14 Unexpected Responses To Hatred

6823 Views 61 Replies 25 Participants Last post by Wise Owl, Jan 23, 2014

DrReco

Discussion Starter · Jan 14, 2014

In a world of so much bad news, it is important to also hear about the good.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...inst-hate_n_4571211.html?utm_hp_ref=good-news

I could not be more eloquent than Paul Kearney, who wrote these appropriately beautiful words in the comments of the hyperlinked story:

"I am truly touched by these, and hope that more of us stand up, to the extremists, who are trying to hijack our world. We see so much extreme actions, and hear hate filled rhetoric, ad nauseum, good men must do something, or freedom means nothing."

(From the story)
"7. This teen showed what happens when you respect even those who hate you.

In June of 1996 in Ann Arbor, a fairly liberal town in southeastern Michigan, the Ku Klux Klan scheduled a rally at city hall. When locals heard the news, 300 protestors, including Keshia Thomas, then 18 years old, turned up to to counter the KKK. A mere 17 Klansmen participated in the rally, grossly outnumbered by the protestors. When one white supremacist got mixed in with the counter-demonstration, the event turned violent, with the KKK member falling to the ground getting kicked and beaten with sticks.

People shouted "Kill the Nazi," and it could have turned deadly if not for Thomas, who jumped on top of the man to protect him from the mob's blows. She very well could have saved the life of a man who was there to actively promote hate of people like her -- a man who might not have cared whether she herself lived or died."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...inst-hate_n_4571211.html?utm_hp_ref=good-news

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yakergreg

· #21 · Jan 15, 2014

*******s come in all colors. As do heroes.

Reactions: 5

mutter87

· #22 · Jan 15, 2014

Wise Owl said:
Does anyone here actually know an "average racist"? Im not talking about the vermin you see on tv, spouting hate and shouting ***********. I mean real racists. Believe it or not, there are alot of them and they are in all races. And many of them do have close friends in other races. For example, one of the guys who works for me (Tim) absolutely will not date women of another race, and he is black. For him, its a cultural thing. He told me, "you dont see cardinals and blue birds mating, do you? Do you see horses mating with goats?" I know white guys that feel the same. But Tim and another one of my workers (Mark) are best friends. They go fishing together. One is always at the others house. Tim's car broke down and he called Mark at 2am. Mark showed up 45 minutes later. Mark's kids call Tim, Uncle Tim. But neither believes in "mixing" of the races. In case you havent guessed, Mark is white.

Yeah, what's wrong with that? It's two guys that want to preserve their culture and heritage. People could actually learn something from these guys.

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DrReco

Discussion Starter · #23 · Jan 15, 2014

dontbuypotteryfromme said:
I always liked this story.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqV-egZOS1E

Haha... That story was epic!

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junglecrawler

· #24 · Jan 15, 2014

This issue is never going to be solved.

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DrReco

Discussion Starter · #25 · Jan 15, 2014

junglecrawler said:
This issue is never going to be solved.

Of course it will! There are much bigger fights to be fought. Mankind, as we know it, is relatively young. Look at our advancements just in the last 200 years vs the previous 2000...

Phony illusions like race are really small potatoes to some of the other information wars currently being waged.

Reactions: 2

Wise Owl

· #26 · Jan 15, 2014

East Coast Woods said:
Agree that there are racist of every color, however as related to marriage does not believing in mixed race marriage make one a racists? That seems to be their beliefs , and being such good friends I question if one would discriminate against the other.

Seems neither are racists, but they just don't believe in mixed marriage. Just as many don't believe illegal aliens should be here by virtue of them being illegal, or are not in favor of the current administration because of their belief in the course this country should take, but others will say they are racist because they voice their opinions concerning an issue involving another race.

Actually, they are what most would consider racists. Dont forget, interracial marriage was once illegal in most states. The battle cry of those who were for interracial marriage was "racism". Each of them wants to preserve their culture and heritage. Why? Because they believe that they are unique and, in a way, superior to all others. So yes, they are racists. They will tell you the same thing. Both call themselves racists and are proud of it. They both claim they are "fighting for their people".

