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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, tonight I was assaulted in broad daylight, because a couple of thugs wanted to make a statement in front of a crowd. Long story short, I walked my girlfriend to the car after going out. As soon as I get her in the car, the two guys approach me. One video taping the situation and one getting in my face about, whatever he was upset about.

My girlfriend did well, she locked the door and got 911 ready to dial on her phone. I got head butted directly in the mouth, while she was doing that. I pushed the guy away and got in the car and locked the doors. The guy kicked and threw chunks of concrete at the driver door (I was in the dicier seat.) and damaged the car pretty badly.

I'll be honest, my pride is a little hurt right now, and I am in need of guidance and/or reassurance (if applicable).

My questions are:

Did I respond correctly by avoiding the fight? Or should I have fought back?

I am now putting much more thought into a concealed carry weapon. Probably a small caliber loaded with fmjs. (I want to defuse situations if need be, not kill the guy with one shot)

Should we contact the insurance company immediately, or wait in hopes of catching the bad guy and pressing charges?

What could/should I have done differently or better?
 

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.
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So, tonight I was assaulted in broad daylight, because a couple of thugs wanted to make a statement in front of a crowd. Long story short, I walked my girlfriend to the car after going out. As soon as I get her in the car, the two guys approach me. One video taping the situation and one getting in my face about, whatever he was upset about.

My girlfriend did well, she locked the door and got 911 ready to dial on her phone. I got head butted directly in the mouth, while she was doing that. I pushed the guy away and got in the car and locked the doors. The guy kicked and threw chunks of concrete at the driver door (I was in the dicier seat.) and damaged the car pretty badly.

I'll be honest, my pride is a little hurt right now, and I am in need of guidance and/or reassurance (if applicable).

My questions are:





Did I respond correctly by avoiding the fight? Or should I have fought back?

I am now putting much more thought into a concealed carry weapon. Probably a small caliber loaded with fmjs. (I want to defuse situations if need be, not kill the guy with one shot)

Should we contact the insurance company immediately, or wait in hopes of catching the bad guy and pressing charges?

What could/should I have done differently or better?

If you're not ready to take a Life, and intend to use a Weapon to Intimidate, Wound or Maim, then a Gun is not for you. Maybe you should get a Tazer and some Mace.
Better yet, Move to a place where you don't get randomly assaulted by Thugs.
 

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Come and Take It!
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So, tonight I was assaulted in broad daylight, because a couple of thugs wanted to make a statement in front of a crowd. Long story short, I walked my girlfriend to the car after going out. As soon as I get her in the car, the two guys approach me. One video taping the situation and one getting in my face about, whatever he was upset about.

My girlfriend did well, she locked the door and got 911 ready to dial on her phone. I got head butted directly in the mouth, while she was doing that. I pushed the guy away and got in the car and locked the doors. The guy kicked and threw chunks of concrete at the driver door (I was in the dicier seat.) and damaged the car pretty badly.

I'll be honest, my pride is a little hurt right now, and I am in need of guidance and/or reassurance (if applicable).

My questions are:

Did I respond correctly by avoiding the fight? Or should I have fought back?

I am now putting much more thought into a concealed carry weapon. Probably a small caliber loaded with fmjs. (I want to defuse situations if need be, not kill the guy with one shot)

Should we contact the insurance company immediately, or wait in hopes of catching the bad guy and pressing charges?

What could/should I have done differently or better?
If you have to use a firearm you have to shoot to stop your assailant. Never shoot to disable, scare or warn ......SHOOT TO STOP.

To shoot to stop you shoot centerline and center of body mass. If 2 shots don't stop the assault then shoot for the center of the head.

If the time has arrived that you have to use deadly force (using any firearm is always legally considered deadly force) you have to shoot to stop the assault.

If he survives and was stopped it is a bonus for him.....if he dies it was his fault and you were only trying to stop his deadly assault.
 

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THE CHAMPION®
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So, tonight I was assaulted in broad daylight, because a couple of thugs wanted to make a statement in front of a crowd. Long story short, I walked my girlfriend to the car after going out. As soon as I get her in the car, the two guys approach me. One video taping the situation and one getting in my face about, whatever he was upset about.

My girlfriend did well, she locked the door and got 911 ready to dial on her phone. I got head butted directly in the mouth, while she was doing that. I pushed the guy away and got in the car and locked the doors. The guy kicked and threw chunks of concrete at the driver door (I was in the dicier seat.) and damaged the car pretty badly.

I'll be honest, my pride is a little hurt right now, and I am in need of guidance and/or reassurance (if applicable).

My questions are:

Did I respond correctly by avoiding the fight? Or should I have fought back?

