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Old 02-16-2010, 02:47 PM
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I have read over a few dozen BOB discussions on various sites and find myself scratching my head.

First, aside from the localized emergencies like a tornado, hurricane, flood, or earthquake, why would anyone leave their home at all? Each of those disasters are local. Toss some crap in your Samsonite, chuck that and the Wii in the car and head for grandma's place for a few days. Any calamity larger and more widespread, one that is beyond the scope of a short trip down well-paved roads, is not going to be solved by a Bug-out-bag.

Those that are touting their fantasies of "Heading for the hills" need to think not in terms of BOBs but in terms of storage containers on the scale of those that are moved by a crane.

Trust me, you can't carry enough on your back to disappear into the woods and live off the land. Period. And if you are forced to flee your home by the approaching 'zombie hordes', anything left behind will be gone. So reality dictates that we are talking more about Bug-Out-Sport-Utility-Vehicles or BOSUVs... likely with roof racks and trailers.

So, I guess many people have very different ideas what purpose their personal BOB is going to provide. There seems to be an enormous overlap between EDC and BOB.

I have seen the "Shelter Bags" with everything from hand sanitizer and laptops, to crayons and coloring books. Then we have the "Day at the Beach + Extra Cell Phone Battery" ones. And of course the "Zombie Apocalypse" variety complete with Ninja costume, grapnel hooks, laser-scoped machineguns, nunchucks, and holy water.

Now, has anyone actually tried to carry their bag-of-goodies 10-miles? How about on uneven surfaces? How about while circling around FEMA checkpoints? Or for those who also have to carry a bucket full of Risperdal, while belly-crawling passed zombies?

It is strange that everyone suggests constant practice with a handgun, which will be of very limited use, but there is no consensus about constant practice in parts of survival that actually would matter. Is it weird that someone may have spent time practicing with a pistol, but has never spent time building a fire, or water purifier out of a materials around their home, or actually hoisted a backpack?

Now, I am an avid backpacker and I suggest to anyone that has not strapped a stone to their back and disappeared into the backcountry of someplace like Glacier National Park for a week, well I suggest hold off on the purchase of another Mall-Ninja weapon and spend that money on a hiking trip. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Less Stroud, Survivorman, your way through the wilderness. I am saying buy a nice set of boots, pack, sleeping bag, tent, cookstove, raingear, flask of Macallan single malt Scotch and head in for some outdoor time with friends and family.

Besides the cathartic enjoyment of the trip, what you will learn from planning and conducting a backpacking trip will teach you more about the reality of survival than lifetimes spent reading posts on the internet.

Even loaded down with a few thousand dollars worth of state-of-the-art backcountry gear, wearing the finest space-age textiles and sipping your Scotch from a lexan cup will provide a glimpse at the reality of living without Starbucks for a few weeks.

My personal feeling is that those that spend their time pouring over Mossberg vs. Remington debates and purchasing every piece of black tactical web gear that they can afford are more interested in living out a Nintendo fantasy than actually dealing with cushioning the blow from the inevitable worldwide economic and environmental hiccups that we face from time to time.

Well, its starting to get dark, so I have to get back to cleaning the cordite out of the barrel stabilizer on the Rolling Thunder just n case the zombies attack tonight

Enjoy
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:57 PM
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Nice.. I am in the situation of BOSUVWT (with trailer) but I dont see it so much as a bug out but a relocation. I am more worried about natural disasters and local uprising then I am about another happening of Swayze and red dawn. I will be making sure whether an earthquake or a statewide riot that I take care of mine.. good luck to all of you guys with yours
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:10 PM
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The point is GET OUT AND DO!
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan_RN View Post
I have read over a few dozen BOB discussions on various sites and find myself scratching my head.

First, aside from the localized emergencies like a tornado, hurricane, flood, or earthquake, why would anyone leave their home at all? Each of those disasters are local. Toss some crap in your Samsonite, chuck that and the Wii in the car and head for grandma's place for a few days. Any calamity larger and more widespread, one that is beyond the scope of a short trip down well-paved roads, is not going to be solved by a Bug-out-bag.
A Bug Out Bag is supposed to hold you over until you make it to your Bug Out Location. For some people that isn't where they live day to day.

It can also be used as short term supplies to hold you over until it is safe to head home again (One to two weeks max).

