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Start up the rotors
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FWIW I had my 45-70 out today, destroying 2 litres at 100 yards. Impressive really. Waiting on my buddy to send the pics, I'll post some.

It's really a manageable caliber. I've had good luck with mine and it seems to shoot way flatter than some of the ballistics charts suggest. Was trying a gong that was at 350 yards, but standing with iron sights... wish I knew how close I got.
 
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Lone Wolf
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Discussion Starter #82
I bought a excellent Remington Safari KS in 416 remington for $500 which was pretty cheap. I was going to use it for pigs and black bear, but decided it was too expensive and had too much recoil to shoot. The same gun in 375 win would be awesome.

Don't expect to get more than one shot at a charging big bear. They move to fast. So a bolt action is better for your needs than a lever because of reliability.
What kind of hogs or black bear are you hunting with a 416??? Or even a 375??? Haha. Seems like overkill to me, but whatever floats your boat. All hogs need to die. Filthy creatures.
 

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Back when I had one, I shot a lot of paper patched lead loads in the .375 Holland & Holland cartridge. It's a very good round for that kind of loading. Murderous on Nueces River wild pigs.... .45-70 is a better deal on brass though. Just wish somebody built a good pump action rifle in that chambering.
 

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Wearing fur underwears...
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I don't doubt any of that. I like the guns they make. It's just nails on a chalkboard to me that they call themselves "Henry".
I kind of like that the historic name is kept alive. Just me. It gets a little confusing when a few companies do it, though...
 

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I've been watching new Remlin Guide guns on Gunbroker. I'm seeing them selling NIB for $470 to $480. Remington / Marlin is currently running a $100 rebate on them that ends July 30th.
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/sites/default/files/Marlin_Rifle Rebates_Long Form.pdf

My thought is how bad can they still be? Remington has had a good 6 years of building them since they bought Marlin.

Looking at a recent Hickock45 review video the complaints are:
Heavy Trigger
Poor wood to metal fit
Bluing isn't as nice

$380 for a 45-70 Guide Gun, I think I could live with the bluing and poor wood to metal fit with a laminate stock. An action / trigger job doesn't cost all that much or I could probably smooth up the action and wood to metal fit myself.
 

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Lone Wolf
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Discussion Starter #86
I've been watching new Remlin Guide guns on Gunbroker. I'm seeing them selling NIB for $470 to $480. Remington / Marlin is currently running a $100 rebate on them that ends July 30th.
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/sites/default/files/Marlin_Rifle Rebates_Long Form.pdf

My thought is how bad can they still be? Remington has had a good 6 years of building them since they bought Marlin.

Looking at a recent Hickock45 review video the complaints are:
Heavy Trigger
Poor wood to metal fit
Bluing isn't as nice

$380 for a 45-70 Guide Gun, I think I could live with the bluing and poor wood to metal fit with a laminate stock. An action / trigger job doesn't cost all that much or I could probably smooth up the action and wood to metal fit myself.
Thanks. I take everything he says with a LARGE grain of salt, but I agree that it is a good price.
 

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Have a jm marked, straight stocked, factory ported 1895G. Love the rifle for packing in tight cover on big game. Use 405s to great effect. Buffalo Bore and Garretts are the best if you have the right wallet size. Hornady and Rem SPs good for white tail hunting in brush. It is a formidable rifle within it's range and definitely not one to shoot all day.

Wanted a SS version for a long time so ordered one last year. I had read about problems following buy out by Rem but figured they had fixed the probs after 5 or so years. Wow was I wrong and disappointed. Tool marks, wood to metal fit issues, burrs in the chamber area and irons were crooked. Looked like a return they were trying to resell. Will never buy a new one again. Didn't even bother firing it and returned. Bought another jm marked one on auction site. Will only buy Henry if ever buy new again. Loading gate is an issue but if you've already emptied the magazine and threat is still in pursuit more ammo isn't going to help...run really fast!
 

