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Alpha Woof
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354 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I happened to be shooting with some friends today and had my Mossberg 835 with me.... I forgot to replace the Turkey choke on it but was like "Meh, screw it...", so I loaded it up with my 6 rounds and took a stab at a man-sized target about 75-85 yards away. Now I know what you're probably thinking, right? : That I probably didn't hit jack-squat, but the result was pretty surprising! As it turns out I completely peppered the target and there was almost NO surface area that had NOT been painted with little 1200 FPS BB's. I really expected to see only a few hits but in fact I believe most of the projectiles hit the target. Now I'll be the first to admit that I'm pretty new to Shotguns, but this got me to thinking: In a defensive situation, wouldn't Bird-shot be more effective than Slugs? And if that's true, would a Turkey choke perhaps be a better all-around setup for short to medium range defense rather than a tradition-wider-spread-choke? I'm torn, and am hoping some of you have some experience with these varying choke setups. I mean, I realize that only ONE of those BB's hitting a target would really ruin someone's day, but I never imagined being able to semi-accurately lay fire down on a target with a shotty at 75-85 yards until today, and now it's got me thinking that a 12GA is significantly more all-around-viable than I thought it was before for a SHTF situation. It's certainly cheaper to shoot/stockpile ammo for than most other weapons as well. Thoughts?
 

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In a defensive situation, wouldn't Bird-shot be more effective than Slugs?
More effective? Never. A tighter pattern with small shot would be preferred if you had to use it in defense... but it would never be as effective as either slugs or buckshot at any range. Penetration is still the issue with using small shot... the smaller you go the less you get. That would probably be increased with a tighter pattern to some degree but it still wouldn't be on par with slug and buck.

Another problem encountered with this is that the 1200 fps is the muzzle velocity, and the light shot won't maintain that velocity for very long. At 75 yards I wouldn't be surprised to see the velocity drop to the 500 fps range... which would barely penetrate clothing and skin.
 

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Alpha Woof
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354 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
go watch the Mythbusters episode where they show a pizza box stopping a shotgun blast and and you will quickly forget that notion.
I didn't find the episode, but I did find the results and here's what they had to say:

3 pizza boxes in a warming bag are bulletproof.

PLAUSIBLE

Based on a story that a pizza delivery boy survived a shotgun blast by holding his warming bag in front of him, Adam and Jamie first fired birdshot at a warming bag containing three pizzas, and it stopped the all but six of the pellets. They then used buckshot which easily passed through the pizzas. To see how far the buckshot would penetrate, 5 warming bags, each containing 3 pizza boxes, were placed in front of the ballistics gel dummy. Buckshot was fired at it, and the shot made it all the way to pizza 14.
 

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Adventurer
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19,333 Posts
only way bb shot will kill someone is if you shoot em en the abdoman at very close range it

most bird shot like 7-8 shot would not work you would need bb-5 cshot and close range
 

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+Adcock
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3,102 Posts
If you load up #4's or bigger and you plan on shooting less than 30' in a hallway or such and you are capable of quick followup shots AND you are worried about over penetration then you will be fine against most targets.

Where you will have issues is with people is heavy clothing, if they have cover or if they are particularly determined/drugged up. Even then, if you have a good pump gun, they can be as determined as they want, it won't help them.

Steel shot also penetrates better than lead at close range. It does not seem like it would but we found this to be true on geese at least. Lead deforms and gets caught up on the feathers with steel going right through with no issues. Steel is not good for longer ranges however up close it needs a better look.
 

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I used a rifle indoors in Iraq, and prefer it over a shotgun. I considered getting a shotgun, but it has too many drawbacks associated with it. High recoil, heavy weapon, heavy ammo, low ammo capacity. The fight may go outside, so if I hear a noise in the night, my long gun is an M4gery. The rifle may have less "stopping power" than a shotgun, but I never saw anyone in my unit that had trouble putting people down with one.

