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All that to say the .350 Legend is capable of higher performance that the factory loadings due to its 55K psi rating.
And all the google facts are real life facts web browsers here ignorantly claim a same caliber cartridge at 15,000 less psi is identical. Still they have no clue how idiotic that makes them look.
 

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And all the google facts are real life facts web browsers here ignorantly claim a same caliber cartridge at 15,000 less psi is identical. Still they have no clue how idiotic that makes them look.
You keep ranting about internet facts and real world facts, but do you have real world experience with the 350 Legend? If not, what makes your opinion any different?
 

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And all the google facts are real life facts web browsers here ignorantly claim a same caliber cartridge at 15,000 less psi is identical. Still they have no clue how idiotic that makes them look.
You mistakenly think "pressure" has something to do with performance when the data refuting your ramblings has been shown.
 

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You keep ranting about internet facts and real world facts, but do you have real world experience with the 350 Legend? If not, what makes your opinion any different?
Do you have any experience shooting where there’s a 15,000 psi difference for the same diameter projectile? It should be easily quantified. Go shoot some 380 on calibrated poppers. Won’t even barely rock it. Shoot some 9x19mm at the same popper. It’ll tip over. The psi difference between the two is 15,000 psi.

It’s not an opinion. I also told you identical claimers when shooters run the 357 max to 54,000 psi they get 600-700 FPS more over factory spec 357 max ammo. If you internet fact runners had real life shooting experience you’d be posting the same as I am.
 

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https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html

Lots of info in that article, here are a few snippets.

"With light for caliber bullets (150-180 grain) loaded at 55,000 psi, the .350 Legend approaches the performance of the .35 Remington with the same bullet weights. Although the .35 Rem. is a larger cartridge in all dimensions except bullet diameter (up to 2.525 inches COL), it operates at a much lower pressure (33,500 psi MAP)."
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"Winchester's initial promotional material touts the .350 Legend as the fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world. (See ballistics chart at top of page.) This claim is simply false."

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"Comparing American factory loads shooting hunting bullets, the .350 Legend is slower at the muzzle than the 9.3x74R (Nosler 250 grain at 2550 fps and Federal 286 grain at 2360 fps), .444 Marlin (Hornady 265 grain at 2400 fps) and .458 Win. Magnum (Federal 350 grain at 2470 fps). Since Winchester advertises "in the world," you could add various British and European factory loads for cartridges seldom seen in the USA to the list, but you get the idea."

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"The highest velocity .350 Legend loads are almost inevitably going to prove to be the poorest and least effective choices for hunting Class 2 animals. For example, Remington has long offered a 150 grain Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point (SD .168) factory load at 2300 fps for the .35 Remington. Unfortunately, this load has a bad reputation among experienced .35 Remington users, because the bullet is too light for the caliber, penetrates poorly and sheds velocity rapidly. Consequently, it has never sold well."

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"Revolver cartridges, such as the .357 Magnum, used for hunting in both long barreled revolvers and lever action carbines, get by with lighter hunting bullets, typically 158-180 grains, because the assumption is the range to the game animal will be much shorter (typically around 50 yards) than with actual rifle cartridges. Since Winchester is advertising the .350 Legend as a 200 yard deer cartridge, it must be compared to other medium range rifle cartridges, not short range revolver cartridges adapted to carbines."

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"The most reasonable ballistic comparison for the .350 Legend would be with the .35 Remington, which was introduced in 1908 and is still alive and well today. The .35 Remington has been offered in a variety of pump, autoloading and bolt action rifles over the years and is primarily offered in the Marlin 336 and Henry Side Gate lever actions today.

Ballistically, the .350 Legend is a slightly less powerful and less versatile cartridge (depending on the loads compared) than the .35 Remington, when the latter is shooting traditional factory loads that launch a 150 grain Pointed Soft Point bullet (SD .168) at a MV of 2300 fps, or a 200 grain Round Nose bullet (SD .223) at 2080 fps (Remington figures).

The recently introduced Hornady LEVERevolution factory load for the .35 Remington elevates its performance beyond the reach of the .350 Legend. It calls for a 200 grain FTX bullet (SD .223) at a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198, which easily exceeds the power and performance of any .350 Legend load and it is loaded within the SAAMI mandated33,500 psi MAP of the .35 Rem."

