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9mm V.S. .40S&W Which is Ballistically better?

21K views 196 replies 43 participants last post by  HappyinID 
#1 ·
I'm thinking of picking up a police trade-in that are popping up at gunshops locally. With all the rage these days of everyone switching to 9mm because the FBI is, do you buy into this or are you happy with .40(Or whatever you use.)?


 
#7 ·
For me, I pick both the .40 and 9x19 for SD roles. It depends on the platform and where I'm going and how I can carry.

The top consideration in any standard self defense caliber (from .380 to .45acp) is whether you can shoot it well.

The second consideration IMO is the tradeoff in damage versus capacity. The bullets damage different - some rely more on speed (9x19) while others rely on weight (.45acp)

I've watched dozens and dozens of real-world shootouts. Police tend to fire a lot more rounds, often 20+ and reloads. Civilians tend to almost never fire more than 10 and rarely more than 15.

So for me as a civilian, I want capacity of at least 8, probably 10, and ideally 12-15 in a carry gun.

So for a .45, while it delivers an impressive damage level, the capacity isn't usually enough and I only use the .45 in states where I'm limited to 10 round mags.

The .380 is just too small for my tastes and any gun that can chamber the .380 can chamber as many 9x19 and there's more offerings in guns and ammo.

So that leaves .40 and 9x19. I choose both. I can shoot both accurately. The .40 for me offers the best combination of performance and capacity in carry and home defense, but I do keep the 9 for various roles as well.

Of course be sure to use premium SD ammo.

Here's some examples in similar sized guns.
Glock 23 is .40 in 13+1
Glock 19 is 9x19 in 15+1

Sig P229 in .40 is 12+1 (there might be some 13rd mags out there but I don't have them)
Sig P229 in 9x19 is 15+1

Full sized combat handguns in these calibers are going to be in the 15-20 round capacity, which is sufficient particularly with reloads available.

For me, I think it's pretty unlikely that in the unlikely event of a SD attack and shooting that I'll get into the 10 or greater range of firing. It's certainly possible. But what is more likely is that the few hits will need to do max damage.

I've seen a lot of ballistics gel tests and both the .40 and 9 deliver incredible wounds but I've always been a bit more impressed with the .40. All things considered, any hit with a .40 is going to be better than a 9, even if marginally so.
 
#9 ·
Great post, thanks! I shoot both 9mm & .40 equally well, so after reading your post .40 it is lol. I've only shot .40 in Glocks, I hear shooting .40s&w out of an M&P has less felt recoil? I'm not recoil sensitive at all, but I'm told the M&P was built around the .40 not sure how true this is? I have the M&P 2.0 in 9mm, so I'll just keep it & add either a Glock 22 Gen4 or the M&P 2.0 in .40. Again great post, much appreciated. :thumb:
 
#8 ·
How much training are you going to be doing? The .40 does slightly more damage but it's negligible if you're an accurate shooter. It has noticeably more recoil, often more weight, and most importantly - holds fewer rounds. 9mm ammo is cheaper and more abundant.

If you can't afford much training (either due to time or funds) - choose the 9. If you aren't able to train regularly, the extra rounds in the 9 are more valuable than the damage because a miss does no damage and you'll want to maximize your chances for a hit before having to reload (as most firefights don't get past one mag).

That said, I love my .40 (carry a M&P and a Shield) and just use a 9 for my backup.
 
#14 ·
The 40 cal has a larger case = more powder equal more bullet energy = more recoil.
It also lets you load a much heavier hard cast bullet, suited for deep penetration, and breaking big bones.

Defense against humans; Both work well.
Defense against hogs and black bears; 40 cal preferred with 180-200g loads.
Defense against large brown bears; Don't be stupid, you need a 44 magnum.
 
#18 ·
Btw, these police trade in guns have been widely available from gun stores and at gun shows for over a year.
Most are Sig or Glock models in 9mm or 40 cal.