Since I am bi-racial (Cherokee and Caucasian), I found this fascinating. I have several black guys working for me and, almost to a man, they all feel superior in one way or another to whites. Only one dates white women. Yet, many have close white friends. One of the black guys goes to Confederate reinactments. It seems one of his ancestors was white and fought for the South. Even though he doesnt date outside his "race", he still celebrates his white ancestor's deeds. It seems a bit conflicted to me, but it makes sense to him.

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tricky48

· #27 · Jan 15, 2014

Wise Owl said:
Actually, they are what most would consider racists. Dont forget, interracial marriage was once illegal in most states. The battle cry of those who were for interracial marriage was "racism". Each of them wants to preserve their culture and heritage. Why? Because they believe that they are unique and, in a way, superior to all others. So yes, they are racists. They will tell you the same thing. Both call themselves racists and are proud of it. They both claim they are "fighting for their people".

Since I am bi-racial (Cherokee and Caucasian), I found this fascinating. I have several black guys working for me and, almost to a man, they all feel superior in one way or another to whites. Only one dates white women. Yet, many have close white friends. One of the black guys goes to Confederate reinactments. It seems one of his ancestors was white and fought for the South. Even though he doesnt date outside his "race", he still celebrates his white ancestor's deeds. It seems a bit conflicted to me, but it makes sense to him.

I do not understand the equating of preserving a culture as racist. I have no restraints on myself in that regard and have dated both a Vietnamese and a Honduran, but I find no fault with those who stay within their race. Attraction is a funny thing... and I can attest to the culture differences being insurmountable for some people (not me, I enjoy learning about and absorbing, especially Asian, cultures, I've always felt I should have found a way to go over there before I had a family, just one of those indescribable feelings one has). Yes there is a difference between culture and race, and culture is usually the culprit for racist accusations. But there are differences in the races themselves. Just not bad ones. The perspective has to change.

Dr Reco said that he hoped that the illusion of race would disappear, I go one step in the opposite direction and say that I hope we will stop villianizing the acceptance of differences between race and culture, and embrace them and value them. The differences are what makes it great. I don't want a One People, all looking alike and of the same mind. How boring would that be? Instead, it should be the goal of our race hating/exploiting nation to accept and celebrate that there are differences in both culture and race. Not divisive differences, but additive ones, that together, make us all better.

I still feel that the individual should never be judged for the color of his/her skin when it comes to the character and value of that individual, just that it should not be ignored when it comes to the understanding of that individual, both by him/her self and everyone else, as a whole.

JMHO

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Wise Owl

· #28 · Jan 15, 2014

tricky48 said:
I do not understand the equating of preserving a culture as racist. I have no restraints on myself in that regard and have dated both a Vietnamese and a Honduran, but I find no fault with those who stay within their race. Attraction is a funny thing... and I can attest to the culture differences being insurmountable for some people (not me, I enjoy learning about and absorbing, especially Asian, cultures, I've always felt I should have found a way to go over there before I had a family, just one of those indescribable feelings one has). Yes there is a difference between culture and race, and culture is usually the culprit for racist accusations. But there are differences in the races themselves. Just not bad ones. The perspective has to change.

Dr Reco said that he hoped that the illusion of race would disappear, I go one step in the opposite direction and say that I hope we will stop villianizing the acceptance of differences between race and culture, and embrace them and value them. The differences are what makes it great. I don't want a One People, all looking alike and of the same mind. How boring would that be? Instead, it should be the goal of our race hating/exploiting nation to accept and celebrate that there are differences in both culture and race. Not divisive differences, but additive ones, that together, make us all better.

I still feel that the individual should never be judged for the color of his/her skin when it comes to the character and value of that individual, just that it should not be ignored when it comes to the understanding of that individual, both by him/her self and everyone else, as a whole.

JMHO

Im not arguing anyone's side here. Just pointing out a fact.

These guys believe their culture is superior to anyone else's. Ive tried to get a reasoned response from them, but nothing so far. Ive pointed out that most people equate culture to race, and that by thinking your culture race is superior, the person thinking that way is technically a racist. They agreed that they are racists. Yet, they have friends that are other races.

I found it facinating that they could hold such views while having close friends who they felt came from inferior cultures/races.

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grant80

· #29 · Jan 15, 2014

DrReco said:
If I didn't hold the faith I do, then I might agree with this. However, there has been an awful lot of compassion shown me that I haven't deserved.

