Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
STALKER Unit Mobile
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright Im looking to buy a new handgun before the elections but Im kind of stuck deciding between two rounds the 7.62x25 and the S&W 40. I have shot both of the rounds and they both feel great and they both have their ups and downs.

The 40 cal has good piercing power and a nice knockdown kick to it

The 7.62x25 has a great amount of piercing capabilities and the ammo prices are about half of the 40

between the two prices are about 185 for a HI-point 40 cal
and the 7.62x25 Tokarev is 230 comes with leather holster 2 mags and cleaning set

anyone have a good suggestions?
 

·
Ding... Thanks for playin
Joined
·
4,922 Posts
.40s&w
You want to STOP them not tease them...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dwind

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,376 Posts
.40 S&W because it will still be made in US after Obama takes over. 7.26 x25 is great round but imports will be greatly curtailed in next few months. Get the 40.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,224 Posts
.40s&w
You want to STOP them not tease them...
You know what they say, don't take anything to a gun fight that does not begin with .4.
That said the commercial hollo points for the x25 would make a real mess.
Plenty of velocity to open them up.
I like the CZ 52 and the x25 round which is cheap as you can get surplus ammo cheap ..... for now. Won't last though.
The magazines are terribly expensive and hard to find.
They are bomb proof though and cheap as well as easy to work on if something does wear out.
Of the two I'd rather have the CZ.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,362 Posts
.40s&w
You want to STOP them not tease them...
For as little as a 7.62x25 is, don't snub it.It will kill you as fast as a .40 will.I for one wouldn't want to get hit with it.with muzzle volocity between 1300-1500 fps it no joke.
 

·
Information is Ammunition
Joined
·
22,122 Posts
depends on your needs. though the lighter round historically has been used in backup weapons, the 40 now has a nice list of backup class weapons. Im even considering the the taurus millennium pro compact in 40S&W.

no matter what you get- for crying out loud- GET IT. theres almost no time left for pleasant conversations like this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SanzaRoux

·
STALKER Unit Mobile
Joined
·
183 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I already have a couple other back home but wanted to pick up as much as possible before all of this hits.

The uses Im thinking mostly of will most likely be for defense just in case of WCS I was considering the 7.62x25 because of the piercing abilities against bullet proof vests. but at the same time Im looking at a the 40 because it matches almost that ability and sure as hell if it does not go through it will be breaking some bones andgoing to make them question the idea of should I get back up?

I think Ill most likely go with the 40 S&W because of the availability of the rounds latley a lot of police departments are starting to issue them along with a lot of our bases (USCG) we are converting over to the Sig Saur 40 as well.

Thank you all for your comments
 

·
Ding... Thanks for playin
Joined
·
4,922 Posts
i got a 7.62 X 25, had it now for years. But there is just something about the "4"'s... and they are right, .40 WILL be easier to get after Jan 09
 

·
Sugar-free
Joined
·
4,184 Posts
Personally, I'd go with the Tokarev. Get some cheap ammo too. Have you ever shot one? They bark LOUD and belch fire. You can tell you are launching that little pill fast. I call my CZ-52 my "handrifle" because it shoots so flat. It hits near point of aim at 100 yards. It's nice to have a pistol that you trust out to 100 yards. The .40 is slow. It wont punch steel armor or glass like the 7.62X25. But ammo may be easier to come by. And ammo selection is much better, along with the firearm being more modern. It's your choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
CZ52 is like a carbine shrunken down to a handgun.
Some of the Tokarev hornady JHP loads and SP loads from Reeds Ammo and Research give it a good amount of self defense capability.
Despite all the arguments about caliber size and power,its still all about 2 things-placement and penetration.You have to be able to go deep enough to hit what your aiming at.I dont see the tokarev having any problems with that,from 85gr military JHP steel core or commercial production lead core FMJ 85 grain,to 95 or 100 grain JHPs or even 100-110 grain SP loads.
You wont have the same problems with penetration that ALOT of the JHPs in 9x19 and .40 have.

You also have some soft body armor penetration with the Tokarev that the .40 doesn't have,along with barrier penetration.

That being said both the CZ52 and the TT33 are somewhat 'Soviet era clunky' as in ergonomics and controls.

With the CZ52 you will want to do some shopping around to find an all matching numbers non-rearsenaled piece,they are the best.Be sure to check the bore and make all other observations that you would any surplus weapon before purchase.

They do take some work before being 'ready' in my humble opinion.
Replacing the firing pin is a must.
New springs from Wolff is a good idea,and then there are other little bits of customization you can do-using a round file to open the rear sights up a bit for faster sight picture or having the sights replaced with a newer style is a good idea.

If you want a more modern pistol with a more modern caliber-go with the .40

But if you want a more 'retro' gun go CZ52.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,116 Posts
I love reading these.

OH MAN .40 S&W WILL BE EASIER TO COME BUY!

Not really the way it played out. At least for now.

Not that I blame anyone, who knew Obama would galvanize people so much on guns that, so far, he doesn't want to touch the subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,244 Posts
One of each.

The little 7.62 will make a great backup.

I use my .40 as my backup for my .45. Then I can just drop my Tokarov in my pocket.

I think that price is a bit high. Check out; www.jgsales.com www.centuryarms.com or www.cdnnsports.com and buy it wholesale and have it shipped to your local dealer. I paid $120 for mine delivered.

There are also some chinese versions out right now too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,959 Posts
If the .4 crowd had koolaide most of you would be dead.... as well as ignorent.

Anyways lets discuss the ballistic differences, here so you can make your own informed choice about capability.