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https://thereloadersnetwork.com/2019/01/31/350-legend-specifications/
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"The following information comes straight from the marketing brochure that Winchester provided.

They claim that the 350 Legend has “more energy that 30-30 Win., 300 Blackout and 223 Rem.” They included a chart with that claim that shows a 200 yard energy comparison. The 300 Blackout data was with a 16″ barrel, and the rest were with 20″ barrels. the 350 is listed as 903 ft-lbs, while the 300 Blackout is listed as 790, the 30-30 Win is listed as 781, and the 223 Rem is listed as 603. (They do not specify what the various test bullets or loads were.)

It’s the “fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge.” Here’s the velocities they provided:

145 grn FMJ – 2,350 fps
150 grn Deer Season XP – 2,325 fps
265 grn Super Suppressed – 1,060 fps
160 grn Power Max Bonded – 2,225 fps
180 grn Power-Point – 2,100 fps

The SAAMI sheet lists 145 grn at 2,250 fps from a 16″ test barrel with a 1:16 twist.

It has “approximately 20% less recoil than 243 Win with 20% more penetration.” And, it has “less recoil than 450 Bushmaster.” They have a couple charts that show recoil numbers with 7 lb rifles, and then a chart showing 20% gel penetration numbers at 200 yds.

Legend? It will be interesting to see the reports once this makes it to the market and to the field."
`
 

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Someone's not going to like those facts.
Google facts. I know guys with TC Encore running 357 max to 54,000 psi and get just under 2700fps. If your web googled facts suggest 350 ballistics at 55,000 psi are still equal to factory max ammo at SAAMI max psi, then you just aren’t getting out and shooting. No matter how hard you try to google a reputation of being “knowledgeable”, you might fool the fools yapping in your circle. You don’t look too experienced to those who know.

That’s your fault. Not mine.
 

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Quit being ridiculous.

It’s not the pressure.

It’s the velocity and the mass.

Energy is NOT directly related to pressure.

Velocity can be, but it’s not linear, and it is affected by mass as well.

You want more pop on the poppers? Add velocity and or weight. More pressure should give you more velocity.

But more pressure without more velocity or heavier bullets won’t do squat.
 

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Does anybody here not think that having factory loads widely available has any value ? Especially for a hunting cartridge which this certainly is , it’s a big deal.

The reason 300 BO is better than 300 whisper , even though they are the same thing, is that you can get 300 BO at academy or any other place and shoot it. It’s got a Sami spec and it’s readily available.

Wildcat or boutique loads are fine. But there is value in widely available ammo.
 

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https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html

Lots of info in that article, here are a few snippets.

"With light for caliber bullets (150-180 grain) loaded at 55,000 psi, the .350 Legend approaches the performance of the .35 Remington with the same bullet weights. Although the .35 Rem. is a larger cartridge in all dimensions except bullet diameter (up to 2.525 inches COL), it operates at a much lower pressure (33,500 psi MAP)."
.

"Winchester's initial promotional material touts the .350 Legend as the fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world. (See ballistics chart at top of page.) This claim is simply false."

.


"Comparing American factory loads shooting hunting bullets, the .350 Legend is slower at the muzzle than the 9.3x74R (Nosler 250 grain at 2550 fps and Federal 286 grain at 2360 fps), .444 Marlin (Hornady 265 grain at 2400 fps) and .458 Win. Magnum (Federal 350 grain at 2470 fps). Since Winchester advertises "in the world," you could add various British and European factory loads for cartridges seldom seen in the USA to the list, but you get the idea."

.


"The highest velocity .350 Legend loads are almost inevitably going to prove to be the poorest and least effective choices for hunting Class 2 animals. For example, Remington has long offered a 150 grain Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point (SD .168) factory load at 2300 fps for the .35 Remington. Unfortunately, this load has a bad reputation among experienced .35 Remington users, because the bullet is too light for the caliber, penetrates poorly and sheds velocity rapidly. Consequently, it has never sold well."

.

"Revolver cartridges, such as the .357 Magnum, used for hunting in both long barreled revolvers and lever action carbines, get by with lighter hunting bullets, typically 158-180 grains, because the assumption is the range to the game animal will be much shorter (typically around 50 yards) than with actual rifle cartridges. Since Winchester is advertising the .350 Legend as a 200 yard deer cartridge, it must be compared to other medium range rifle cartridges, not short range revolver cartridges adapted to carbines."