I have been over and over it with myself, and I cannot justify getting a shotgun for any reason. I am tall and fairly light, so I won't be carrying 2 long guns if I have to bug out anyways, and as I mentioned, I'd prefer a rifle or handgun for home defense.

I am not trying to knock shotguns, they are great weapons, and have a lot going for them, but they are not for me. I do shoot my friend's shotguns, just to stay in practice with the weapon, but I don't personally care to own one.
 

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Opinionated old fart.
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8,046 Posts
Covering a paper target with tiny holes is different from stopping an attacker. Paper is pretty easy to put holes into. Lungs and hearts are a bit tougher and need heavier projectiles/bullets/shot. Bird shot simply does not have the mass to penetrate to human organs (it wasn't designed to).

"...only ONE of those BB's hitting a target would really ruin someone's day..." Ever get shot with a BB gun? Sure it hurt, but could you fight afterward? Same thing, the only way to SURELY stop someone is to stop him "permanently".

1. Bird shot is for birds.
2. Buck shot is for deer.
3. Fighting Guns are for humans.
 

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Adventurer
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19,333 Posts
I used a rifle indoors in Iraq, and prefer it over a shotgun. I considered getting a shotgun, but it has too many drawbacks associated with it. High recoil, heavy weapon, heavy ammo, low ammo capacity. The fight may go outside, so if I hear a noise in the night, my long gun is an M4gery. The rifle may have less "stopping power" than a shotgun, but I never saw anyone in my unit that had trouble putting people down with one.

I have been over and over it with myself, and I cannot justify getting a shotgun for any reason. I am tall and fairly light, so I won't be carrying 2 long guns if I have to bug out anyways, and as I mentioned, I'd prefer a rifle or handgun for home defense.

I am not trying to knock shotguns, they are great weapons, and have a lot going for them, but they are not for me. I do shoot my friend's shotguns, just to stay in practice with the weapon, but I don't personally care to own one.
zombies man you need a shotgun for zombies

 

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Old Soldier
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5,072 Posts
I used a rifle indoors in Iraq, and prefer it over a shotgun. I considered getting a shotgun, but it has too many drawbacks associated with it. High recoil, heavy weapon, heavy ammo, low ammo capacity. The fight may go outside, so if I hear a noise in the night, my long gun is an M4gery. The rifle may have less "stopping power" than a shotgun, but I never saw anyone in my unit that had trouble putting people down with one.

I have been over and over it with myself, and I cannot justify getting a shotgun for any reason. I am tall and fairly light, so I won't be carrying 2 long guns if I have to bug out anyways, and as I mentioned, I'd prefer a rifle or handgun for home defense.

I am not trying to knock shotguns, they are great weapons, and have a lot going for them, but they are not for me. I do shoot my friend's shotguns, just to stay in practice with the weapon, but I don't personally care to own one.
Thank you for serving our country.
 

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Banned
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3,508 Posts
If you want to screw up a good shotgun, and perhaps yourself in the process, shoot cut shotgun shells through them. Here is a chart showing the diameter of shotgun chokes at the muzzle.



Now take the gauge and choke size of your choice and measure the O.D. of a shotgun shell of the same gauge, and subtract the difference. That is what you are pushing through the choke, or muzzle of your shotgun. This is one of the most stupid, dangerous things I've seen done regardless of how many have gotten away with it.

Ever notice how the people who demonstrate doing these things aren't exactly the same people you would connect to a six figure job at Boeing or IBM? Bill T.
 

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Banned
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6,146 Posts
75 yards is long way for a shotgun ( well not slugs)

that said since most people really hate to be shot with anything I bet it would keep 90% of the mutant zombie bikers consider going someplace else

once you get to 5 - 7 yards I'd suspect the hombre's that will take a load and keep coming are few and far between

Is buck shot better - sure - is something along the lines of heavy bird shot good enough seems to me yes


remember it's a shotgun on a plazmum death ray, then again an AR15 is just a rifle
 
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