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Old 11-10-2009, 09:37 AM
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Default Running a pellet stove from a battery back up.



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I don't want to run a generator all night just to run a pellet stove when we have a power outage this winter.

I have a Kill-A-Watt meter and my stove will draw just over 400 watts when the ignitor is on. it drops to about 100 watts when the ignitor is off and the circulation fan kicks into high speed.

I think I'll need an invertor capable of twice what the stove draws at its peak, but how big of a battery should I use ? I understand I should use a deep cycle marine battery. Should I run two batteries in parallel ?

I'm planning on mounting the batter(ies) and invertor to a plywood bracket on a small hand truck so they can be wheeled into the house as needed and then back out to the shed for recharging

I'm planning on recharging the battery during the day from the generator.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:54 AM
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I would like to see an answer for this also , because I love my pellet stove and don't not want to go to a conventional wood burner unless I would have to.

All battery answers I come up with are very expensive , I even checked into a Solar Generator but again to expensive.

I have as a backup for my stove a Honda EU1000i generator for when needed it will run over 15 hrs on less than 1 gallon of gas and is very quiet.

But I would like to have a better solution.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:14 AM
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I use three Wal-Mart marine batteries in parallel about 80 bucks each and a 2000 watt inverter about 300 for a good one. The batteries weigh about 100lb's each go be careful when lifting. I can run my pellet stove for 24 hours with no trouble! I have all this equipment in a 3/4inch plywood box. I also have a charger permanently hooked up to the unit. I can only charge the batteries on the 2 amp setting because of the small size of my charger. I had to get an automotive shop style 150 amp charger to get these batteries back up from discharge in a reasonable amount of time. After discharge I bring in the big charger and hit the batteries with 60 amps for 90 minutes and then top them off with the small charger, The small charger also monitors the charge level and keeps the batteries at full charge always. In the summer I use the unit to power my TV. It will power a big LCD TV and cable box for a least 30 hours. I never ran it down to empty. I find it amazing how long this unit will run equipment.


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Old 11-10-2009, 10:42 AM
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I appreciate your advice but 2000 watts sounds like over kill for my stove.

Isn't there some forumla I can plug my data into if I know how much power my stove will draw over time ? Should be just a question of mathamatics once I know how to figure it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:36 AM
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Default Stove on batterys and inverter

Well first of you need to buy a decent inverter not Chinese crap. Better quality inverters will be more efficient, produce cleaner power, load balance and last longer. The ignition and fan motor will probably run easily off a cheap invertor but the electronics that control your stove may not. Also you need to have an invertor that will cover your higher startup load(Surge-Ignition and fan motor spool up). A rule of thumb is often 5-6 times load for surge which you are describing ie. 500watts to start and 100 to run. Also make sure the inverter falls back to the running load. No sense in the invertor continuously producing unused AC and draining more from the batteries than necessary. Also I would get one with a built in charger and autoamtic transfer switch between battery and shore power.

You can see how to size your batteries here:http://majorpower.com/inverters/battery_sizing_faq.pdf
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by stevelutah View Post
Well first of you need to buy a decent inverter not Chinese crap. Better quality inverters will be more efficient, produce cleaner power, load balance and last longer.
Thanks for the link. That's pretty much what I was looking for.

So speaking of inverters, which one ?

Aren't most (if not all) made in China these days ?
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:03 PM
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http://www.theinverterstore.com/the-...nv1250-top-rgb

There's a link to a fairly decent inverter. I think 1000 watts is a good ratin' ifin ya only plan on doin' the stove. a 2000 watt might be a good idea in case ya need to run somethin' larger, but from a money aspect, I can understand not wantin' to spend the extra.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Sackett View Post
http://www.theinverterstore.com/the-...nv1250-top-rgb