.

"The most reasonable ballistic comparison for the .350 Legend would be with the .35 Remington, which was introduced in 1908 and is still alive and well today. The .35 Remington has been offered in a variety of pump, autoloading and bolt action rifles over the years and is primarily offered in the Marlin 336 and Henry Side Gate lever actions today.

Ballistically, the .350 Legend is a slightly less powerful and less versatile cartridge (depending on the loads compared) than the .35 Remington, when the latter is shooting traditional factory loads that launch a 150 grain Pointed Soft Point bullet (SD .168) at a MV of 2300 fps, or a 200 grain Round Nose bullet (SD .223) at 2080 fps (Remington figures).

The recently introduced Hornady LEVERevolution factory load for the .35 Remington elevates its performance beyond the reach of the .350 Legend. It calls for a 200 grain FTX bullet (SD .223) at a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198, which easily exceeds the power and performance of any .350 Legend load and it is loaded within the SAAMI mandated33,500 psi MAP of the .35 Rem."

.

https://thereloadersnetwork.com/2019/01/31/350-legend-specifications/
`


"The following information comes straight from the marketing brochure that Winchester provided.

They claim that the 350 Legend has “more energy that 30-30 Win., 300 Blackout and 223 Rem.” They included a chart with that claim that shows a 200 yard energy comparison. The 300 Blackout data was with a 16″ barrel, and the rest were with 20″ barrels. the 350 is listed as 903 ft-lbs, while the 300 Blackout is listed as 790, the 30-30 Win is listed as 781, and the 223 Rem is listed as 603. (They do not specify what the various test bullets or loads were.)

It’s the “fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge.” Here’s the velocities they provided:

145 grn FMJ – 2,350 fps
150 grn Deer Season XP – 2,325 fps
265 grn Super Suppressed – 1,060 fps
160 grn Power Max Bonded – 2,225 fps
180 grn Power-Point – 2,100 fps

The SAAMI sheet lists 145 grn at 2,250 fps from a 16″ test barrel with a 1:16 twist.

It has “approximately 20% less recoil than 243 Win with 20% more penetration.” And, it has “less recoil than 450 Bushmaster.” They have a couple charts that show recoil numbers with 7 lb rifles, and then a chart showing 20% gel penetration numbers at 200 yds.

Legend? It will be interesting to see the reports once this makes it to the market and to the field."
`
Man do hope the 450 bushmaster has more recoil! Factory 250 grain FTX is speced at 2200 FPS. So wider, heavier bullet going faster has more recoil, of course!
 

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Does anybody here not think that having factory loads widely available has any value ? Especially for a hunting cartridge which this certainly is , it’s a big deal.

The reason 300 BO is better than 300 whisper , even though they are the same thing, is that you can get 300 BO at academy or any other place and shoot it. It’s got a Sami spec and it’s readily available.

Wildcat or boutique loads are fine. But there is value in widely available ammo.
Yep. The two-bit word for it is logistics....

Quit being ridiculous.

It’s not the pressure.

It’s the velocity and the mass.

Energy is NOT directly related to pressure.

Velocity can be, but it’s not linear, and it is affected by mass as well.

You want more pop on the poppers? Add velocity and or weight. More pressure should give you more velocity.

But more pressure without more velocity or heavier bullets won’t do squat.
It will pop your primers and beat hell out of the gun for you. And it may give you a face full of hot gas and tiny pieces of lead and brass in the eyes if you carry the process too far. Been there.... In my younger know-it-all days....
 

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Quit being ridiculous.

It’s not the pressure.

It’s the velocity and the mass.

Energy is NOT directly related to pressure.

Velocity can be, but it’s not linear, and it is affected by mass as well.

You want more pop on the poppers? Add velocity and or weight. More pressure should give you more velocity.

But more pressure without more velocity or heavier bullets won’t do squat.
Wtf are you babbling about. Next up you'll tell us gun powder is fairy dust and when each tiny granule of powder burns it releases a fairy. The faster the fairy twinkles her nose the faster the bullet goes. The catch is fairies twinkle their nose faster for internet popular cartridges so they go faster no matter the pressure. Either you make up a story to support your Internet facts or I'm going to assume one for you because you aren't explaining how your fantasy ballistics work.