The final scenario is that it will help you begin anew if your home/stores/preps are destroyed and you MUST move on.

"Living off" a bugout bag for periods longer than a month is doable but difficult. A year or longer is possible but not probable for most folks. Even harder if you have a family.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan_RN View Post
I have read over a few dozen BOB discussions on various sites and find myself scratching my head.

First, aside from the localized emergencies like a tornado, hurricane, flood, or earthquake, why would anyone leave their home at all? Each of those disasters are local. Toss some crap in your Samsonite, chuck that and the Wii in the car and head for grandma's place for a few days. Any calamity larger and more widespread, one that is beyond the scope of a short trip down well-paved roads, is not going to be solved by a Bug-out-bag.

Those that are touting their fantasies of "Heading for the hills" need to think not in terms of BOBs but in terms of storage containers on the scale of those that are moved by a crane.

Trust me, you can't carry enough on your back to disappear into the woods and live off the land. Period. And if you are forced to flee your home by the approaching 'zombie hordes', anything left behind will be gone. So reality dictates that we are talking more about Bug-Out-Sport-Utility-Vehicles or BOSUVs... likely with roof racks and trailers.

So, I guess many people have very different ideas what purpose their personal BOB is going to provide. There seems to be an enormous overlap between EDC and BOB.

I have seen the "Shelter Bags" with everything from hand sanitizer and laptops, to crayons and coloring books. Then we have the "Day at the Beach + Extra Cell Phone Battery" ones. And of course the "Zombie Apocalypse" variety complete with Ninja costume, grapnel hooks, laser-scoped machineguns, nunchucks, and holy water.

Now, has anyone actually tried to carry their bag-of-goodies 10-miles? How about on uneven surfaces? How about while circling around FEMA checkpoints? Or for those who also have to carry a bucket full of Risperdal, while belly-crawling passed zombies?

It is strange that everyone suggests constant practice with a handgun, which will be of very limited use, but there is no consensus about constant practice in parts of survival that actually would matter. Is it weird that someone may have spent time practicing with a pistol, but has never spent time building a fire, or water purifier out of a materials around their home, or actually hoisted a backpack?

Now, I am an avid backpacker and I suggest to anyone that has not strapped a stone to their back and disappeared into the backcountry of someplace like Glacier National Park for a week, well I suggest hold off on the purchase of another Mall-Ninja weapon and spend that money on a hiking trip. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Less Stroud, Survivorman, your way through the wilderness. I am saying buy a nice set of boots, pack, sleeping bag, tent, cookstove, raingear, flask of Macallan single malt Scotch and head in for some outdoor time with friends and family.

Besides the cathartic enjoyment of the trip, what you will learn from planning and conducting a backpacking trip will teach you more about the reality of survival than lifetimes spent reading posts on the internet.

Even loaded down with a few thousand dollars worth of state-of-the-art backcountry gear, wearing the finest space-age textiles and sipping your Scotch from a lexan cup will provide a glimpse at the reality of living without Starbucks for a few weeks.

My personal feeling is that those that spend their time pouring over Mossberg vs. Remington debates and purchasing every piece of black tactical web gear that they can afford are more interested in living out a Nintendo fantasy than actually dealing with cushioning the blow from the inevitable worldwide economic and environmental hiccups that we face from time to time.

Well, its starting to get dark, so I have to get back to cleaning the cordite out of the barrel stabilizer on the Rolling Thunder just n case the zombies attack tonight

Enjoy
2 posts in and you emasculate every well-intentioned person on this forum by painting them all as "internet-survivalists"...... way to go...

as you said... "enjoy"
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:17 PM
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Done to death..........
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:24 PM
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Well said......mostly
As an avid hiker, biker, and kayaker I can say it is possible to make it in the wilderness with nothing but the gear on your back, and the knowledge in your head. With that said I know that most of my SHTF preparations are for bugging in not out, but since I do spend so much of my time on the trail, I already own gear for bugging out all that is needed are a few added items to change my 85 liter pack from a long trail hiker to a BOB.
You are completely correct though, there is no amount of reading that will give anyone the needed knowledge to survive while bugging out. If people would like to learn I am happy to take people on hikes (lot safer with others than alone fighting off a bear for your black beans and rice sucks.....BTW I lost the fight and the bitch got my food and my cozy lol). Take a few weeks off from work and let's go hiking.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:48 PM
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Well MRN, my BOB is basically the old Boy Scouts survival kit on steroids. It is not designed to be thrown on my back and head for the hills for an extended bug out. It is designed to save my tooshie in the event my truck breaks down in the Sylvania Wilderness whilst geocaching, or my commute home from work in Troy takes a decidingly interesting twist with Zombie hordes clogging 696. Oh wait, they already do that

And thank you very much for your words of wisdom on going out on a nice backpacking trip to learn about it. No, I havent been to Glacier, but I have thrown my Jansport Alaska and done Isle Royale, the Smoky's and Colorado for exp.

