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Bulletproofing vehicles bernie2616 Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 48 09-16-2010 11:54 PM

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Old 04-27-2009, 12:20 PM
nickster nickster is offline
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I am looking for a way to bulletproof home windows...

I have done some experiments with hollow points and FMJ penetration through such things as telephone books, 4x4 lumber and such. Hollow points in .38 and 9mm will not penetrate more than about 1.5" in a phone book but FMJ's will go right on through. I wish that I had kept notes on my results but it really doesn't matter because nothing blocked the FMJ's in 9mm and .223 On my last shot of that day, I stacked a 3/4" piece of plywood with a phone book a 4x4 and a 2x4 and shot right through the whole stack with a .223

I am thinking that 1/4" steel plate is probably the bare minimum for any kind of effectiveness but are there any alternatives? I looked at some pressure treated lumber that looked quite dense but I did not buy any for testing because it was rather expensive.

Suggestions?

Last edited by nickster; 04-27-2009 at 12:27 PM.. Reason: clarity
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:24 PM
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Somalia body armor. LOL!!
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:30 PM
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Sand. Sand bags, earthen berms, 5 gal. buckets full of sand. A .50BMG at 100 yards won't even make it through ONE 40Lb.sandbag. I have personally seen sandbag walls 3 sandbags deep, and 10 high fully stop a direct RPG hit.
On the other hand, I was doing some phone book testing of my own, and very surprised to see that at 50 yards a .22lr had no problem at all zipping right through the whole thing. Ours is about 3 inches thick, 2100 pages. 380 auto did the same thing. Moving to 7 yards, (so I could hit it) I shot it with 2 rounds of FMJ .25ACP. The bullets didn't deform much at all, and barely penetrated their full length into the phone book. We're talking about .5 to 1 inch into the phone book. Off subject-but based on that, I think the .22LR would be far deadlier than the .25ACP.........
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:32 PM
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normal steel and kevlar belted radial tires are said to rate the equivalent of a level 2A. I'd like to substantiate this, but I can't for the life of me remember where I heard this.
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:07 PM
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If you had to you could use old pillow cases half full of sand (i wouldnt fill it-a pillowcase is probably not strong enough) or better yet good sturdy burlap bags. If you've ever handled a sandbag you know how heavy they are, 60 to 100 lbs, so you need a very good sturdy bag whatever you use. Unless you live on a flood plain or a coastal area i'm thinking people might wonder what you want sand bags for.
Steel plate would work but heavy to move and store, and expensive too. If you have access to steel plate or boiler plate, you can make it more effective if it is sloped at about a 45 degree angle. Not only are bullets more likely to be deflected, you also increase the thickness of steel to be penetrated.

I wonder what the neighbors would think if they saw your bunker, perhaps camoflage if with bushes?
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:53 PM
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1/4" mild steel won't always stop .223 and rarely stops 7.62. you may have better luck with two layers spaced several inches apart.I think the sand bags vary with the type of soil and whether it is wet or dry. The ultimate sniper has some charts that lay out penetration in various media for different common calibers.
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:14 PM
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Don't laugh! I hear they can stop AP rounds!
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Originally Posted by ClovisMan View Post

Somalia body armor. LOL!!
This guy clearly didn't put on his Life Jacket.


I'm not too informed on ballistics as to what they can and can't do, but I found this a good read;


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Kelly

and this;
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot6.htm

Good luck!

Last edited by S510; 04-27-2009 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:22 PM
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here are some videos a friend and I did on 1/4 inch steel plate at 20 yds with several different calibers


it stopped all handgun calibers(that we tested anyhow) with ease, 9mm did the most damage and that was only slight deformation of the metal. .223 and 7.62x39 penetrated it with ease. we are going to try the test on .5in and 1in plate as well as hardened quarter inch plate
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Old 04-27-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickster View Post
I am looking for a way to bulletproof home windows...

