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I am thinking about buying a dpms 20" in 6.8 spc .I think they have a short stroke piston version .What have you all herd about the 6.8?The post ww2 analysis showed the .280was the optimum round.I think 6.8 falls close to this .Anyway I am looking for a little more hitting power than the 5.56 but less than the 7.62x 51 and the 7.62 x 39 while common ,cheap and a cruiser weight hitter dose not fit the bill due to accuracy. What I am looking for is a rifle with very good accuracy in a medium caliber with the ability for the weapon to deliver suppressive fire .The only rifle I can think of is a ar15 HBAR flattop .What do you think?
 

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I am thinking about buying a dpms 20" in 6.8 spc .I think they have a short stroke piston version .What have you all herd about the 6.8?The post ww2 analysis showed the .280was the optimum round.I think 6.8 falls close to this .Anyway I am looking for a little more hitting power than the 5.56 but less than the 7.62x 51 and the 7.62 x 39 while common ,cheap and a cruiser weight hitter dose not fit the bill due to accuracy. What I am looking for is a rifle with very good accuracy in a medium caliber with the ability for the weapon to deliver suppressive fire .The only rifle I can think of is a ar15 HBAR flattop .What do you think?
1. What kind of accuracy are you looking for?

2. Have you priced 6.8 ammo?
 

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1 moa or better and yes the ammo is expensive this is why it will be a niche gun.My ak will handle the grunt work.There are times where I might need a rifle that is used primarily to pick off multiple problems out to 200 to 300 yards .Sometimes if there are enough problems things could also be close. 7.62x51 is a little bulky for quick work is heavy and recoil slows recovery for follow up shots at those closer ranges.Thats why a lower impulse round.5.56 is nice put lacks that extra punch.
 

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Your 1 MOA requirement is unrealistic.

4MOA is the minimum standard for the military rifles from the M1 to the M16.

(It is ALSO coincidently the MOA accepted by the soviets for the AK47)

300 yards and less the AK will do fine @ minute of scumbag.

Conversely, I do not find my M1A scout or FAL carbine too heavy for 'quick work.'

Since you have the AK, why not push it's limits a little, I think you will see that it will sadisfy your required roll.
(A Ultimak and a Aimpoint would help... and the Aimpoint can be used on other guns if you find that you disagree with me)
 

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Deo VIndice
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Nice thought if you can afford to split your resources!
 

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If you reloaded I would suggest a 223/6mm upper on a AR-15 lower as thats the closest thing I can think of that would possibly meet your requirements. Im not sure there is a commercial source for this ammo and if there is I am sure its simular in price to 6.8 and likely in limited supply.

But there is a lot to say about a AK and "minute of scum" bag out to 300 yards. Thats a cheap way to go and a tough combo to beat for what you want to accomplish. Unfortunately your not going to meet the accuracy level you want to reach by going this route.
 

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Transplant
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6.8 is a good round, but it's kind of expensive. IMHO, buy/build a 7.62x39 AR if you like the platform. The rounds are cheaper, and the accuracy is pretty good. It would work well under 300 yards.

When considering an alternate AR caliber, two things are really what I look at; Ammo cost, and magazines. Some alternate calibers will work with standard 5.56 mags, but not as a 30 round capacity. Other calibers require different lower recievers/magazines - the 7.62x39 is one of these. It's worth it if you are willing to pay for it.

I just stick with 5.56 personally, but and building a 6.5 Grendal AR /w 20" for long work. It will suit me fine as a niche weapon, but by no means as a main battle rifle.

6.8 SPC will work beautifully if you are willing to spend the $$$ and stockpile some ammo, for a MBR.

JMHO
 

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Animis Opibusque Parati
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If you want a niche gun, forget the 6.8 and go with the 6.5 Grendel. Does everything the 6.8 does, but will do it out to 1200 yards, with the same recoil.

Practicality-wise, why don't you get an AR and shoot 77gr bullets?
 

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So, why not go with a 7.62 X 39 upper on an M-4 lower?That's what I'm looking at. Bushmaster and Model "1" Sales make whole rifles and uppers that shoot the 7.62 X 39 cartridge AND these uppers/whole rifles give the shooter about 1 MOA with that ammo!!! You can get magazines that fit in the M-4 lowers that hold and cycle X 39 ammo from C Products. Problem solved. An upper, some magazines and some ammo and you're golden. Not a bad deal.
 

