 · Jan 6, 2014

Helluva commitment to make to a total stranger.

If he were willing to subdivide his land into small plots that could be sold to hand-picked residents, it might be worth considering. That way you'd OWN the plot in case the relationship ever went south, and y'all could slowly create a community of like-minded people that is based on recognized private property rights, rather than a feudal landlord-tenant relationship.

I'm guessing the chances of that are near-zero...but maybe not.

Edit: HAHA - while I was typing, other folks said basically the same thing. I'd be interested in the lease arrangement, but I'd be very clear about developing the land. E.g., what happens to structures when the lease expires? Maybe a lease/purchase would be workable.

kevincor

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jan 6, 2014

Just Jeff said:
Helluva commitment to make to a total stranger.

If he were willing to subdivide his land into small plots that could be sold to hand-picked residents, it might be worth considering. That way you'd OWN the plot in case the relationship ever went south, and y'all could slowly create a community of like-minded people that is based on recognized private property rights, rather than a feudal landlord-tenant relationship.

I'm guessing the chances of that are near-zero...but maybe not.

Edit: HAHA - while I was typing, other folks said basically the same thing. I'd be interested in the lease arrangement, but I'd be very clear about developing the land. E.g., what happens to structures when the lease expires? Maybe a lease/purchase would be workable.

Actually, he is willing to sell individual lots but the local zoning requires a minimum lot size of 10 acres. The cost of such a purchase might limit the number of participants. There are a lot of good talented people who don't have the finances to prep and also purchase 10 acres (I would fall into that group). He did mention that he is not interested in selling a single lot to somebody and that be the end of it. Having a single neighbor on a 10 acre lot would not do anybody any good. He is looking to establish a community.

Reactions: 1

kevincor

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jan 6, 2014

greenhorn said:
I think you seek a "Exclusive Easement" or a "Lease" for what you Describe. Do not use a Oral Contract it has no legal clout.

"Exclusive Easement" or a "Lease". That sounds like something I should look up.

goose3

· #20 · Jan 6, 2014

ZombieHoneyBadger said:
Wow, young fella- why would you come up with such a "are y'all a bunch of religious bigots who would reject me?" kind of response to the bare fact that the OP and friends prayed for help in finding a BOL?

Lots of people pray, every day, without being the least bit interested in the state of other people's salvation. Still, if people are more comfortable in a SHTF scenario with those folks with whom they share values, why are you so concerned about it?

Should people ask YOU if your obvious religious intolerance would cause any trouble in a group?

Wow.

I don't think it was a bad supposition that someone who prays for a BOL is going to have other religious-determined behaviors and beliefs. And oddly enough, those might not be consistent with my beliefs.

I don't have a problem with what others do, until and unless they demand I do the same. Would you agree that's a good attitude to have?

The OP wasn't apparently considering something that is obvious to those of us with more experience, i.e., groups need one of two things to be successful: great tolerance of each other, or consistency in values.

I'm not intolerant of religion at all. I don't post in the religious section, never even look in there.

But I would ask that you demonstrate the same tolerance you seem to be demanding in me. The fact that I don't pray every day is not a character flaw. I have drawn different conclusions about the world, and otherworldly influences upon it, than have others. I just don't spend any time trying to demonstrate the basis of those views.

Can you tolerate that?

And the question is still valid: will the OP expect that others conform to his religious views in such a group? By his answer above, no. Maybe he's got room for the ol' Goose.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.