Now please not this is incomplete because I can't find the reliable 7.62x25 gel tests. Frankly they aren't tested often. Brassfetcher.com did a test with some rounds and I believe the outlined one is what you are looking at. The image states 90 gr XTP which might be the hornady round I assume. Regardless the data for the 7.62x25 is incomplete in my opinion.

Now lets do a comparison.





I am seeing a 12-13 inch penetration. I will assume this is from a pistol which gives us about a 1300 fps range of speed.

Now if anyone knows anything we are looking for at least a 10-13 penetration for reliable interaction with vital organs. That means all the rounds we look at will do the job.

As such I can't percieve the dimensional differnce of the wound cavity in comparison photos.

Needless to sayif you read wound ballistics information instead of guestimating the 9mm 40 and 45 have interchangable wound cavity damage in hollow points. This depends on the company and bullet performance. For instance Hornady may make its 40 a bit better then the 9mm or 45 (which they have stated better performance) however the differnces tend to be in the half millimeter range. In a human body with the size we are talking about it doesn't matter.

Now to the reason I bring all this up. The 9mm in general will penetrate a bit better then your 45, but the weight of the 45 means it deflect less (yet again marginal but something to consider in this argument). If you are shooting through body armor etc a 9mm will have a better chance then a 45, but a 45 in general will keep a straighter trajectory if hitting the corner of a building.

Now I can go into hours of round comparsion etc, but lets give some round numbers here. Considering hollowpoints as our base.

a 7.62x25 averages about 1300 fps
a 9mm +P ranges all over but you get about 1200
40 S&W is about 1100
45 +p and a generous 1000

With weigh factored in 90 gr 7.62x25 may only marginally lead a 9mm in penetration because of its smaller diameter. It obviously isn't outperforming depth on any of the standard calibers.

If this is the case then I would think the 40 would be a better choice for me between the two calibers.

Now we have other issues like 40's generally end up abusing there weapon more then say a 9mm or 45 bla bla.

Platforms availability... etc

However taking that good round and making it short with a short barrel seems to mitigate any true out performing attributes you couldn't get any other handgun caliber.

Like others have posted there is more to consider but from a damage in tissue race I don't think its winning, and if it is not by much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
I once read that doctors performing autopsies couldn't really distinguish between calibers or even bullet construction when it came to handgun wounds.
As most handgun bullets are bigger or smaller than each other by a mere fraction of an inch in size,with the differences in weight being measured not in the hundreds of pounds of the person they are expected to make an impact on,nor even ounces-but grains,I find the whole 'bigger is better' thing to be simply a matter of preference-not fact.
Having .15 hundreds of an inch isnt going to make a difference between a poorly placed shot and a good one.MAYBE it might make a difference between nicking a vital organ like the descending aorta,but c'mon-were talking about hitting something an inch or so across with something that doesn't even measure half an inch!either you hit it or you dont,if you base your caliber decisions on hundreds of an inch or a few more grains vs. the hundreds of pounds of the target your going after,thats your personal right to do so,but its not 'the ultimate holy grail' of handgun 'stopping power'.

I also question the whole JHP 'craze'.There has been absolutely no conclusive evidence that they work as well as shown in gelatin,or that they increase 'stopping power'.They look mean and if and when they perform the way they are designed I'm sure the ragged edges and flatter front make a nastier wound.
But like bullet size and weight,there is still no excuse for poor placement and some JHPs will give such a horrendous lack of penetration its criminal.Even in 9 para and .40.
As far as I'm concerned,the only true advantage to JHPs is that they reduce the chances of over-penetration in a scenario where over-penetration is an issue.

The only way to guarantee that what you hit goes down is to hit it where it counts with what you have.

Placement and penetration are the key.Velocity that develops energy to do the penetration and do the actual damage is more important than size.Just about every major handgun caliber from 9x19 on up has that with the right ammo.

If you have enough velocity,you can make a 35 grain .25 acp projectile go thru solid steel and shatter a cinder block on the other side.

And the 7.62x25 Tokarev goes a little faster than 1300fps.

Try 1500-1600fps as an average.
With its 85 grain projectile,thats 424.62 ftlbs of energy to 483.13 ftlbs.
Thats not wimpy.
Its about on a par with just about every other major handgun caliber out there.

At least,thats about what you get with a 4.7 inch barrel and from a commercial production box of 85 grain FMJ Selleir & Bellot,PRVI Partisan,etc.

The Reeds Ammo loads are much hotter and a bit heavier,around 1700-1800fps:eek: with a Hornady XTPJHP 90 grain pill.
At 1750fps thats 611ftlbs of energy.
Nothing extraordinarily special,but still on a par with all the other major handgun calibers.

Were lucky to live in a country with so many innovative choices in personal handgun design and caliber that we can find something we are both physically comfortable with and good with-and psychologically confident in.

If you like a big .50 caliber bullet from a massive revolver thats great.If your into James Bond and you like the diminutive Walther PPK in .32 good for you-but for both calibers the rule is the same,choose ammo that will penetrate properly and make sure you practice with the pistol to ensure good placement during the 'moment of truth'.

And for me,that hot little 7.62x39 tok gives me a nice feeling of comfort,loaded with the hottest ball I can find,because I know it will penetrate barriers and kevlar(which can be done in just about any caliber,given the right projectile),and if I put the bullet where its supposed to be,it'll do its job.

So if you make a decision between 7.62x25 and .40 S&W,base it on YOUR personal preferences,which gun gives you that 'warm' feeling when you hold it-buy good ammo and practice,practice,practice.
The caliber really doesn't matter as much as what you like and what you can do with it.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top