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If you are looking for an extremely high accuracy AR style rifle, why not go with the DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor? Ammunition is expensive, but as you have already said, that's not an issue. The DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor AR has consistently reviewed with an accuracy of 12" groups at 1000 meters. It's sub-MOA at 100 meters, and if you want a long distance controllable semi-auto sniper rifle, every review I've seen puts it at the top of the list.

--Wintermute
 

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o_O
o_O

The HELL is wrong with .308 guys?

That would depend on what he's looking for. The .308 is primarily considered to have a maximum effective range of 800 meters (after that it tends to drop rapidly and become inconsistent). Additionally, I have not really seen many sub-moa semi-automatic .308 rifles for under $1200 whereas the flatter trajectory and higher overall velocity of the 6.5 Creedmoor allows for more accurate semi-auto rifles to be produced at a lower overall cost. Other rounds are extremely nice for this as well (such as the .338 Lapua Magnum). If he's looking for solid and consistent accuracy (using high quality match ammunition) in a semi-auto rifle out to say 500 meters for less than $1200, I would say .308/7.62x51Nato every time. If he is looking for a reasonable level of accuracy beyond 800 meters in a sub $1200 semi-auto rifle, I would say he should move to something similar to a 6.5 Creedmoor or a .338 Lapua or something similar (again with match ammunition).

--Wintermute
 

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Your 1 MOA requirement is unrealistic.

4MOA is the minimum standard for the military rifles from the M1 to the M16.

(It is ALSO coincidently the MOA accepted by the soviets for the AK47)

300 yards and less the AK will do fine @ minute of scumbag.

Conversely, I do not find my M1A scout or FAL carbine too heavy for 'quick work.'

Since you have the AK, why not push it's limits a little, I think you will see that it will sadisfy your required roll.
(A Ultimak and a Aimpoint would help... and the Aimpoint can be used on other guns if you find that you disagree with me)
ANY 6.8 Ar will shoot 1MOA as that is what the 6.8 was designed for. Once again Nomad, you need to get your facts straight. Virtually all civvy ARs are 1moa guns. DO YOUR RESEARCH.
As far as an aimpoint goes, right there is your accuracy limiter, as red dots by their nature are limited to 4moa due to the size of the dot. If you want accuracy you use cross hairs, or at the very least a mildot reticle, but even the mildot will limit you to 1 moa where as cross hairs (depending on the scopes adjustability) will allow submoa accuracy.

Son, I suggest you pick up a couple books by known experts and STUDY them cover to cover. You really do not know firearms like you think.
 

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So, why not go with a 7.62 X 39 upper on an M-4 lower?That's what I'm looking at. Bushmaster and Model "1" Sales make whole rifles and uppers that shoot the 7.62 X 39 cartridge AND these uppers/whole rifles give the shooter about 1 MOA with that ammo!!! You can get magazines that fit in the M-4 lowers that hold and cycle X 39 ammo from C Products. Problem solved. An upper, some magazines and some ammo and you're golden. Not a bad deal.
Although I agree with you, the 6.8 will easily retain accuracy out to 800 meters, which it was originally designed for (6.8 SPC= special purpose cartridge). Personally I chose to go with the AR design for 5.56 and 6.8 spc and AK for the 7.62x39, as all three of these really are niche calibers when used in battle rifles, and the rifles that they are most common in are by and far best suited for those niches. After all we wouldnt build an M4 in .45/70, although I wouldnt mind having one!
 

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i would go for the 6.8---has the punch of a .308 & the accuracy of .223---i dont have one but know a couple guys that do & they say nothin but great things about it,..as for mags,..i've seen 6.8 mags for $19 each for 30 rnd.---just get a STAG upper & match it to your lower--put some red paint on the 6.8 mags--as to not confuse'em with your 223 mags
if i had to do it all over again,.i'd do that-but i went the AK & FAL route.....oh ya the 6.8 is expensive...schewwwwwww!!!!!
 