I have done some experiments with hollow points and FMJ penetration through such things as telephone books, 4x4 lumber and such. Hollow points in .38 and 9mm will not penetrate more than about 1.5" in a phone book but FMJ's will go right on through. I wish that I had kept notes on my results but it really doesn't matter because nothing blocked the FMJ's in 9mm and .223 On my last shot of that day, I stacked a 3/4" piece of plywood with a phone book a 4x4 and a 2x4 and shot right through the whole stack with a .223

I am thinking that 1/4" steel plate is probably the bare minimum for any kind of effectiveness but are there any alternatives? I looked at some pressure treated lumber that looked quite dense but I did not buy any for testing because it was rather expensive.

Suggestions?
you got that right! Hollow points in 44 and 45 expand nicely while still keeping the bullet together long enough to penetrate nicely. That is the difference between small and big calibers. 223's and just bad ass. Also, that is what makes the Sierra 69gr Boat tail HP's so bad ass. They will penetrate about a foot into ballistics gel while literally coming apart completly doing maximum damage to vital organs ,etc.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:38 PM
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Go to a glass store get the thickest LEXAN ..Check that out and u can do multiple layers..
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwind View Post
normal steel and kevlar belted radial tires are said to rate the equivalent of a level 2A. I'd like to substantiate this, but I can't for the life of me remember where I heard this.
Maybe on Mythbusters? :P
The one where they're shooting at a truck tire to see if it will kill a motorcycle passenger in the vicinity of the blown tire.
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:52 PM
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My dad and I would shoot at a hardened steel plate that was 1 inch thick with a 30-06, at 300 yards. The plate would stop it, but if it was armor piercing it would go right through it about 90-95% of the time. Only a few got stuck. That plate was only 1 foot square and weighed a lot. I would be very hard pressed to recommend anything cobbled together for stopping people that really want to shoot you. I think that the lexan ideas would be the best or thin steel with a core of concrete. That way the concrete stops the round and the steel keeps the concrete together and inside.
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:29 PM
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http://theboxotruth.com
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:39 PM
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I find it hard to believe a 40 pound sand bag at 100 yards will stop a 50 BMG round.The 7.62 x51 nato round will penetrate at 200 yards 10 inches of dirt and will smash thru cement blocks at that distance.Also the 50 BMG has a effective range on lightly armored vehicles at 1800 yds.I have used both the 50 BMG and 7.62x51 nato rounds and know the damages these two rounds can cause.Getting back on the subject of windows you only have two choices here : either stay away from windows or sand bag the windows with a steel plate backing the sand bags.If you use the sand bags you might have to support your floor also to hold the weight.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:19 PM
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Another thing to consider is that no matter what you do to the windows, most residential construction won't stop a rifle round of any reasonable caliber.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harijan View Post
Maybe on Mythbusters? :P
The one where they're shooting at a truck tire to see if it will kill a motorcycle passenger in the vicinity of the blown tire.
naw, it was on a documentary on the north hollywood shootout. The thugs had custom bodyarmor including arm and leg protection made of plated sections of radial tires sewn into jackets
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhamey View Post
Another thing to consider is that no matter what you do to the windows, most residential construction won't stop a rifle round of any reasonable caliber.
AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!!!! WHAT HE SAID!!!!
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:48 PM
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Easy. www.blastgard.com
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:05 PM
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Appropriate plastic laminates will stop almost anything. They get really expensive though. 1/2" lexan is considered "bulletproof", but I doubt they are talking about high powered carbines. Your best bet will be to get underground.

good luck
Eric
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:44 PM
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Well, thanks for all the input everyone. I priced out a real level 3 bulletproof window, approx 34" x 48", single pane, non-opening... $1500 plus shipping... yikes! If you want an opening window, they go up to around $5000.

I think the most interesting solution could be the kevlar belted tires. Cut them into squares so they can be flattened out and make patch-work layers? Cutting them may be a problem though. However, I am kind of lazy, so maybe 1/4" steel plate shutters would be the best option for me... not perfect, but the best I can do with the least effort and expense. The cost would be less than $300.

Before I do anything, I think I will price out Lexan to see how much it would be. I could put a layer of real glass on the exterior to keep it from scratching. Maybe even bond the two together with some kind of two-sided sticky film. I betting that it is not much cheaper than $1500 though.
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