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Old 05-31-2009, 05:23 PM
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The MSS Carrier Bag has two straps for attaching the bag to a frame.
Image #P1010339 shows how I attached the bag to my Cabelas frame.

I didn't see an image in Enforcer's pics that shows how he attached the bag.
Enforcer did a thread on AR15.com where he did a step by step guide on
making the the rig he calls the Hellcat.

I don't use the Alice frame anymore because it never fit me. The kidney
strap is too high and gouges into my spine. The Cabelas frame is adjustable
for user size, thus providing support where required.

Maybe Enforcer might be willing to post his Hellcat assembly guide.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:16 PM
pitot1988 pitot1988 is offline
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How did you strap the MSS bag to the frame? With the bungee cord?
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:51 PM
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Look on the bottom of your Alice pack. There should be two webbed loops.
These should be spaced about the same distance apart as the mounting straps on the MSS carrier bag. Put the straps thru the loops then run the straps in front of the lower frame crossmember, then around the carrier and
back to the buckles.
The MSS carrier bag was not designed for the alice frame, so it won't be a very solid fit.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:23 AM
pitot1988 pitot1988 is offline
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So what did the MSS designed for?
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pitot1988 View Post
So what did the MSS designed for?
MSS is the US Military Modular Sleep System. It features 2 sleeping bags and 1 Gore tex bivy bag. One of the sleeping bags is the "patrol bag" with a rating to 32 degrees F and the other sleeping bag is the "intermediate bag" with a degree rating of 0 degrees. With proper clothing and both bags inside each other and inside the Gore tex bivy, a person is supposedly comfortable to -20. A very good system in my opinion, however it is a bit on the heavy side at 8lbs and a little bulky. I have used each bag seperately with the bivy and have been comfortable, I have never used the whole system together as it doesnt get that cold here in the south.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:30 PM
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So what kind of backpack was the MSS designed for?
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:16 PM
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The MSS Sleep System Carrier was designed as part of the Molle load
carrying system. The frame is plastic with molded in attachment points.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vondoozit View Post
The MSS Carrier Bag has two straps for attaching the bag to a frame.
Image #P1010339 shows how I attached the bag to my Cabelas frame.

I didn't see an image in Enforcer's pics that shows how he attached the bag.
Enforcer did a thread on AR15.com where he did a step by step guide on
making the the rig he calls the Hellcat.

I don't use the Alice frame anymore because it never fit me. The kidney
strap is too high and gouges into my spine. The Cabelas frame is adjustable
for user size, thus providing support where required.

Maybe Enforcer might be willing to post his Hellcat assembly guide.

Vondoozit

been out of pocket for awhile; thanks for letting me post this on your thread...last thing I want to do is hijack it. Hopefully this will answer all the questions.

NOTE: I'll have to break this up into four separate posts due to the limit on the number of images.


Assembling the ALLE Pack "Hellcat": a ALICE/MOLLE hybrid
By Enforcer




This is my version of the ALICE/MOLLE hybrid that I call the ALLE Pack or "Hellcat"; The ALICE/MOLLE systems are inexpensive; plentiful and solid platforms from which to build a hybrid ruck. Hopefully this post will help you assemble a Hellcat without any difficulty or maybe give you some additional ideas on how to develope your own hybrid.








Lets first start with all the components needed to assemble the Hellcat.

1. ALICE frame and medium ruck
2. one set MOLLE shoulder straps
3. one MOLLE moulded kidney belt
4. one MOLLE sleep system carrier




All of these items can be purchased for between $50-$70; even less if you shop around.



STEP 1: Inspecting and attaching medium ALICE ruck to the frame



Inspect the frame for cracks and loose rivets; rivets should be tight as well as the joined parts; repair or replace the frame if it is damaged.





Slip the medium ruck over the frame



Loosen the bottom attachment straps on the ruck and slip the strap through the triangular holes created by kidney brace at the bottom of the frame. DON"T OVER TIGHTEN at this point. You want some play so the ruck can expand properly while loading. Once your pack is loaded then these straps can be tightened.









STEP 2: Preparing the MOLLE Shoulder straps


First start by removing the short attachment strap at the top of the shoulder straps(they are attached to the load lifter straps); once both are removed set them aside; keep up with them because you will need them in a few minutes.





Next inspect and prepare the flat "yoke" portion of the MOLLE straps. There is a long wide strap tacked in the center with a large fastex buckle under neath it; separate the two if they have been fastened together. next you will notice two sets of attachment straps running parallel to the yoke. Leave the straps in the buckles of the top set(you will not need these) but loosen and remove the straps from the bottom set on both sides.








Next, fold the long center strap up so that it falls over the top of the shoulder straps.