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Amen to that, Ksmedman....you FOUND the Marlin's Huckleberry, just like I did years ago, when I bought my first Guide Gun when they came on the market....it's the ported one, first on the left, in the pic below, a genuine "JM-stamped" Marlin Guide Gun:



The porting DEFINITELY takes a LOT of the sting of recoil of stout loads out of it.....I was shocked, when I first fired mine with a stout load, just how easy it was to shoot with the ported barrel.....a LOT easier than my old, non-ported 1895 24" rifle with the same load.....

Find a good, pre-Remlin used one that's ported, you won't be disappointed.....

My pet load for it, a 400-grain Speer flat point:





I use a different powder then Ksmedman, and a slightly lighter bullet (400 grain), so use the below load AT YOUR OWN RISK, no liability against me:



The Speer bullets:





WICKED bullets, to say the least.....:eek:

I've knocked 200+ pound Whitetail Deer down SIDEways, at ranges over 120 yards, with this load.....they don't take a step. 400+ grain loads in this caliber are a BEAST load, suitable for most anything that walks the planet.....The Marlin really brings out what this caliber is capable of. :thumb:

Good luck on your 45-70 quest!

DocZeus
AKA
The Big Bore One.....
I'm going to start loading these. The 350gr JHP dump their energy too fast.

I do intend to shoot these out of an H&R Handi Rifle,22" barrel. Any objections would be appreciated!
 

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45-70 gives you about twice the kinetic energy of a 12 gauge slug. Penetration has to be better, since this is focused on a smaller diameter, usually heavier projectile. Add in improved accuracy and range, and there is a good reason why this is such a preferred big animal defensive guide gun.

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.45-70government.html

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.shotgun-slug-ballistics.html
I'd agree 45-70 loaded modern beats 12 ga but not 45-70 doubling 12ga energy. Cherry picking some factory loads yes, but full house 12ga's run 2400-3000ftlbs. 45-70 never doubles that..
 

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Old Grouch
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I'm going to start loading these. The 350gr JHP dump their energy too fast.

I do intend to shoot these out of an H&R Handi Rifle,22" barrel. Any objections would be appreciated!
Good choice, but recoil using doczeus' load will be stout in the handi due to the light weight. I have the Buffalo Classic and I want to try his load also.

 

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I've been looking to get a big bore rifle for awhile now. I want something that I can take with me camping in Grizzly country. I've looked around and narrowed it down to the Marlin guide gun and the Henry all weather. Has anyone had any experience with either of these? If there is a better choice let me know. I definitely want a side ejection rifle, plus Henry and Marlin make good guns. I would want to handload for it so is one better at taking nuclear loads? I'd be using some 405 grain hard cast bullets. Also, how would a 45-70 compare to a 12 gauge with slugs at stopping a charging Grizzly? Let me know what you think.
If your buying new...........

https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895gsbl

Mine is an older pre rem stainless model I bought used. Never had an issue with it, and used it for hunting often. 4570 is no joke.....on either end of said rifle. Either is 12 ga slugs.

Either rifle or shotgun with the right load will stop the classic charging grizzly if you do your part. ( Remain calm, then kill it...lol)

The load pictured below has stopped a few grizzlies without incident......other than dead bears. ( I know this to be a fact as I witnessed it first hand)If your capable, this same load will drop a fully grown bull elk or moose at 200 yards plus. Done this more than once personally. None of them were immune to this load, and both cartridges your looking at are more than capable.

One suggestion: Try on both for size to see which you like and shoot the best with. Including your chosen ammunition. Worrying about which is the more powerful is kinda fun, but either has plenty to dump yogi.
Don't underestimate moose either while on your trip. Mean and stupid are not a great combination...lol. Again......remain calm then kill it.