My plans are 2-fold. Due to my proximity to Detroit, I fear that I couldnt GOOD before the zombie hordes do, hence I prepare to stay at my BOL as long as necessary/possible. If given the time and headstart, I plan to GOOD and head up north to family. And that, oh bane of medics everywhere, will require alot more luggage space then my trusty BOB and backpack.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:07 PM
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LMAO!

That's all I can say.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:10 PM
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Almost forgot I am in Western North Carolina if anyone seriously wants to go hiking. Don't worry I am a slow walker and normally only do between 7 and 11 miles a day. With lots of pictures in between lol
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenixdadeadhead View Post
Almost forgot I am in Western North Carolina if anyone seriously wants to go hiking. Don't worry I am a slow walker and normally only do between 7 and 11 miles a day. With lots of pictures in between lol
One of my trips was in the Nantahala NF. Nicely rugged terrain. What made it really interesting was having the trail disappear often and having to bushwhack to find it again. Nothing like camping next to a raging river for a little "music". The rivers here in Michigan are so darned serene they get drowned out by the skeeters
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Michigan_RN View Post
I have read over a few dozen BOB discussions on various sites and find myself scratching my head.

First, aside from the localized emergencies like a tornado, hurricane, flood, or earthquake, why would anyone leave their home at all?
From what I see, most of the people that talk about "bug out bags" have never faced a "real" disaster. But lets not group everyone together - I'am sure some of them have.

Personally, I do not subscribe to the "Bug Out Bag" train of thought. I have had to bug out / evacuate in the face of too many hurricanes, and like to think I know the difference between reality and myth.

Keep in mind, I keep my camping backpack ready to go. It usually has 2 - 3 days worth of food in it, and most of my camping stuff in it.

If anyone has ever evacuated in the face of a real disaster, then you know what its like. You just dont load up a "bag" - you load up the whole truck. I take my computer, my guns, family pictures that can never be replaced, clothes, pets, back up drives for the computer, important papers, titles, insurance papers,,,,,,,,,,. By the time I'am done, the extended part of my cab is full. Then off to the shelter my wife and I go.

Why did I leave my house? Because we had massive hurricanes heading towards us at the time. My house has 2 large - 100 feet tall oak trees right next to it. Inside the house is not where you want to be if one of those trees decides to uproot in 100+ mile per hour winds.

If you live next to a chemical plant or next to a nuclear power plant, then yes, you might want to keep a bug out bag handy. But even then, authorities will probably tell you to shelter in place. Depending on what was leaking from the chemical plant, the direction of the wind and how fast the traffic was moving, hundreds or even thousands of people could die in their cars trying to leave.

There is a chemical plant in southwest Louisiana that processes phosegene. If one of the 36 inch manways blew out of the reactor, half of Westlake, LA would die before the chemical plant could shut down. Or so I was told by an engineer around 1989. That was 20 years ago, so maybe they have safety checks in place now.

What was interesting to see, was when Houston, Texas evacuated for Hurricane Rita. People were sitting in their cars for hours, and only moving a couple of miles. People were running out of gas on the side of the road, sleeping in their cars, running up credit cards to stay in a hotel,,,,,. When my parents left Bridge City, Texas in the face of Rita, what normally took them 1.25 hours to drive, took 9 hours. But at least they had somewhere to go.

My opinion, survivalist are divided into 2 groups - those that have a realistic point of view and plan. And those that have an unrealistic point of view and plan.