I am now putting much more thought into a concealed carry weapon. Probably a small caliber loaded with fmjs. (I want to defuse situations if need be, not kill the guy with one shot)

Should we contact the insurance company immediately, or wait in hopes of catching the bad guy and pressing charges?

What could/should I have done differently or better?
Sorry to hear about your situation. Doesn't sound like there was much you could do. You can always fight back but unless you can take them out then there is a good chance it would've ended worse for you.

Concerning the CCL. Guns aren't for defusing, they are for poking holes. If it comes out then you need to fire it. Period. If you weren't in a enough danger that you needed to fire it you weren't in enough danger to pull it out.

Contact insurance company now. Even if you press charges insurance still needs to be notified.

If I were you biggest thing I'd do differently is work on my situational awareness. They wouldn't have been able to get close enough to headbutt you if you had already seen them coming.
 

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Honey badger don't care
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Mesa, Lone Star and Jungleboy have given you sound advice. Nothing more need be said about that.
Keep your eyes on Youtube for the video. When it pops up (it will) you can have the authorities use that information to catch the bad guys.
By the way, chunks of concrete being hurled at you (even in a car) is assault with a deadly weapon. I can't say without being there but it sounds as if your life was in danger. You very well may have had the right to defend yourself with lethal force. Head on a swivel, watch your 6.
 

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Guns aren't for defusing and scaring people off and never fire a warning shot because that will get you in trouble. If you feel the need to draw your weapon then you better kill what is standing in front of you. Dead men tell no tales, imagine how much worse it would have been for zimmerman if trayvon lived. In the perfect world you would have been able to waste those punks and informed the police to come collect their bodies and live happily ever after.
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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A gun is certainly not always the answer.

(Knowing nothing more than what is in your OP,) in the scenario you outlined it sounds like one guy was recording the entire episode on a camera, while the other verbally and physically assaulted you (but was not himself brandishing any weapon).

Yeah, you COULD shoot him - but it would be on camera, and regardless of the outcome it could get real expensive real fast. Did you truly feel you were in immediate danger of being killed?

A pistol can calm things down quickly - so long as you're ready to use it (as the others said above). But pulling one out if you're not intending to use it can escalate the situation quickly too.

Best bet is to have SOME sort of intermediate force, non-lethal weapon. The new pepper foam sprays are extremely effective, plus you can spray the SOB with the camera as well. Let them put that on You Tube, while they're howling in the background.

If you want to leave more lingering damage, get something like an ASP collapsible baton. If you're properly trained with one you can provide a warm welcome to the House of Pain, but it's nowhere near the same as shooting someone.

The point is to have other options in the future, but not necessarily (or only) lethal ones.

(And to address your first question, IMHO avoiding the fight is always a better option - there's no telling what damage might happen in the fight. Fight if you HAVE to; don't fight if you don't have to. That's why they make pepper spray!)

Just an opinion...
 

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If, after consideration, you feel you can be responsible with a firearm, I think carrying one would be a good idea. I would give that advice to anyone. Ideally, I think everyone who can responsibly handle a firearm should carry one at all times. You can rest assured that the thugs you encountered would find a different way to annoy society if that were the case.

I don't know where you live. Some states make concealed carry practically impossible. I will assume that you are not in such a state, and it is feasible for you to get a concealed carry permit that is valid where you live and spend most of your time.

My thoughts on the incident and your post:
1 - As others have said, your plan to "only" shoot FMJ needs to be rethought. All else being equal, a hollowpoint is more likely to cause a catastrophic loss of blood pressure that will put the thug on the ground. Your goal if you are forced to fire your weapon is to put the thug on the ground as rapidly as possible. Any caliber and any bullet type MAY achieve this, but you improve your odds with good hollowpoints. I carry Hornady Critical Defense in my .38 Special pocket revolver, and Federal Hydra-Shok 225gr in my .45 M&P. Nothing is guaranteed, but you need every possible factor in your favor. The thug's death is not a goal (at least, it's not mine and it doesn't need to be yours), but stopping him in 1-2 seconds is an important goal. It is possible for an assailant to continue attacking for 20-30 seconds after being shot, depending on shot location, bullet type, caliber, the thug's mental state etc.

2 - In this incident, what would you have done if you had a firearm? Leaving the situation was probably a better move, even if you had a gun in your pocket. Reading the description, I can't decide if it would have seemed life-threatening. If not, I might not have drawn my gun. I think you came out pretty well and I'm glad nobody was seriously hurt.
 

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Why do you ask? 2 Dogs!
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First off......you survived the situation, you did the right thing this time!

Being better prepared is always the goal and no 2 situations will ever be the same.