Do you want to explain to everyone how your fantasy ballistics work when comparing 40k psi 357 max loads to 54k psi 357 max loads and why the loads with 14k psi more are moving 700 fps faster. If it's not pressure and you know why the higher pressure loads are faster then you got some explaining to do.

If we get more of your you said so I'm going to keep assuming your gun powder is fortified with more fairies than mine that twinkle their nose faster making your ammo better than everyone else's.
 

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Google facts. I know guys with TC Encore running 357 max to 54,000 psi and get just under 2700fps. If your web googled facts suggest 350 ballistics at 55,000 psi are still equal to factory max ammo at SAAMI max psi, then you just aren’t getting out and shooting. No matter how hard you try to google a reputation of being “knowledgeable”, you might fool the fools yapping in your circle. You don’t look too experienced to those who know.

That’s your fault. Not mine.
You keep saying the same things again and again, thinking the outcome will somehow change.

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
 

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The 6.5 Swede was and is an awesome cartridge, but won’t function properly through short action rifles and also won’t work in an “MSR”. Look at current rifle chamberings, the 6.5 CM is hotter than hot right now and keeps growing in popularity. The CM also has some refinements in case design that lend themselves to improved efficiency and accuracy. Yeah it’s a repackaging of an old design in a new way, but it offers concrete benefits over the original.
i went 260 rem... limits my max projectile weight compared to the CM, but as long as i can launch 130 gr pills im happy. little easier to reform from 308 brass compared to the CM.

for me, caliber choice is often a decision based on handloading... i suspect the 350 legend will probably only appeal to handloaders (doubt it will have as much commercial success as the CM)... but time will tell.
 

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Lets stop the ****ing contest and get to the facts. Has anyone shot anything with the 350? I have shot some big game with my 357 and it worked just fine. Would a faster, heavier projectile work better? Are the projectiles constructed to function the 350 velocity? Light projectiles in the 357 max tend to be fragile and may not always penetrate well. Bottom line is the 350 will never be a 30-06 but neither will a 223.
 

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Quit being ridiculous.

It’s not the pressure.

It’s the velocity and the mass.

Energy is NOT directly related to pressure.

Velocity can be, but it’s not linear, and it is affected by mass as well.

You want more pop on the poppers? Add velocity and or weight. More pressure should give you more velocity.

But more pressure without more velocity or heavier bullets won’t do squat.
^^^^ Bingo on this right here.

internal ballistics are dependent on a lot of factors, even with a slower burn rate powder with longer barrels you might not achieve SAAMI max pressures, but you can still replicate theoretical max energies of 'hotter' rounds.

max pressures generally are only a concern with faster burning powders... that is generally why i use slighly more conservative slower burning powders where i can (H322 in 5.56 for instance as opposed to 335... blue dot in 9x19 as opposed to W231)... its a bit more forgiving without sacrificing much performance.

max pressure is a one dimensional statistic and doesn't account for sustained pressure over time as the projectile moves down the bbl... that is why slower burning powders can do so well in longer bbls.... if you are the type of person to want to keep getting shorter and shorter bbls without sacrificing performance, then you have to turn to faster burning powders, but if you plan on using standard 16"+ bbls then it shouldnt be an issue.
 

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Wtf are you babbling about. Next up you'll tell us gun powder is fairy dust and when each tiny granule of powder burns it releases a fairy. The faster the fairy twinkles her nose the faster the bullet goes. The catch is fairies twinkle their nose faster for internet popular cartridges so they go faster no matter the pressure. Either you make up a story to support your Internet facts or I'm going to assume one for you because you aren't explaining how your fantasy ballistics work.

Do you want to explain to everyone how your fantasy ballistics work when comparing 40k psi 357 max loads to 54k psi 357 max loads and why the loads with 14k psi more are moving 700 fps faster. If it's not pressure and you know why the higher pressure loads are faster then you got some explaining to do.

If we get more of your you said so I'm going to keep assuming your gun powder is fortified with more fairies than mine that twinkle their nose faster making your ammo better than everyone else's.
 

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You keep saying the same things again and again, thinking the outcome will somehow change.
Nothing is going to change. In the real world that is. When you push a 150 grain bullet that’s 35 caliber with 15,000 more psi than another 35 caliber 150 grain, it’s going to go faster.

I’m also aware your little trying to fit in thing you got going in this cyber world isn’t going to change either. You win the internet, and I know how ballistics work when I’m not reading asinine it’s the same thing posts.
 
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