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If you are going into remote country with plenty of bears, the last thing you want to do is show up with some obscure caliber. Everyone carriers .45/70 ammo.
 

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I've been tempted to find myself another Enfield #4 after perusing this thread. They make a good .45-70, though one has to build a magazine for the round these days.
 

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well, a 230 grain hollow point would probably explode and lose a lot of its momentum causing insufficient penetration to something like a bear.. a 230 grain FMJ should do the trick though but i havent tried it

given its the same overall length as .223 and an AKM action can handle the bolt thrust i have toyed with the idea of putting it into a 10" SBR AKM bullpup but deemed 45-70 performance out of something the size of an FN P90 to be a tad overkill, but if i was thinking about bear defense that might be just about perfect

how heavy of a bullet do you need? a quick search of midway shows .452" bullets up to 325 grains in JHP, JSP, and flat points
325 grain bullets are still pistol class projectiles. Garrett's 540 grain load will supposedly penetrate the largest of bears end to end and still exit. You can't get that kind of penetration with a pistol weight bullet, no matter how hard you drive it. Any of the heavier hard cast bullets with a wide meplat would work fine if driven hard.
 

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Pump shotgun barrels easily swap out. I can take my dove gun, put a slug barrel on it, and then change it over to a turkey barrel if I wish all in the same day. That pump shotgun I use with my slug barrel can be used for types of hunting.
You don't say! What will they think of next? Maybe they will come up with different uppers for the AR so one could quickly change from a varmint caliber to a medium game caliber, to a dangerous game caliber.

Action release - When you fire a pump, you do not have to use the action release to load the next round. All you do is rack the slide and you do this while the shotgun is mounted to your shoulder.
If you are handed a lever action rifle with and empty chamber, cocked hammer, loaded magazine or you have a dud cartridge you work the lever and you are back in business. If you are handed a shotgun in the same condition you can jerk on the fore end until hell freezes over nothing is going to happen unless you know the secret.


As for practice, anyone with sense is going to practice with a weapon for hunting or bear defense before they take it to the field.

Ever worked in a gun shop? Didn't think so. If you had you would know that there is a large subset of the hunting population that comes into the shop a few days before opening day who buy a rifle and scope, ask the shop to mount and bore sight it in time for them to leave for the deer lease. Who needs training and practice?

BTW, You willing to shoot my slug gun with the factory ammo of my choice? It is an 11-87 super mag loaded with 1 3/8 ounce magnum slugs. Or I can put the smooth super full chock back in and let you have a go with the 3.5" magnum 00 buck. I promise you it is fun.
 

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Wearing fur underwears...
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Marlin. But in honesty, Henry as a company simply bugs me for illogical reasons, so I'm biased. That said, the Marlin .45-70 guns will do very well.

Or you could join the Trapdoor brotherhood ... kidding ... for your purposes, Marlin.
Henry from all I've read and been told of it, is second to none for customer service.

On one of the forums I frequent, one of the top guys posts there once in a while. And Henry president Anthony Imperato is supposed to be a heck of a nice guy too.

The Henrys I have handled are all flawless, have great fit and finish, very smooth actions (especially with the Brass receivers) and better than average wood. You can tell, they take pride in what they do. And my Big Boy quickly earned a place as one of the favourites.

Classy guns, and company. Truth be told, I would probably buy a Henry than take a chance with a new Marlin.
 

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If you are interested in mimicking .45-70 ballistics in a semi-auto, you could also look into the .458 SOCOM. It actually uses .45-70 bullets, and can be built on an AR-15 lower.

Though loads for that cartridge are on the light side of what .45-70 can do in the right gun - more on par with old trapdoor loads.

There's also .50 Beowulf.

Gotta say, though. I think for the purpose you stated in the OP, I'd stick with your original thought, Marlin .45-70.
The Beowulf is kinda neat. Though I would really be casting for it, as there doesn't seem to be much for bullets. A bit expensive, and you start losing SD with the bullets also.

458 socom only matches the low end of 45-70, the black powder stuff and the brass for it is many times more expensive than 308 brass
Probably not much difference in brass price, if the OP is not forming his own.

And that "low end" is nothing to stick the incautious finger in front of...
 

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If you are going into remote country with plenty of bears, the last thing you want to do is show up with some obscure caliber. Everyone carriers .45/70 ammo.
I think the idea is to show up with ammo. You're not going to buy anything in the bush.

Not everyone carries 45-70. I like it, and it's not going anywhere, but the local hardware store doesn't carry it, and there is never any 45-70 brass at the range. If I needed 45-70, I would have to drive about an hour.
 

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Henry from all I've read and been told of it, is second to none for customer service.

On one of the forums I frequent, one of the top guys posts there once in a while. And Henry president Anthony Imperato is supposed to be a heck of a nice guy too.

The Henrys I have handled are all flawless, have great fit and finish, very smooth actions (especially with the Brass receivers) and better than average wood. You can tell, they take pride in what they do. And my Big Boy quickly earned a place as one of the favourites.