Now you have experience, how do you improve upon that?

All else aside, that's why you carry car insurance.

Sorry for your bruised ego but it could have been worse. You were able to walk away, that makes you a winner
 

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Knowledge is Power
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I'm sorry for you.
I know what I would have done in that situation but I'm not going to give that advice over the internet.

A couple of take-away points.
1. You and your G/F survived and she did not get hurt. Kudo's
2. They got in your personal space. You should have stopped them and had the means to stop them before they were able to physically strike you.
3. Work on your situational awareness.
4. Don't go looking for revenge.
5. count this as a learning experience.
6. Just a couple hood rats trying to prove how tough they are and at the same time hoping to get you to do something rash so they can get some money YO!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the responses guys, I've only read a few, and now I have to go to works, so I will be finishing my reading when I get home. But just to clarify one thing:

I have had a pistol before, and have open carried before. I didn't like the attention it drew, so I sold it (waiting until I'm 21 so I can conceal).

I "ran" from the fight because I didn't feel SERIOUS danger, because the punk hit me once and pretty much stopped. So I wasn't necessarily saying I would have used a ccw in this situation, I meant for future altercations.

Also, I know firearms are not toys or negotiating tools, and that they are only drawn when you intend on firing it. But my logic is, if I were shot (even with a .22) I would not want to continue what I was doing. So it seems a .32acp or maybe something alittle larger, would be plenty to stop someone. Fmj's would be a courtisey on my end. I'm not afraid to take a life if mine or my loved ones are in danger, but it seems if two on the chest will stop him and there's a chance he will still serve time, that this would be the proper coarse of action.
 

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Thanks for the responses guys, I've only read a few, and now I have to go to works, so I will be finishing my reading when I get home. But just to clarify one thing:

I have had a pistol before, and have open carried before. I didn't like the attention it drew, so I sold it (waiting until I'm 21 so I can conceal).

I "ran" from the fight because I didn't feel SERIOUS danger, because the punk hit me once and pretty much stopped. So I wasn't necessarily saying I would have used a ccw in this situation, I meant for future altercations.

Also, I know firearms are not toys or negotiating tools, and that they are only drawn when you intend on firing it. But my logic is, if I were shot (even with a .22) I would not want to continue what I was doing. So it seems a .32acp or maybe something alittle larger, would be plenty to stop someone. Fmj's would be a courtisey on my end. I'm not afraid to take a life if mine or my loved ones are in danger, but it seems if two on the chest will stop him and there's a chance he will still serve time, that this would be the proper coarse of action.
Willing to bet those thugs would have left you alone if you were open carrying.
 

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But my logic is, if I were shot (even with a .22) I would not want to continue what I was doing. So it seems a .32acp or maybe something alittle larger, would be plenty to stop someone.
What you would do is irrelevant. All that matters is what they would do. And a lot of times, fear or pain does not stop an attack. You need a weapon that is more than capable of putting them down. A mouse gun might get the job done, but a larger caliber is more likely to do the job better.
 

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Capability, not scenarios
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You walked away with a bruised lip, and nothing more than hurt pride. That's really a win.

Presumably these two thugs were strangers, thus it's not personal--and if you can avoid making it that, it's easier to accept the conclusion that A) your girlfriend wasn't hurt, B) you weren't hurt much either, and C) nobody died.

One important lesson from my CC class was that using my weapon is the last thing I want to do if I can avoid it. Discharging that weapon can result in all sorts of bad things happening unless I do everything right, thus the preferred action is to not have to use it. Stand-your-ground laws aside, at the very least you'll spend a lot of time talking to the authorities, you might possibly lose your weapon for an extended period of time, and if the encounter is sketchy at all, you might be George Zimmerman. Not saying don't carry, and I do, just that your resolution wasn't all that bad.

I do have to ask--this is very weird that they would confront you and then throw concrete at your car, in broad daylight, for a crowd. What did you say to them? Did you provoke them? Why would a guy approach you and head-butt you? Did you have an exchange with them earlier?

I sense there is more here. I'd like to know it.
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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Thanks for the responses guys, I've only read a few, and now I have to go to works, so I will be finishing my reading when I get home. But just to clarify one thing:

I have had a pistol before, and have open carried before. I didn't like the attention it drew, so I sold it (waiting until I'm 21 so I can conceal).

I "ran" from the fight because I didn't feel SERIOUS danger, because the punk hit me once and pretty much stopped. So I wasn't necessarily saying I would have used a ccw in this situation, I meant for future altercations.