I bought a Sig 229 in 40 cal last spring at a good price. Sig had recoated the frame and slide, replaced the springs and magazines, and mine has a new barrel.

New gun, factory warranty, half price, what's not to like?
 
#21 ·
I chose .40 because I personally know of an altercation involving a 9 with EXCELLENT shot placement and the person drove off. This was over 20 years ago and a lot has changed bullet wise since then and the bad guy had to be just stupid lucky to survive. (did not even need surgery)

That being said I have always liked the full size capacity so carried a Glock 22 for a long time. Traded for a 27 and played with it until one day I found X grip adaptors for a 22 magazine in a 27!

ABSOLUTELY LOVED THAT!!!

THEN, one day a friend of mine came over and we were shooting and he had a shield .45. Fell in love with the extreme small size, really manageable recoil and 8 rounds. The 27 had become heavy over the years.
 
#28 ·
I chose .40 because I personally know of an altercation involving a 9 with EXCELLENT shot placement and the person drove off. This was over 20 years ago and a lot has changed bullet wise since then and the bad guy had to be just stupid lucky to survive. (did not even need surgery).
Yes, I often have mice I shoot with 9mm, simply walk away like nothing happened.
 
#26 ·
I'm thinking of picking up a police trade-in that are popping up at gunshops locally. With all the rage these days of everyone switching to 9mm because the FBI is,
There have been plenty of agencies switching to 9mm before the FBI announced they were, and an even greater number that never went to .40 in the first place.

Like .40, 9mm with good ammo has been working just fine for many years.



.
 
#31 ·
My standard line to the "shot placement is all that matters guys":

Let me attach a 3x5 index card (that's the size of the spot either over the heart, or nasal cavity that will give you a "shut down kill")
To a tire, and roll it down the hill.

Then have you shoot at it with WHATEVER your prefered "shot placement" gun is.

WHILE I shoot at YOU with frozen pain balls and your moving to avoid me hitting you.

If you can hit that 3x5 on the rolling tire 100x/100x while avoiding being shot by ME....


I will agree with your prefis that that's all that matters.

Otherwise: let's plan for some suboptimal situations.
 
#35 ·
Barring a psychological stop, there are two ways to stop a human being- destroying the cns, or blood loss. Muzzle energy is a factor in neither of those. The expanded size difference between 9mm and .40 cal is so small as to be negligible. Providing the round you choose has adequate penetration (is able to reach important stuff), you are good to go. Seriously. More penetration is not necessarily "better," and in some cases can be detrimental. In handgun rounds, there is no such thing as any of the cool catch phrases like "hydrostatic shock," or "knockdown power." What the permanent cavity does is what you get.
 
#36 ·
Barring a psychological stop, there are two ways to stop a human being- destroying the cns, or blood loss. Muzzle energy is a factor in neither of those. The expanded size difference between 9mm and .40 cal is so small as to be negligible.

get.
I'm always amused by this, when microscopic fractions can make the difference.... people dismiss a 12% difference.

So you wouldn't mind if you got 88% of your paycheck?
That's the same as 100%?
 
#39 ·
You'd think a question like... which caliber is better ballistically would be easy to answer...& perhaps it is...but said answer always seems to get buried among sooo many variables......

So, in the end... sounds like the choice boils down to which one serves YOUR particular needs...
 
#43 ·
So, in the end... sounds like the choice boils down to which one serves YOUR particular needs...

:juggle::D:



Physics would seem to be the answer, faster/slightly larger would seem to be better then slower/slightly smaller? Maybe I'm wrong?At the very worst .40s&w is as good as 9mm, no?:confused: Besides with either Glock or the M&P all that is needed is a barrel swap/mag swap to shoot 9mm anyways. :thumb:
 
#40 ·
The cardinal rule is to carry the most powerful round you can shoot effectively. I hit as well with the 40 as i do with the 9 so I carry a 40. I have an identical 9 (Glock subcompacts) that I practice with because the ammo is cheaper and when I shoot the 40 there is no difference in shot placement. If I could hit better with the 9 I'd carry a 9, because shot placement is way more important than any difference in power between the two.