Classy guns, and company. Truth be told, I would probably buy a Henry than take a chance with a new Marlin.
I don't doubt any of that. I like the guns they make. It's just nails on a chalkboard to me that they call themselves "Henry".
 

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325 grain bullets are still pistol class projectiles. Garrett's 540 grain load will supposedly penetrate the largest of bears end to end and still exit. You can't get that kind of penetration with a pistol weight bullet, no matter how hard you drive it. Any of the heavier hard cast bullets with a wide meplat would work fine if driven hard.
how much penetration are you after?
 

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Well, the thread is about grizzly defense. So I'd say a charging grizzly's worth of penetration.
well .460S&W gets over 3 feet of penetration and 2,800ft/lbs of muzzle energy from an 8 inch barrel, people use this round for bear defense now with success.. a .45 raptor is just a rimless .460S&W.. out of a 16-18 inch barrel you would get even more energy and even deeper penetration than that and the ability to hit the bear with more rounds.. i wouldnt feel defenseless with something like that against a grizzly.. you are talking equal muzzle energy to a modern loaded 45-70 afterall

i can understand wanting something more mainstream and proven though
 

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Garrett's 540 grain load will supposedly penetrate the largest of bears end to end and still exit. You can't get that kind of penetration with a pistol weight bullet, no matter how hard you drive it. Any of the heavier hard cast bullets with a wide meplat would work fine if driven hard.
They really don't need to be driven that hard. Garrett's 420 grain "Government load" will blow through both sides of any bear, at a much more reasonable recoil level. Higher velocities can actually reduce penetration.
 

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well .460S&W gets over 3 feet of penetration and 2,800ft/lbs of muzzle energy from an 8 inch barrel, people use this round for bear defense now with success.. a .45 raptor is just a rimless .460S&W.. out of a 16-18 inch barrel you would get even more energy and even deeper penetration than that and the ability to hit the bear with more rounds.. i wouldnt feel defenseless with something like that against a grizzly.. you are talking equal muzzle energy to a modern loaded 45-70 afterall

i can understand wanting something more mainstream and proven though
A grizzly is really fast when it charges. It has thick skin, heavy bones, and is very muscular, and it's a long animal when it's down on all four. it also bounds and bobs as it runs. So you don't have time to get in many shots, and it's plenty hard to make a perfect hit.

I want penetration in case I don't hit something vital going in. Maybe it'll hit something on the way out. The spine, a hip, something. it would be a shame for a bullet to come to a stop a few feet in, having not hit anything vital, and the spine being perhaps only one foot farther. As the poster below you mentioned, increasing velocity can decrease penetration sometimes.

But most importantly here. The OP specifically asked for recommendations on .45-70s. And that's what I gave. There's a lesson in there somewhere.
 

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I have the Marlin and can highly recommend it. If you can find one with the ported barrel, it seems to help keep muzzle rise down a bit compared to other guns I've fired in the same weight range. For bear defense, that would help you get a second shot a little quicker.
You don't want a ported barrel if your concerned about your hearing. Even one shot can have unfortunate life long consequences. This is especially true if you fire where there are large objects that reflect the sound back to you.

Instead use a recoil pad for practice and don't worry about the recoil when protecting against bears.
 

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You don't want a ported barrel if your concerned about your hearing. Even one shot can have life long consequences. Have a recoil pad for practice and don't worry about the recoil when protecting against bears.
I agree. I dislike the ported Marlin's although I do own one, along with several non ported 45-70's. A Marlin 1895 shooting a strong but reasonable load like the Garrett Government, may not be exactly pleasant for an extended session off the bench, but it's not that bad. I've had teenagers and 115 lb women shoot mine with little complaint. A Limbsaver pad helps a lot. And like most hunting rifles, the recoil won't even register when used in the field.

Especially true if a bear was charging you. :eek:
 

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I've been looking to get a big bore rifle for awhile now. I want something that I can take with me camping in Grizzly country. I've looked around and narrowed it down to the Marlin guide gun and the Henry all weather. Has anyone had any experience with either of these? If there is a better choice let me know. I definitely want a side ejection rifle, plus Henry and Marlin make good guns. I would want to handload for it so is one better at taking nuclear loads? I'd be using some 405 grain hard cast bullets. Also, how would a 45-70 compare to a 12 gauge with slugs at stopping a charging Grizzly? Let me know what you think.
I bought a excellent Remington Safari KS in 416 remington for $500 which was pretty cheap. I was going to use it for pigs and black bear, but decided it was too expensive and had too much recoil to shoot. The same gun in 375 win would be awesome.

Don't expect to get more than one shot at a charging big bear. They move to fast. So a bolt action is better for your needs than a lever because of reliability.
 

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I bought a excellent Remington Safari KS in 416 remington for $500 which was pretty cheap. I was going to use it for pigs and black bear, but decided it was too expensive and had too much recoil to shoot. The same gun in 375 win would be awesome.

Don't expect to get more than one shot at a charging big bear. They move to fast. So a bolt action is better for your needs than a lever because of reliability.
How do you come to that conclusion?
 
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