Undeserved compassion and misplaced compassion aren't necessarily the same thing.

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tricky48

· #30 · Jan 15, 2014

Wise Owl said:
Im not arguing anyone's side here. Just pointing out a fact.

These guys believe their culture is superior to anyone else's. Ive tried to get a reasoned response from them, but nothing so far. Ive pointed out that most people equate culture to race, and that by thinking your culture race is superior, the person thinking that way is technically a racist. They agreed that they are racists. Yet, they have friends that are other races.

I found it facinating that they could hold such views while having close friends who they felt came from inferior cultures/races.

Wasn't accusing you Wise Owl... your post just reminded me of how crazy this whole thing has become.

I know, the thinking is skewed, and comfortable would be a better word than superior. And instead of racist the buzzword should be culturist... or differentist... or something.

Instead, even the people who really hate, not just surface hate where one makes fun of those that are different than them, but really deep down hatred, it's really the culture that poses the biggest threat to their worldview. Culture can be learned. Looks can be overcome. By perpetuating the Race card at every corner, though, it will never be any different.

You are right, though, I have seen similar behavior and thinking and it boggles the mind, unless you can understand the culture they were brought up in. Then, it's not so hard...

Wise Owl

· #31 · Jan 15, 2014

tricky48 said:
Wasn't accusing you Wise Owl... your post just reminded me of how crazy this whole thing has become.

I know, the thinking is skewed, and comfortable would be a better word than superior. And instead of racist the buzzword should be culturist... or differentist... or something.

Instead, even the people who really hate, not just surface hate where one makes fun of those that are different than them, but really deep down hatred, it's really the culture that poses the biggest threat to their worldview. Culture can be learned. Looks can be overcome. By perpetuating the Race card at every corner, though, it will never be any different.

You are right, though, I have seen similar behavior and thinking and it boggles the mind, unless you can understand the culture they were brought up in. Then, it's not so hard...

True. And logic doesnt seem to factor into their beliefs. Ive managed to meld both of my ancestrial cultures. Ive gone to highland festivals wearing both Scottish and Cherokee regalia.

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merlinfire

· #32 · Jan 15, 2014

Causing people harm for any reason other than as a defense against their own aggression against you is wrong.

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ninjasurvivor

· #33 · Jan 15, 2014

A black woman saving a white racist from other white anti-racists? At a point the skin color of the folks invovled doesn't matter anymore. It just becomes people of conflicting ideologies resorting to violence or trying to protect against it.

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DrReco

Discussion Starter · #34 · Jan 15, 2014

tricky48 said:
Dr Reco said that he hoped that the illusion of race would disappear, I go one step in the opposite direction and say that I hope we will stop villianizing the acceptance of differences between race and culture, and embrace them and value them. The differences are what makes it great. I don't want a One People, all looking alike and of the same mind. How boring would that be? Instead, it should be the goal of our race hating/exploiting nation to accept and celebrate that there are differences in both culture and race. Not divisive differences, but additive ones, that together, make us all better.

I celebrate and admire cultures, "races", and even physical differences amongst our people. As an example, I'm a Japanophile and am greatly interested in many things about Japan's history and culture. I happen to love auburn hair and red freckles on women, etc...

Yes, differences can be wonderful. What is not so wonderful is our false racial paradigm of judging others' worth solely based on physical characteristics. This is an illusion and a growing pain of a young species in my opinion.

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Catfish11

· #35 · Jan 15, 2014

DrReco said:
In a world of so much bad news, it is important to also hear about the good.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...inst-hate_n_4571211.html?utm_hp_ref=good-news

I could not be more eloquent than Paul Kearney, who wrote these appropriately beautiful words in the comments of the hyperlinked story:

"I am truly touched by these, and hope that more of us stand up, to the extremists, who are trying to hijack our world. We see so much extreme actions, and hear hate filled rhetoric, ad nauseum, good men must do something, or freedom means nothing."

(From the story)
"7. This teen showed what happens when you respect even those who hate you.