I've seen some people argue that with improved ammo the 9 is the equal of the 40. But that argument ignores the fact that if the 9 can be improved the 40 can too. Better to compare the top loads of one to the other, instead of top 9 loads to average 40 loads.

I would say that it's unlikely that when a 40 would stop a bad guy a 9 would not, all other factors being equal. But it stands to reason that such a situation could occur. And that's why I carry a 40.

But it can also be argued that the extra capacity could be a factor in favor of the 9. So there really is not a right and wrong answer about which one is better.
 
#44 ·
The cardinal rule is to carry the most powerful round you can shoot effectively. I hit as well with the 40 as i do with the 9 so I carry a 40. I have an identical 9 (Glock subcompacts) that I practice with because the ammo is cheaper and when I shoot the 40 there is no difference in shot placement. If I could hit better with the 9 I'd carry a 9, because shot placement is way more important than any difference in power between the two.

I shoot both equally the same as well, but what the 9mm people say is i can carry more ammo(2 rounds in most cases) & faster follow up shots lol. Those are the 2 most things repeated.
 
#41 ·
I started with the Glock 23 and shot it very accurately. Have taken three 8 hr handgun classes with the guns hitting 300-500 rounds in one day. I added a Glock 19 as an option just because both guns use the same holsters and some “parts” are interchangeable. For example I have one spare firing pin that fits both, one trigger connector that fits both etc.

I carry the G19 no reason other than it has more capacity and it is a gen 4 and the 23 is a gen 3.
 
#48 ·
Silly question to be sure,
I know you guys who have 9mm somehow want to convince yourselves its better or just as good, but your lying to yourselves.
9mm is a descent round. I used it for yours in LE and early on switched to .40 which I live by.
If your being honest with yourself, and you were about to be shot center mass and had to decide which round, your choice, .40 or 9mm, you would really pick the .40 thinking your going to have a better chance at survivng? lol
Come on guys, this is a non argument, jeez.
 
#50 ·
I don't know where to begin. This post is incredibly full of fail. Basing your current decision on what to carry, based on what "used to be," is akin to saying that a lead ball out of an unrifled barrel is a good decision for self defense. As far as what to choose to get shot with, my honest answer is, "I don't care." Either one of them is going to suck, and is just as likely to kill me.

As far as being a non-argument, you are correct. Carry whichever one you shoot better. Doesn't matter which of the common service calibers we're talking about.
 
#51 ·
No.

1. There is no such thing as "stopping power."
2. I know several of the guys involved in testing at the FBI. That was never even a blip on their radar.
3. I have sat through multiple full FBI protocol ballistics tests. There is no clear winner in terms of effectiveness.

They went with the caliber that most people shoot better (I would challenge anyone to shoot two identical guns, other than caliber, under time, and testing for accuracy under time/time of accurate follow-up shots - I can pretty much guarantee you there is nobody out there that shoots 40 more accurately and faster than 9mm. I can also pretty much guarantee the numbers don't lie, and just about everyone will have better numbers with 9mm). In addition, they went with the caliber that was cheaper to buy, and caused less wear to the guns, as well as offering more capacity.

Might there be technology that comes out and sends .40 rocketing past 9mm, in the future? Sure. Just like around 2005ish time-frame, technology came out that put 9mm on-par with all the others. Stuff changes. Try to keep up.
 
#52 ·
I prefer the 9mm due mag capacity. 40 is supposed to be a compromise between 9mm and 45 acp, but in smaller frame ccw options which are more comfortable to carry the snappiness of the 40 impacts my shot groups. Call it recoil sensitivity or what have you but it’s important to ensure all conditions you can control are checked for proper shot placement. Then there is the argument, which I am not sure I subscribe too, that the high pressure of the 40 can cause premature wear on the frame. All in all I prefer the 9mm hands down. I shoot better with it.
 
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