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Front Towards Enemy
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So there I was, two days after Christmas, a new SKS before me. A couple of our Simonovs are already modernized with synthetic stocks, detachable mags, etc. I know there are many of you out there who would give me a lecture about keeping the sks platform stock because it's "good as it is". I set up my weapons in a manner in which I feel comfortable, but I digress...

So, there I am, voiding the nonexistent warranty by dropping the internal box mag and putting in a 30 round detachable magazine...then comes the fun part...digging through the tupperwares of sks parts for US made components to make it all "Legal-Eagle". Because if you didn't know, simply changing the stock on an sks, or putting in a detachable mag makes your sks illegal!

On top of your new T-6 stock, you have to change enough parts of the rifle to make the weapon compliant with a little law called 922r. So out comes the piston and op rod...there goes the OM stock, and various and sundry little parts and mods that I don't have time to go into, just so that the BATFE doesn't kick in my door. In goes the "compliant parts, which look and feel just like the original parts, function just as well but...they're US made and more expensive, so oh well...

So as I'm working on the rifle, I'm thinking to myself: How many SKS rifles have I seen in gun stores and pawn shops, not to mention the internet sporting aftermarket magazines, or "tactical" stocks? Dozens? Hundreds? And did the owners of the the shop owners replace all the parts necessary to bring the weapons up to Federal regulations? Probably not.

So how many "illegal" SKS's are floating around the country, insolently thumbing their noses...or bayonet lugs(?)...at the ATF? How many owners are aware that they are in violation of a Federal law that could get them into major hot water should the drink-smoke-and gun agents decide to actually enforce the stupid law in the first place? And does it really matter? What difference is there in a US made operating rod and a Chinese or Russian-made one? It doesn't change the weapon one bit.

922r isn't exactly a draconian gun-grabbing lib-law, it's more of one of those irritating, pointless rules that has no logical reason to exist outside of comforting anti-gunners and making Tapco more money. I say if Trump wants to do something constructive, repeal most of the firearms laws, and when he does, he should make 922r one of the first to go!
 

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Front Towards Enemy
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I bet if they did get fid of 922r, a lot of little shops would go out of business.
I wouldn't go that far. Most people modify their weapons at home, not even knowing that the law exists, while a good number of others in the know replace the parts themselves. I'm sure there's a small percentage of newbies and augerheads out there who take their SKS to a shop because they can't figure out the complicated "drop in" kits. Those customers wouldn't be lost with the death of 922r, and keep the industry going strong. :)
 

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So what's illegal? Changing the stock on your own rifle, or the law that said it was? FFS "shall not be infringed"...not even a little bit.
 

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Front Towards Enemy
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So what's illegal? Changing the stock on your own rifle, or the law that said it was? FFS "shall not be infringed"...not even a little bit.
I know...it's the lawful vs. legal thing. It's my rifle, and I should be able to put a new stock on it if I want. It harms noone, and in no way changes the function or purpose of the weapon. That's why I consider 922r a ridiculous and unnecessary law.

BUT...render unto Caesar, right? I don't wanna incur the wrath of the illegitimate-law brigade, so I'm gonna keep in compliance with the letter if not spirit of the law until the mean laws and bad men go away. :rolleyes:
 

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An imported Saiga being modified makes it even more fun!
Yeah. But until they lift the import ban. You wont see any new one or even find one for a good price. That fury crap isn't a Saiga. If it doesn't Izhevsk on it. It ain't a Saiga.

Regardless. 922r is just a way to get you to spend more money on parts that are exactly the same as the ones you remove. Because meruka gun laws.

I could go on for days about stupid laws such as 922r, ITAR, Tax stamps and the lot. Laws that really don't do much except tax and cost responsible gun owners. I mean do you really think some thug a$$ wanna be gangsta is going to give 2 @#$%s about 922r or a tax stamp?
 

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Front Towards Enemy
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The law in part actually states:

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

So it is relevant to manufacturers as well as private owners. The reason the ATF don't go after most people is that

A) there's no way to prove in most cases exactly WHO manufactured some of the parts like the gas piston or trigger group

B) they know that like I stated, there's probably several MILLION SKS's alone with "illegal" mods, and it would be a logistical nightmare tracking them down. They usually tack the noncompliance issue onto other charges when some Bozo is already facing criminal charges. That's why you often hear of bank robbers, murderers and other felons also being charged with having "illegally modified weapons". It's usually a 922r compliance issue...or so I'm told.
 

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Plays best, alone
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Wasn't the SKS banned for political reasons bad,bad Ruskies, and bad, bad Chinese Red Army? Not because the SKS was deemed unsuitable or unable to be used for sporting purpose. So wouldn't 925 (d) (3) not apply?
 

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Front Towards Enemy
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's not technically a "banned" rifle...more like banned from importation via an illegal arms embargo which (for political reasons) has to do more with restricting fair private international commerce than it does dealing with weapons problems. But that aside...