In June of 1996 in Ann Arbor, a fairly liberal town in southeastern Michigan, the Ku Klux Klan scheduled a rally at city hall. When locals heard the news, 300 protestors, including Keshia Thomas, then 18 years old, turned up to to counter the KKK. A mere 17 Klansmen participated in the rally, grossly outnumbered by the protestors. When one white supremacist got mixed in with the counter-demonstration, the event turned violent, with the KKK member falling to the ground getting kicked and beaten with sticks.

People shouted "Kill the Nazi," and it could have turned deadly if not for Thomas, who jumped on top of the man to protect him from the mob's blows. She very well could have saved the life of a man who was there to actively promote hate of people like her -- a man who might not have cared whether she herself lived or died."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...inst-hate_n_4571211.html?utm_hp_ref=good-news

Maybe just me but the picture looks fake

mutter87

· #36 · Jan 15, 2014

DrReco said:
Of course it will! There are much bigger fights to be fought. Mankind, as we know it, is relatively young. Look at our advancements just in the last 200 years vs the previous 2000...

Phony illusions like race are really small potatoes to some of the other information wars currently being waged.

How is race an illusion? And "mankind" is not young. African tribes can be traced back 100,000 years, certain Asian tribes 80,000 years. It is only the Adamite tribes (Arabs/hebrews(whites) ) that can only be traced back a couple of thousand, With Adamites going back in the ball park of at the most just shy of 7,000 years and Arabs being not long after that.

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NectarNook

· #37 · Jan 15, 2014

Wise Owl said:
Unconstitutional law? Sorry Nectar, but marriage laws are under the jurisdiction of the states. Not every aspect of everyday life is under Federal jurisdiction. Thats why we have a Bill of Rights, to limit the Federal Govt.

I argue that the 9th amendment protects against state infringement of certain unenumerated rights, such as the ability for consenting adults to marry a person of their choosing.

The last of the anti-miscegenation laws were finally repealed in 2000. By your argument, making interracial marriage unlawful was also well within the jurisdiction of the states. Yet... those laws were ruled unconstitutional in 1967 by the US Supreme Court. How is bigotry against people of color any different than bigotry against people who are attracted to their own sex?

Another bigot out of the closet, eh?

Welcome to the wrong side of history.

I applaud anyone who is willing to fight for the freedom of others to enjoy the same freedoms they themselves enjoy. Anything less is repugnant.

tricky48

· #38 · Jan 15, 2014

DrReco said:
I celebrate and admire cultures, "races", and even physical differences amongst our people. As an example, I'm a Japanophile and am greatly interested in many things about Japan's history and culture. I happen to love auburn hair and red freckles on women, etc...

Yes, differences can be wonderful. What is not so wonderful is our false racial paradigm of judging others' worth solely based on physical characteristics. This is an illusion and a growing pain of a young species in my opinion.

I think we are on the same page with that one... the post of mine that you quoted... last paragraph I said

I still feel that the individual should never be judged for the color of his/her skin when it comes to the character and value of that individual, just that it should not be ignored when it comes to the understanding of that individual, both by him/her self and everyone else, as a whole.

My thoughts on this are in my response to Wise Owl :

Instead, even the people who really hate, not just surface hate where one makes fun of those that are different than them, but really deep down hatred, it's really the culture that poses the biggest threat to their worldview. Culture can be learned. Looks can be overcome. By perpetuating the Race card at every corner, though, it will never be any different.

If we keep harping on Race it keeps the attention away from the things that are IMO, the real issue.

For example... take a person from any race, and raise them in a poor, downtrodden, "lower" class family, or a "middle" class working family, or an affluent "elite" family. The individual will reflect his upbringing.

I am not trying to take away from the necessity of looking past color or physical characteristics, just saying that we have been going about it wrong by denying that there is a difference. Our own eyes can see the difference, our ears can hear it. Superiority of any one of those differences of races or cultures is subjective and not relevant. Unfortunately, by punishing the mere acknowledgement of a difference, the symptom, we strangle any attempt at rooting out the cause of the symptoms, clan/tribe/nation/culture exclusivity... which is found in the home, church, workplace, etc., not the DNA.

That woman in the OP is a prime example. Her upbringing at some point implanted the need to protect those who are helpless, no matter their deserving-ness.

Living in the South, I have seen ample evidence of hatred from both sides, and it is almost always learned behavior.