Don't worry about the top set of attachment straps; we'll fold those over and tuck them later in the assembly






STEP 3: Attaching the MOLLE shoulder straps


Lay the pack down and place the prepped shoulder straps in this approximate position; keeping them centered with the long center strap protruding from the top



next take the short attachment straps that you had set aside and slip into the fastex buckle from the top . This the same buckle you just removed them from.





it should look like this when you are done


Last edited by Enforcer; 08-11-2009 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:44 AM
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Now you are going to slip the end of this strap under the top of the frame and thru the slot; then it will go thru the small d ring attachment on the alice ruck









Now slip it back thru the buckle and back thru again...snugging it down. It should look like this when you are finished. Repeat the process for the other shoulder strap.






Now we begin attaching the long center strap; pull it over the top of the frame and push or tuck the strap down between the frame and the ruck









Once you have the strap tucked, lay the pack down so the underside of the frame is exposed







This in my opinion is where the MOLLE shoulder straps really show their worth; you can now adjust for torso fit/length. Something you could never do with issue straps or after market enhancements. In the pics above I have shown you can have as much as 5 inches of adjustment; so realistically you can adjust for about 15-20 inches of torso length. For now we will go ahead and secure the straps and adjust for torso fit later.

Adjust the straps so that they are a couple of inches below the top of the frame; as illustrated in the last pic above. Next wrap the strap around the center cross members as shown in the next pics. You can wrap several times but once is enough, this will make torso fit a little easier.







Flip up the yoke of the MOLLE straps and feed the long strap thru the buckle and tighten securely.







Attach the side bottom strap as shown; looping it around the frame and threading thru the buckle; snug down; then do the other side; adjusting so it is centered. Fold and tuck the loose ends.









Separate the lower portion of the shoulder straps using the quick release mechanism (be carefull at this point; IMO the quick release is the weakest link in the MOLLE system and can be broken if forced open). Once released take the loop end and feed thru the round hole on the bottom of the frame; feed from outside to inside. Slip the QR end thru the loop and tighten.








Reattach the QR end back to the shoulder straps and you are done with attaching the MOLLE straps
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:52 AM
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STEP 4: Attaching the MOLLE kidney belt


First, place the kidney pad as shown to ready it for attachment. THIS IS THE CORRECT POSITION. The hump should go down. Install this pad upside down and you'll kick the Hellcat to the curb like I almost did two years ago. I put it on upside down because it looked like it belonged that way. Nevermind that I could clearly see the MOLLE assembly instructions show the hump goes down. I paid for that bit of arrogance with two bleeding blisters the size of my hand on each side of my butt. Again "HUMP GOES DOWN".





next, flip it over to one side and feed the straps thru the metal slot and attach to the buckles; snug the straps down







Flip the belt back over and feed the straps thru the other side; attach to the buckles and snug down.







Do not tighten so hard that you deform the belt. There is going to be some play; but under load this has never been a problem. You are now finished attaching the MOLLE kidney belt.



STEP 5: Attaching the MOLLE sleep system carrier


We are now on the last leg to assembling the Hellcat; first thing to do is stuff a pillow into the ruck so as to give it some shape and offer some resistance while attaching the sleep system. You may want to give the carrier some bulk as well; but this step is optional.





after you have cinched the top of the ruck, lay it down so that you can see the bottom and the two lashing loops; these will be the primary points of attachment to the ruck.





next, disconnect the fastex QR buckles on the sleep carrier; remove the male end from the straps and set aside. You will also want to slide the elastic keepers off as well.









Next you'll slide the cinch straps out of all the their respective "strap loops"; three on each side untill your carrier looks like this; this is the top view of the carrier.





As a point of reference; the lashing loops of the ruck will set between the carrier handle and the rear top strap loops





Slide the cinch straps thru the rucks lashing loops and then thru the top rear strap loops of the carrier









The sleep system carrier is now attached to the bottom of the ruck; but it's not stable at this point. We now attach it to the frame by running both cinch straps up the back of the ruck and over the cross support of the frame









Once you are over the cross support bring the cinch straps down; threading them thru the slots at the bottom of the frame; feed them through the flat side and exit the channel side. Snug them down securely





the straps will now wrap around the bottom of the frame, ready to be threaded thru the second set of strap loops







Once you've threaded them; snug them up to the frame and thread the cinch straps thru the bottom front strap loops; reattach the male ends of the fastex buckles and slide the elastic keepers back on. I kept mine off.






Now your Hellcat is ready for business; you should have a pack that looks just like one of these







Torso fit is the next post and probably one of the most important.

Last edited by Enforcer; 08-11-2009 at 08:58 AM..
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:55 AM
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TORSO FIT


As promised here is a guide for proper torso fit and pack adjustment. Once you have familiarized your self with torso fit and adjustment guides you will find the Hellcat has ALL the modern adjustments that are common on todays commercial packs. First read these links to REI's backpack adjustment guides

Finding Your Torso and Hip Size

Adjusting the Fit


Points of reference for torso adjustment should be the notch ( C-7 ) at the top of the shoulder pads and the midpoint of the hip pad( line of iliac crest). Remember these are just references; but I believe they will get you in the right ball park.