Realistic point of view and plan - built on real life experiences, military training

Unrealistic point of view and plan - watched too many movies and tv shows
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:24 PM
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I have backpacked thousands of miles of the PCT, AT, NCT, among others... spending months at a time on the trail with minimal supplies is no problem with the proper gear and knowledge. My pack, shelter, and gear weighs less than 15 lbs, leaving room for 40+ lbs for food/fuel if necessary.

mine could be used to avoid:

natural disasters
terrorist attack fallout
quarantine
riots
gov't evacuation/shelter
unjust warrants
hit men
unforeseen circumstances...

(seriously though, these things happen to people all over the world every day... you are not immune.)
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:40 PM
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...my commute home from work in Troy takes a decidingly interesting twist with Zombie hordes clogging 696. Oh wait, they already do that
Right down the road from you

I think we all agree that the last place we want to be in a real disaster is anywhere near a government-run shelter" (no conspiracy here, just avoiding ineptitude on a government-sized scale). As a medical professional that has drilled in our local disaster response protocols, I can tell you that we will all be better able to fend for ourselves than we would be if we were to congregate where the less prepared will arrive to be serviced by the incompetent.

And I understand what you are saying about the proximity problem. (Not just the Starbucks-sipping Zombies on 696 rush-hour either) I have property up by Onekama (Manistee) If all hell really does break loose, by the time I fled the Detroit zombies, I imagine my fishing tackle, jet-ski, and favorite lawn chair will have already been pilfered out of my garage up there! So I see no real advantage to fleeing to a house that has more water toys and less Macallan Scotch than the one I am presently sitting in.

Granted, you are so right that the hordes that will pour out of Detroit, 24 hours after the McDonalds stop serving breakfasts, are a problem for anyone in Oakland County. But what apocalypse would really cause anyone to flee their home in such a short period of time as to not be able to pack more than a BOB?

When I am flying to Yosemite for a week-long hike I have more in my backpack than I have ever seen listed in anyone's BOB. As all of you that have taken a week long backpacking trip know, just the essentials for a week can be more than 50 lbs - and hiking packs don't have any mossberg roadblockers, and usually only one ninja suit!

This fanciful idea of living off the land for a year out of a backpack is absurd. It's easy for those brand of guys to type while sitting in their mother's basements eating pizza rolls, but it becomes obvious that they have never actually carried a bag into the woods.

I think I will just rearrange my backpacking gear in a more sequential order so I can toss more of it in to the Samsonite before heading a few miles down the road to where they still have HD TV and pizza delivery while I wait out any local disaster.

When a real honest BOB would be needed, I doubt it would be of much use.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:00 PM
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Our ancestors carved out lives with less technology & equipment than we can carry in a BOB.
Knowledge, training & practical application are the key to overcoming YOUR handicaps.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:06 PM
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i subscribe to the "get home bag".
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
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... aside from the localized emergencies like a tornado, hurricane, flood, or earthquake, why would anyone leave their home at all?
Nobody would. But I would clarify those natural disasters as more regional in in meaning.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:16 PM
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The more you know, the less you need.....me, I'm BI.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan_RN View Post
When I am flying to Yosemite for a week-long hike I have more in my backpack than I have ever seen listed in anyone's BOB. As all of you that have taken a week long backpacking trip know, just the essentials for a week can be more than 50 lbs - and hiking packs don't have any mossberg roadblockers, and usually only one ninja suit!

This fanciful idea of living off the land for a year out of a backpack is absurd. It's easy for those brand of guys to type while sitting in their mother's basements eating pizza rolls, but it becomes obvious that they have never actually carried a bag into the woods.
Millions of people throughout history have been able to 'live off the land' (I eat nothing but wild game... its a start). Its not recommended for the modern day desk-jockey who needs 50 lbs of gear for a week... but mankind is quite capable of surviving without modern amenities.

The one and only limit to backpack-survival is food. If your environment provides water and fuel, the gear weight to utilize it is constant (1 water purifier and 1 cooking pot). And naturally, you need only one shelter... another constant weight. Obviously one cannot live for a year on 40 lbs of food... but depending on terrain you could make it 500+ miles allowing you to restock, rendezvous with comrades, or find a permanent situation.

I will certainly not be staying in an apt. in a densely populated city.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:28 PM
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i subscribe to the "get home bag".
A buddy of mine, (who is also a member of this forum), keeps a medium alice pack in his truck at all times. Its filled with about 3 - 4 days worth of supplies. Just in case he has to walk home from work (or anywhere else), he has everything he needs.
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