And I am not saying that there is any excuse for the wrongs perpetrated by any one "race" or "culture" against the other, whether White vs Black, Black vs White, Egyptian vs Hebrew, Serbian vs Muslim vs Croat, Japanese vs Chinese, etc., etc. etc., ad infinium.

The wrongs seen against your own from another can be the learning catalyst, as well as being taught by some authority figure.

I guess my point with all of this is that to honestly solve the problem, there must be an honest approach. Not every crime or injustice done to one race by another is racially motivated. By insinuating that it is, our PC-ness has ruined any possible discourse that can lead to a true coexistence.

Wise Owl's observation just reinforced that for me... people refusing to date/marry another race, but yet seeing past that when it comes to friendship, doesn't scream racist to me. A racist would react more like that guy in pottery's video, he could not bear to be touched by that Rev. That would be an example of racism. So would allowing a free pass for otherwise unacceptable behavior because of shared skin color.

Making comments, even including racial slurs, about a common sight from a particular race, ie. excessively baggy pants or listening to country, is more of a cultural issue that has been confused with race. Once a person of different racial makeup is encountered that does not exhibit that same cultural upbringing, a spark is usually set off.

Anyway, I hope that that clears up my point, because I think it was taken wrongly. It is just a perspective that I have gained after growing up as a minority in the South (yes I am White but my state and the city I grew up in is majority Black) and then living in other areas and encountering many different races and cultures within those classifications of race. To a person, their region, and surrounding culture defined what they felt about others. A person who was the only Black person in a rural town that grew up with persecution from a bunch of abusive, intolerant, fools, would not see things the same way as one who similarly grew up in a town that treated him no differently from anyone else. I have personally met examples of both, and the difference is stark. The DNA didn't have anything to do with it.

Anyway, I think I am beating a dead horse... sorry for the long-winded responses, and I did not mean to derail. OP, it is nice to see examples of truly heart-felt people going against the grain. Thank you for posting it.

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tricky48

· #39 · Jan 15, 2014

NectarNook said:
I argue that the 9th amendment protects against state infringement of certain unenumerated rights, such as the ability for consenting adults to marry a person of their choosing.

The last of the anti-miscegenation laws were finally repealed in 2000. By your argument, making interracial marriage unlawful was also well within the jurisdiction of the states. Yet... those laws were ruled unconstitutional in 1967 by the US Supreme Court. How is bigotry against people of color any different than bigotry against people who are attracted to their own sex?

Another bigot out of the closet, eh?

Welcome to the wrong side of history.

I applaud anyone who is willing to fight for the freedom of others to enjoy the same freedoms they themselves enjoy. Anything less is repugnant.

There really is a line that must be drawn to signify where the Federal Government's power has to stop, if we are to hold true to the Constitution. I don't see where Wise Owl was even advocating the thinking that barred the marriages in question, just that it was not, IHO, the place of the Feds to overrule. Of, course, I cannot speak for WO, just an observation.

DrReco

Discussion Starter · #40 · Jan 15, 2014

mutter87 said:
How is race an illusion? And "mankind" is not young. African tribes can be traced back 100,000 years, certain Asian tribes 80,000 years. It is only the Adamite tribes (Arabs/hebrews(whites) ) that can only be traced back a couple of thousand, With Adamites going back in the ball park of at the most just shy of 7,000 years and Arabs being not long after that.

Earth is believed to be around 4.5 billion years old. Our current knowledge on hominids is about several million years.

Even taking into account your mention of 100,000 years, mankind, just in comparison to our own earth, is incredibly young...There are living trees (and God knows what else) older than **** sapiens.

How about the relative youth of our American experiment which is only 237 years old... Rome lasted a thousand years by comparison.

And then there is the technological leaps and bounds we have made over the last couple hundred years that may debatably be greater than all the technological advances of the previous couple thousand.

The term race as we use it today came into existence around the 17th century. Scientifically the concept is almost meaningless except as a way to try to categorize phenotypic differences. Of course the advent of eugenics, in the late 1800's, which was furthered by Nazi Germany, contributed to many current views on race as far as essentialism is concerned.

So observable phenotypic differences are real in the sense of blue or brown eyes. Beyond the superficial, race is not even really scientifically considered as a classification for humans (more of a social construct than a biological one).

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