There's a link to a fairly decent inverter. I think 1000 watts is a good ratin' ifin ya only plan on doin' the stove. a 2000 watt might be a good idea in case ya need to run somethin' larger, but from a money aspect, I can understand not wantin' to spend the extra.
That would do it.
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:59 PM
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This is a quick & dirty guestimate. I don't know anything about wood pellet stoves but this is an assumption of a continuous 100 watt draw. And I also assume the ignitor is on only for the initial start, so that is negligible use of the battery

100 watts = 8.33 [email protected] V
Plug in an extra 10% for inverter efficiency losses =9.13 amps [email protected]
Two-6 volt GC batteries wired in series would supply about 220 amps at 12V. but most people refrain from drawing more than 50% before recharging ( to ensure long battery cycle life) so that gives you about 110 [email protected] capacity

110 amps storage divided by 9.13 amp (draw rate) is right at 12 hours-enough for a nice ,long winters night. You could probably also get by with adding a fluorescent bulb or two to the system.

I thought some pellet stoves didn't need 110V, but would run off 12V battery backup. If that is the case, you definitely want to skip the inverter. Every time you convert electricity there is a conversion loss. Hope this helps and is not a butchering of the math.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:05 AM
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BTW, speaking of USA made inverters, I have an exeltech 1100 watt pure sine wave inverter. Made in Texas! They have some pretty serious construction. They are expensive, but they have an average 20 yr+ life according to the mfg. You can buy them off ebay if you are patient. I paid $350 for mine off ebay. New they are $550 plus

http://www.exeltech.com/xpproducts.htm
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radioman View Post
I use three Wal-Mart marine batteries in parallel about 80 bucks each and a 2000 watt inverter about 300 for a good one. The batteries weigh about 100lb's each go be careful when lifting. I can run my pellet stove for 24 hours with no trouble! I have all this equipment in a 3/4inch plywood box. I also have a charger permanently hooked up to the unit. I can only charge the batteries on the 2 amp setting because of the small size of my charger. I had to get an automotive shop style 150 amp charger to get these batteries back up from discharge in a reasonable amount of time. After discharge I bring in the big charger and hit the batteries with 60 amps for 90 minutes and then top them off with the small charger, The small charger also monitors the charge level and keeps the batteries at full charge always. In the summer I use the unit to power my TV. It will power a big LCD TV and cable box for a least 30 hours. I never ran it down to empty. I find it amazing how long this unit will run equipment.


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Hi RadioMan, I just read your post on a battery backup for pellet stove. What brand of pellet stove do you have and do you know if it would work on Harman P61A. I have the recommended ups installed now and when I unplug the ups the stove will go in shutdown mode which is standard for a Harman from what I have read. I would to have my stove keep running in the event of power outage for at least 12 hours. Any sugestions?

KWiest
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Old 04-13-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwiest View Post
Hi RadioMan, I just read your post on a battery backup for pellet stove. What brand of pellet stove do you have and do you know if it would work on Harman P61A. I have the recommended ups installed now and when I unplug the ups the stove will go in shutdown mode which is standard for a Harman from what I have read. I would to have my stove keep running in the event of power outage for at least 12 hours. Any sugestions?

KWiest
Hello there newbie!! You probably won't get a reply on this thread from Radioman, he hasn't posted in over 4 years, nor has this thread had a post in over 4 years.

To figure out if your UPS will run the pellet stove, you will need to know the surge wattage the stove pulls, the running wattage it pulls, and if it is needs pure-sine wave invertor power, or if stepped sine wave power will work. You will also need to know the power that the UPS can put out, maximum watts and running watts, and if it puts out pure-sine wave or stepped sine-wave.

Alot of cheaper UPSes put out stepped sine-wave power, as do alot of invertors. This isn't a problem for most equipment, but some doesn't like it. It sounds like you have tried running your pellet stove on UPS power and it shuts down. Either not enough power, or the stove needs the pure sine-wave power and the UPS is making stepped sine-wave power.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:21 PM
HB of CJ HB of CJ is offline
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Default Optional Hand Crank Watch Spring Powered Fan?

If memory serves, years ago Mom and Dad had a pellet stove that had a HUGE attachment hand crank spring works that powered the tiny separate blower fan. It also powered the hopper that fed the pellets.