Also, I know firearms are not toys or negotiating tools, and that they are only drawn when you intend on firing it. But my logic is, if I were shot (even with a .22) I would not want to continue what I was doing. So it seems a .32acp or maybe something alittle larger, would be plenty to stop someone. Fmj's would be a courtisey on my end. I'm not afraid to take a life if mine or my loved ones are in danger, but it seems if two on the chest will stop him and there's a chance he will still serve time, that this would be the proper coarse of action.
With great respect, I believe you're drawing some potentially dangerous conclusions.

You basically were assaulted by an unarmed moron. Moreover, a moron who was NOT trying to kill you (being on camera).

Using deadly force against some person who is not trying to kill you is unwise, not to mention illegal. The lawyer you'll need to hire is going to tell you to cut him a check for, oh, say $7000.00, and he'll let you know when he needs another check, and thats IF the case does not go to trial. If it goes to trial, it's going to start getting really expensive. Oh, and you do time and then get out? Good luck finding a job after that.

The best lessons in life are either painful, humiliating, or expensive.

So you just learned a lesson incorporating all three.

The takeaway is:


Never plan to use a gun when a left uppercut and a nice right cross will do the trick.
 

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First off......you survived the situation, you did the right thing this time!

Being better prepared is always the goal and no 2 situations will ever be the same.

Now you have experience, how do you improve upon that?

All else aside, that's why you carry car insurance.

Sorry for your bruised ego but it could have been worse. You were able to walk away, that makes you a winner
I guess but I prefer the word "lucky". If someone attacks you they could kill you. Better to STOP them cold. Just because you have to pull the gun does not necessarily mean you will shoot them to stop them. Most morons will turn and run away like the cowards they are. But you must not threaten them. If you are in danger, pull the gun and be prepared to shoot if they don't immediately turn and run. You are again NOT trying to kill them. You are trying to STOP them. Big difference. If the dirtbag dies that was HIS choice, created by HIS actions. Not yours. That does not make you a killer. It makes you a protector of life.

Also, depending on your location, some states you clearly would not be arrested for shooting that dirtbag. Some states you will automatically be arrested and charged. Better to pay for an attorney than a funeral.
 

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Thanks for the responses guys, I've only read a few, and now I have to go to works, so I will be finishing my reading when I get home. But just to clarify one thing:

I have had a pistol before, and have open carried before. I didn't like the attention it drew, so I sold it (waiting until I'm 21 so I can conceal).

I "ran" from the fight because I didn't feel SERIOUS danger, because the punk hit me once and pretty much stopped. So I wasn't necessarily saying I would have used a ccw in this situation, I meant for future altercations.

Also, I know firearms are not toys or negotiating tools, and that they are only drawn when you intend on firing it. But my logic is, if I were shot (even with a .22) I would not want to continue what I was doing. So it seems a .32acp or maybe something alittle larger, would be plenty to stop someone. Fmj's would be a courtisey on my end. I'm not afraid to take a life if mine or my loved ones are in danger, but it seems if two on the chest will stop him and there's a chance he will still serve time, that this would be the proper coarse of action.
What logic did they use? You don't have the training to decide a "32 or something a little larger" is a good choice. Get training. Make the decision based on knowledge, not what you think or feel. My partner (I was not working that day) had to shoot a guy. One hit with a 357 mag in the chest. 158gr HP entered beside the heart and shattered a rib, went down and out through his right butt cheek. The guy continues shooting at him four or five times before he died. That guy was not using "logic" either. A 22 or a 32 "might" do the job, but do you really want to bet your life on it?
 

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Bad Moon Rising
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"...One important lesson from my CC class was that using my weapon is the last thing I want to do if I can avoid it. Discharging that weapon can result in all sorts of bad things happening unless I do everything right, thus the preferred action is to not have to use it. Stand-your-ground laws aside, at the very least you'll spend a lot of time talking to the authorities, you might possibly lose your weapon for an extended period of time, and if the encounter is sketchy at all, you might be George Zimmerman. Not saying don't carry, and I do, just that your resolution wasn't all that bad."
Must agree with goose3.

Even if you'd had a CCW firearm with you, given a situation when some wanna-be YouTube star is filming some other person who gets in your face, you still would have made the right decision to avoid the confrontation.

You don't ever want to pull a gun unless you are absolutely convinced that either your life or someone else's is in immediate imminent jeopardy.

That's why intermediate force items exist - such as pepper sprays, boxing skills, etc.

I also have to agree with Nutty Old Geezer that what you need more than anything else right now is Training. There are some excellent courses out there that could answer the questions you're wrestling with, as well as many of the legal ramifications as well. If you don't know where to go to find the training, look at these websites:

http://training.nra.org/

http://www.nratraining.net/

http://nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx
 
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