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ANY 6.8 Ar will shoot 1MOA as that is what the 6.8 was designed for. Oh, and accuracy doesn't also depend on the GUN perhaps?Once again Nomad, you need to get your facts straight. Virtually all civvy ARs are 1moa guns. Proof? ... Cause they arn'tDO YOUR RESEARCH. Do yours... prove it
As far as an aimpoint goes, right there is your accuracy limiter, as red dots by their nature are limited to 4moa due to the size of the dot.And here we see you don't know WTF you are talking about http://www.eguns.com/sPearCat/1-4.woa/1/wa/ItemPage?i=AIM11408 WOW... look at that, a Aimpoint Comp 3, avalable in 2 OR 4 moa... I guess you don't know WTF your talking about. If you want accuracy you use cross hairs, or at the very least a mildot reticle, Ummm... a mildot rectical IS a cross hair scope. but even the mildot will limit you to 1 moa where as cross hairs (depending on the scopes adjustability) will allow submoa accuracy.

Son, I suggest you pick up a couple books by known experts and STUDY them cover to cover. You really do not know firearms like you think.
Dude, I susgest you get off your duff, get out there and do some shooting... Stop reading books and DO

(Cause your kinda failing at the factual stuff)
 

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Dude, I susgest you get off your duff, get out there and do some shooting... Stop reading books and DO

(Cause your kinda failing at the factual stuff)
Failing at factual? Roflmao!!! I been Doing since before you were born. The facts speak for themselves. I'm not the one shooting "4moa" battle rifles or telling people they are wrong and then supplying data proving them right. Oh one other thing, try learning to spell ... susgest isnt even close to a typo...
 

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Failing at factual? Roflmao!!! I been Doing since before you were born. The facts speak for themselves. I'm not the one shooting "4moa" battle rifles or telling people they are wrong and then supplying data proving them right. What might that be?Oh one other thing, try learning to spell ... susgest isnt even close to a typo...

They sure DO!


Originally Posted by Palladin

As far as an aimpoint goes, right there is your accuracy limiter, as red dots by their nature are limited to 4moa due to the size of the dot.And here we see you don't know WTF you are talking about http://www.eguns.com/sPearCat/1-4.wo...age?i=AIM11408 WOW... look at that, a Aimpoint Comp 3, avalable in 2 OR 4 moa... I guess you don't know WTF your talking about.
put up or shut up
 

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Aside from all the other stuff going on in this thread...

If you build a 5.56 AR using good parts (DPMS forged lower and upper, high quality bolt and barrel [I like bushmaster]) or other similar quality components, expect a 1 MOA/100 yards or better AR (this means every bullet hitting within 1" of each other at 100 yards, 2"/200yards, 3"/300yards, etc...). For a 6.5 Creedmoor or the 6.8SPC, expect that you should be around 1/2 MOA at 100 yards and extend that out logically (1"/200yards, 1.5"/300yards, ...., 5"/1000yards). My rifles are built using DPMS forged lowers, VLTOR MUR or VIS uppers, bushmaster heavy bull barrels (16" or 20" depending on application), either bushmaster mil-spec or LMT national match bolts and bolt carriers. I usually build M4 style rifles with adjustable stocks, I happen to like the Magpul MIAD grips. For sights, I run anything from magnifying duplex or mil-dot reticle scopes, aimpoint comp M4 or M3 (w or w/out magnifier), EOTech sights (w or w/out magnifier), or flip up match style 1MOA iron sights. I have not yet built a rifle using these configurations that shoots worse than 1MOA (most shoot around 3/4 MOA with some putting in 1/2 MOA).

Every US SpecOps M16/M4 I have seen that's not an SBR for special purposes has been between 1/2 and 3/4 MOA. I haven't dealt extensively with standard military issue A2 M16s, however, I know that soldiers are expected to qualify as expert marksmen with these which most likely puts them around 1.5 to 2 MOA at the absolute worst in order to actually be able to pass the qualifying shoot all the way out to 550meters.

Every review of the DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor that I have seen puts the rifle at 1/2 MOA which will equate to 5" groups at 1000 yards.

As with any weapon, the accuracy and consistency you get will depend highly on the ammunition you use. Using match ammunition is an amazing difference from using mil-spec ammunition (it's also an amazing difference in cost).

--Wintermute
 
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