Dad would take a large long breaking bar mechanics socket wrench and hand crank up that huge spring about 144 turns or maybe cranks. Too long ago. They lived in major league snow country and needed it.

That big spring would power the pellet stove for about 24 hours. Hope this helps kinda. I do not know what it cost and Dad shortly later got a large propane powered gen set. I think their snow record was over 39 inches in a 12 hour period.

HB of CJ (old coot)
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:43 AM
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Thanks for the reply, I'm definitly new to this forum. Harman stoves recommend 2 UPS units for use on there stoves,
1. Tripplite Internet750U, which is the one I have. output a/c waveform (ac Mode) is Sine Wave, output a/c waveform (d/c mode) is PMW Sinewave. Don't know what the PMW stands for. 750 va, 450 watts. My stove at startup uses around 250 watts than after its lit around 100/150 watts.
2. APC BE750G UPS this unit is about the same output as the Tripplite that uses Stepped Aproximation Sine Wave.
Harman Stoves says that both of these units will only promote proper shut down in the event of a power outage to clear smoke until fire is out.
If I were to use a UPS with Pure Sine Wave technology would this allow my stove to keep running or do I need to invest in some type of inverter. My plan is to wire 1 or 2 deep cycle batteries to this project for longer run time. Any answers that you may have will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ken Wiest
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:54 AM
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I checked my stove out and it takes about 250-300 watts to run it (2 fans and the feed auger).

It would take me a huge bank of batteries to power that unit for a whole day and a bigger yet solar array to re-charge the batteries if the power did not come back on.

In my case, a generator is the better bet short term. Long term, like SHTF? Go back to the fireplace and make a true stove insert for it FAST while I could still power a welder from an inverter.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:37 PM
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Ken, any of the higher-end (read EXPENSIVE) APC UPSes will output pure sine-wave power. That should run everything properly. Its a shame that the auger/fan on those uses so much power, as Pastornator is correct, it would take alot of solar/batteries to keep that running. A clock-work wind-up like HB talked about would be cool.

If we take Pastornator's numbers and figure worst case of 300 watts, that is 7200 watt/hours per 24 hour period of running the unit. If you get 8 hours of really good sun a day, you would need a minimum of about 1000 watts of solar (with losses) and 600 a/h of 12v battery storage to keep that running!!
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianWorf View Post
Ken, any of the higher-end (read EXPENSIVE) APC UPSes will output pure sine-wave power. That should run everything properly. Its a shame that the auger/fan on those uses so much power, as Pastornator is correct, it would take alot of solar/batteries to keep that running. A clock-work wind-up like HB talked about would be cool.

If we take Pastornator's numbers and figure worst case of 300 watts, that is 7200 watt/hours per 24 hour period of running the unit. If you get 8 hours of really good sun a day, you would need a minimum of about 1000 watts of solar (with losses) and 600 a/h of 12v battery storage to keep that running!!
Which is precisely why I have, for the moment, abandoned any hope of running my stove from battery/solar power.

I am looking at other pellet stoves that do not require any electricity, but they are so pricey that I may have to break out the welder this summer and see what happens.

I LIKE the pellet stove system as long as one can get pellets. It is clean, super efficient, and "green" in that one re-purposes otherwise wasted wood sawdust for home heating. I am looking into using a farmer-style grain bin to store bulk pellets by the tons. One of those full would last me about 3 years burning! Time enough to figure out the next step should it come to that, and there are plenty of regular old wood stoves around should life get tough and we need to go off-grid.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:04 PM
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To all those Pellet stove fans.

Have you considered Coal? A hopper Coal Stove runs the same as pellets, but coal costs far less per BTU.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:34 PM
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To all those Pellet stove fans.

Have you considered Coal? A hopper Coal Stove runs the same as pellets, but coal costs far less per BTU.
Coal is great where one can easily get it, but where I live it now takes some doing... In Kentucky? Absolutely... Piles of it everywhere!
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