The truth about the Siminov Carbine is it's technically a C&R rifle (curio and relic), and is outside the pesky rules of 922r and others when it its original imported configuration. Only when you change something on it out with a domestically produced part does the law come into effect. At that point, you have to change enough other parts to make it compliant.

woodyp mentioned Saigas. It's true with those too. Because they are made in another country, you legally aren't allowed to change anything on them unless you put enough other parts on it to make it...well technically a U.S. made gun by law. Saigas are imported as "sporting guns", meaning they must meet certain criteria to be imported as such. Notice the monte carlo stocks on most of them? That's because pistol grips are mentioned by name as making a firearm an "assault weapon". Adding one to a Saiga has officially turned a "sporting rifle" into an "assault rifle", putting it in a completely different tax bracket, so to speak. Not to say you can't have a mag-fed, pistol-gripped black gun with a muzzle break and bayonet...you just have to install a certain amount of US made parts on it to comply with the law.

This is why I hate the law, along with all of the other useless, asinine gun laws on the books. I am seriously hoping that Trump does what everyone SAYS he'll do, and start shredding the suppressor laws and regulations pertaining to SBRs and AOW's, and ditch the 922r Clinton Cluster****. I doubt this will happen, but one can dream, right?

Because Dear Mr. Donald: I really want an M203 underslung on a custom 14" AK with a folding stock. If you could let me have one...that would be great. :D:
 

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that's like, your opinion
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i was under the impression that they had to be 922(r) compliant in order to sell in the US after import... also thought that any parts you switch out with US made parts (i.e. tapco sks mags counting as 3 compliant parts) would only make it "more" legal.

do i have something backwards here?
 

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I thought 922r was at least 9 US made parts.
no. it is not more than 10 imported parts on an assembled non-importable rifle.

there are 20 items on the list (nuts/screws/springs, etc. don't count), but not all non-importable rifles have all 20 items.

SKS only has 14, so you just need to change 4 to usa made and you have now assembled a non-importable rifle from US made parts!

the law is ridiculous, and there is no way to even prove where a lot of stuff was even manufactured, and a bill of sale from a buddy-machinist is good enough proof anyhow...
 

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i was under the impression that they had to be 922(r) compliant in order to sell in the US after import... also thought that any parts you switch out with US made parts (i.e. tapco sks mags counting as 3 compliant parts) would only make it "more" legal.

do i have something backwards here?
they are compliant because they are C&R status when in original configuration. it is when you change one thing it is no longer in that protected group and you have to follow 922R guidelines...
 

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So there I was, two days after Christmas, a new SKS before me. A couple of our Simonovs are already modernized with synthetic stocks, detachable mags, etc. I know there are many of you out there who would give me a lecture about keeping the sks platform stock because it's "good as it is". I set up my weapons in a manner in which I feel comfortable, but I digress...

So, there I am, voiding the nonexistent warranty by dropping the internal box mag and putting in a 30 round detachable magazine...then comes the fun part...digging through the tupperwares of sks parts for US made components to make it all "Legal-Eagle". Because if you didn't know, simply changing the stock on an sks, or putting in a detachable mag makes your sks illegal!

On top of your new T-6 stock, you have to change enough parts of the rifle to make the weapon compliant with a little law called 922r. So out comes the piston and op rod...there goes the OM stock, and various and sundry little parts and mods that I don't have time to go into, just so that the BATFE doesn't kick in my door. In goes the "compliant parts, which look and feel just like the original parts, function just as well but...they're US made and more expensive, so oh well...

So as I'm working on the rifle, I'm thinking to myself: How many SKS rifles have I seen in gun stores and pawn shops, not to mention the internet sporting aftermarket magazines, or "tactical" stocks? Dozens? Hundreds? And did the owners of the the shop owners replace all the parts necessary to bring the weapons up to Federal regulations? Probably not.

So how many "illegal" SKS's are floating around the country, insolently thumbing their noses...or bayonet lugs(?)...at the ATF? How many owners are aware that they are in violation of a Federal law that could get them into major hot water should the drink-smoke-and gun agents decide to actually enforce the stupid law in the first place? And does it really matter? What difference is there in a US made operating rod and a Chinese or Russian-made one? It doesn't change the weapon one bit.

922r isn't exactly a draconian gun-grabbing lib-law, it's more of one of those irritating, pointless rules that has no logical reason to exist outside of comforting anti-gunners and making Tapco more money. I say if Trump wants to do something constructive, repeal most of the firearms laws, and when he does, he should make 922r one of the first to go!
You don't fully understand 922r.

All those "illegal" configuration SKS that are in pawnshops etc. would not be illegal to buy or own in that "illegal" configuration because 922r has to do with "assembly", and since "you" as the buyer were not the one to assemble those "illegal" SKS into that "illegal" configuration, you would not be in violation of 922r. Now proving that is another matter, maybe a bill of sale would be enough, maybe not, maybe a photo at the time of purchase would suffice, maybe not. We all agree 922r is a stupid and mostly non-enforceable law but most gun laws are stupid. Look at NFA, again stupid laws that protect no one.

Lots of info regarding "922r" and "assembly" at these links
http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=129021.msg1561215#msg1561215
 

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Panoz77, Thanks for the great links, very informative. I own two SKSs, a 1990s vintage Norinco and a 1970 Yugo. While I have not modified either rifle and do not intend to do so, it is interesting to go down the rabbit hole of federal restrictions on firearms ownership.
 
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