Loosen the side and torso attachment straps...you don't have to remove them.....measure your torso length; move the shoulder straps up or down accordingly and retighten the attachment straps. EDIT I have another comment here and I have added a couple of more pics. You must also loosen the load lifters significantly for torso fit. I just recently fit my 10 yo (Webelo II) and his torso length was 14 inches. No surprise it worked fantastic. The bonus for him was we were able to use the second set of side attachment straps and the load sets higher for better balance. The beauty is this adjustment can be reset as he matures, giving him use of the pack well into his adulthood(the Hellcat will probably outlast him)













You should now be fitted for torso length. Readjust load lifters; sternum strap; hip belt and tweak lower adjustment on shoulder strap per the REI guide. The next two pics show the difference in height of shoulder straps and load lifter straps. The top pick is mine set at a torso length of 18 inches; the bottom pic is of my 10 yo's set at o torso length of 14 inches.







In case you didn't know these are the parts refered to in the REI article "adjusting the fit"


Load Lifters




Sternum strap




Shoulder strap adjustment




Stabilizer strap.... notice it is not on the kidney belt.... it's the strap I told you not to tighten until the ruck was loaded






Quick release... most of us will never use this other than for convenience during assembly/disassembly



Now you have it; all the tools for proper fit and load stabilization of your Hellcat.

Hopefully this wasn't too confusing; like any system not all of these may work for you. I have found this particular hybrid to be very forgiving and rock solid; but it's only as good as the person putting it together. Assemble it using the ALICE and MOLLE parts properly and the Hellcat should take you there and back.


Enforcer

Last edited by Enforcer; 08-11-2009 at 09:36 AM..
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:51 PM
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Enforcer, Will this set up work with the large ALICE pack? It does not have d rings at the top like the medium pack does.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:40 PM
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I've been under an ALICE pack since 1977. Took both a large & medium ALICE to Iraq last year. Left the MOLLE pack stuff home.

Both my ALICE packs have been modified extensively. I know them very well.


You can have an ALICE large or medium modified to mount nicely on a MOLLE II frame. Willie at General Jackson’s will add the mounting straps for $12.50. I had mine done a few weeks ago while I was at Ft Bragg.

Willie has been sewing on my ALICE packs since 1990. He is the best.

General Jackson's, Inc.
6207 Yadkin Rd.
Fayetteville, NC 28303

(910) 868-1806

http://www.genjax.com/index.htm


Willie works Tue to Sat. He arrives at 11:00 AM, takes lunch 1:00 -2:00 PM.

If you want a better frame for an ALICE get a MOLLE II frame and have the ALICE pack modified to fit it properly.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyattd5 View Post
Enforcer, Will this set up work with the large ALICE pack? It does not have d rings at the top like the medium pack does.
Yes it will. The frame still has the slots to keep the molle straps properly positioned. here are some pics of a large Hellcat.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:04 PM
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Enforcer,
Thanks so much for the Hellcat information.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vondoozit View Post
Enforcer,
Thanks so much for the Hellcat information.
you're welcome; I hope it is useful
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieb View Post
Finally a solution to the pitfall of the Alice system.--the frame.
Very nice! --and proven as well by your extensive trekking.--that's important.
Thanks so much for this post!!
X2 Nuff said. I'm going to get one of those ASAP!!!


Rifleman 336
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:34 AM
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Enforcer, good pice. I have been looking for an ALT to the ALICE frame for a while, Can you tell me the name of the "cabelas frame"? Thank again, Longslide7
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:41 AM
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Sorry forgot you might want to checkout
Tactical Tailor
ATTN: Ruck modifications
2916 107th St S
Lakewood, WA 98499

http://www.tacticaltailor.com/ruckmods.aspx
Just FYI Longslide7
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longslide7 View Post
Enforcer, good pice. I have been looking for an ALT to the ALICE frame for a while, Can you tell me the name of the "cabelas frame"? Thank again, Longslide7
The cabelas frame is made by Kelty. That being said I don't believe the Molle suspension will fit on the kelty frame. The shoulder straps will probably work; but I'm not sure about the kidney belt. Vondoozit might be able to shed some light on the retrofit to a kelty frame. It will be more cost effective to use the Hellcat mods to your existing alice frame. There has long been a misconception about the frame of the alice system and that was " it's a crappy frame and the source of the problems". The problem is not the frame but the suspension; and is easily addressed by using the Molle shoulder straps and kidney belt.

If you still feel the need for a frame that is an easy retrofit and will accept both alice and molle suspensions look at the Outdoor Products "Dragon fly" frame. This is the old "Coleman Peak" frame that was used by 82nd AB Rangers at fort Bragg. It had more flex and would survive the rigors of multiple jumps and still allow the use of issue alice gear. Here is the link.

http://www.outdoorproducts.com/prodd...aspx?sku=4141U

BTW, TT makes good kit; havn't felt the need lately to use their services due to the plethora of Molle attachments available for pack expansion

Last edited by Enforcer; 09-11-2009 at 02:06 PM..
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