Note: This may or may not be a factor in your decision but a few actual weights in terms of loaded ammunition.... 4570 405gr = 9.4 lbs per 100rds. 12ga 2 3/4 inch foster slugs = 9.5 lbs per 100 rds. 12 ga 3 inch rifled slugs= 11.25 lbs per 100. ( One can break down the math rather easily if more or less total ammunition is to be toted along for the trip.

Most important suggestion:
Learn all you can about being in bear country, and better yet.....travel with experienced folks who have done it all their lives. I prefer to travel with family and/ or friends who live there, and learned quite a bit from them.
That is the honest answer to bear defense.

11B
 

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I've been looking to get a big bore rifle for awhile now. I want something that I can take with me camping in Grizzly country. I've looked around and narrowed it down to the Marlin guide gun and the Henry all weather. Has anyone had any experience with either of these? If there is a better choice let me know. I definitely want a side ejection rifle, plus Henry and Marlin make good guns. I would want to handload for it so is one better at taking nuclear loads? I'd be using some 405 grain hard cast bullets. Also, how would a 45-70 compare to a 12 gauge with slugs at stopping a charging Grizzly? Let me know what you think.
I work and play in grizzly and brown bear country a lot. In my very humble opinion, if my intent was strictly bear protection camp gun, I use a older Remington 870 Wingmaster magnum with a rifled slug barrel loaded with alternating 3" sabot slugs & 3" 000 buckshot. The margin of error with the business end of a bad bear is a lot greater.
I have been in tense situations before but has always been able de-escalate the situation by remaining relatively calm as possible and back out of a confrontation.
If I'm on foot, away from camp, but not hunting, the Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun (JM) is what I'm carrying. I've never owned a Henry, but I know exactly what my Marlin will do out to a 100yds.
tlw
 

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What kind of hogs or black bear are you hunting with a 416??? Or even a 375??? Haha. Seems like overkill to me, but whatever floats your boat. All hogs need to die. Filthy creatures.
A good hog is a dead hog. All are shot on sight here. 22lr on up to 50bmg.
Most efficient hog slayers are semiautos in 308 from my experience.

PIc below= Favorite huntin rifle next to favorite shotgun. ( M14S and Benelli 121 M1)
Pic2= 3 entirely different loads used to kill hogs. ( 185gr are decent using a can)
Pic3= 2 less pests runnin around. Both snuffed using 168gr OTM.
11B
 

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My Dad has a few Marlin Guide Guns. 16 or 18" looking barrels, ported. I shot one once. Kick was VERY light. That's the extent of my knowledge on the subject, except to say that some brands that WERE good, are not so good now, from what I hear from lever gun fanatics.
 

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I work and play in grizzly and brown bear country a lot. In my very humble opinion, if my intent was strictly bear protection camp gun, I use a older Remington 870 Wingmaster magnum with a rifled slug barrel loaded with alternating 3" sabot slugs & 3" 000 buckshot. The margin of error with the business end of a bad bear is a lot greater.
I have been in tense situations before but has always been able de-escalate the situation by remaining relatively calm as possible and back out of a confrontation.
If I'm on foot, away from camp, but not hunting, the Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun (JM) is what I'm carrying. I've never owned a Henry, but I know exactly what my Marlin will do out to a 100yds.
tlw
I know multiple people in bear country (Alaska), one of which is a state trooper. They use the Brenneke slugs and an 870. Full bore, not sabot. I believe 3" Black Magic, and the 2.75" Classic Magnums. 000 isn't going to do much, it's about like a .38 special. Also, if you are using Sabot slugs, then the buck will fly all over the place, since I presume you have a rifled barrel, or the sabot slugs will be tumbling, and...just not a good combo, and the 000B will not penetrate nearly like it needs to on a large grizzly.
 

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No question about it. The Model 71 is the updated Model 1886 and probably the best action Winchester ever made. It is sad that the .348 is now pretty obsolete.
If I had the money to spare (about $2K), I would love to pick up the Cimarron copy of the model 71 chambered in 45-70. I just can't justify the expense though. Maybe if it came down to $1K.
 
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