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Old 01-31-2009, 09:20 AM
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Default Diversion Safes and REAL safes...



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I have three safes in my house.

The first one is a cheap stand up type safe. The whole thing is pretty light when empty and very thin in construction. Ive never had a gun in it or anything valuable.

I do have 7 sections of iron pipe inside it as well as a few sections of 2X4 lumber. The intent here is to make a would be thief think it was full of valuable guns.

It has a decent lock on it that does the job I want it to do. What I want it to do is convince a thief to take the whole safe as opposed to try to pry it open then and there. It is not a great lock, but would require at least a few minutes and some specialized tools to get around. These are minutes I'm betting a thief wont have.


The second one is a small fireproof type safe. It is heavy for its size, even when empty. I keep it filled with pennies mostly. Once filled, it weighs around 60 pounds and is very unwieldy.


Again the point here is to waste as much of a thief time as possible. The average thief spends less than a minute in a home and I want them to waste all 60 seconds taking something that is worthless.



My last safe isn't really a safe, at least in the sense most people have when they think of a safe.

My third safe is a KNAACK box. My "safe" has 16 cubic feet of storage space. It is light enough to be moved by two people when empty. It can be bolted to a floor easily but when filled with "valuables" it weighs so much that it would take 4 very strong men to move...

KNAACK boxes are made specifically to resist prying. The walls are very thick and sturdy.

KNAACK boxes are made to be left on a job site unattended for hours at a time, in full view of thieves and still not get broken into. There are documented cases of thieves having an entire weekend to break into a KNAACK box and not being able to pry it open.

I paid 300 dollars for my KNAACK box. A comparable gun safe would have cost at least 1000 dollars. A KNAACK box is generally more "invisible" than a big shiny heavy gun safe. Mine site under my TV. It doubles nicely as a TV stand... Ive had many people visit and not even notice it was there.



Not to say KNAACK is the only company that makes job boxes. Im sure there are others that make a great product as well.

I hope this post will give others good ideas about how to protect their valuables.


So do you have a safe? If so do you also have diversion safes? If no, why not?
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:54 AM
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cb123,

I'm looking to build a new home in about 4 or 5 years. I've already been looking at home designs and have several good ideas about "secret rooms." These rooms will be cleverly hidden in order to hide valuables etc. So that will be my first line of defense. I do like the idea of your first two safes. Sacrificial safes are a great idea, especially if you fake hide them in plain view in a closet. Something where they don't have to really hunt for it, but it looks like you've hidden it.

The only beef I have with a Knaack is that it isn't fire proof, but if you put it in a fireproof room (which I'm looking to build), it would be a great option.

By the way, here's what the entry into my outer secret room (on the interior of the secret room, I'll have a large hidden vault door to my fireproof room):
http://nichedoors.com/products.htm - or something similar.

I also have ideas about little gun stash storage areas around the house, whether it is the false kick plate on a set of stairs, a secret door in Waynes coating in the dining room, or a false back wall in a linen closet. In my current home, my air return hole has quite a large volume. I'm currently making a false wall in it for additional security storage.

Good post.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:55 AM
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The same idea behind me keeping two wallets in my pockets. If I get mugged, I give him the wallet full of useless fake paper.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:57 AM
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The same idea behind me keeping two wallets in my pockets. If I get mugged, I give him the wallet full of useless fake paper.
[email protected]! I think I'd move if I had to carry two wallets or at least exchange one wallet for a gun. No, I would move and carry the gun.
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:36 AM
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Decoy's... Love em... Decoy guns are a must...
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by TacomaJPP View Post
cb123,

I'm looking to build a new home in about 4 or 5 years. I've already been looking at home designs and have several good ideas about "secret rooms." These rooms will be cleverly hidden in order to hide valuables etc. So that will be my first line of defense. I do like the idea of your first two safes. Sacrificial safes are a great idea, especially if you fake hide them in plain view in a closet. Something where they don't have to really hunt for it, but it looks like you've hidden it.

The only beef I have with a Knaack is that it isn't fire proof, but if you put it in a fireproof room (which I'm looking to build), it would be a great option.

By the way, here's what the entry into my outer secret room (on the interior of the secret room, I'll have a large hidden vault door to my fireproof room):
http://nichedoors.com/products.htm - or something similar.

I also have ideas about little gun stash storage areas around the house, whether it is the false kick plate on a set of stairs, a secret door in Waynes coating in the dining room, or a false back wall in a linen closet. In my current home, my air return hole has quite a large volume. I'm currently making a false wall in it for additional security storage.

Good post.
TacomaJPP,


I built my house too long ago, but I like the idea of the Niche doors in your post.

Here is something to think about in your future construction plans.

A friend of mine used a similar idea on his. He added a neat feature during construction. The Niche type door is a vanity in his master bathroom. Behind it is his safe room. The walls of the safe room were build with 2x6 lumber and he had 5/8" rebar run through the frame on 4" centers, both vertical and horizontal. The rebar was tack welded together. He backed that up with 3/4" plywood on both sides of the wall under the sheetrock. The plywood was screwed down with 3" screws.

The final touch was a roll down door behind the vanity. The room is in the rafters above his garage. If you knew it was there, it would take forever to get into it.

It's only 8' x 8', but he stores his guns, jewelry, scotch and cigars in it. If he goes out of town there is room for other expensive electronics etc.

Just a thought

Roger
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SgtBooker44 View Post
TacomaJPP,


I built my house too long ago, but I like the idea of the Niche doors in your post.

Here is something to think about in your future construction plans.

A friend of mine used a similar idea on his. He added a neat feature during construction. The Niche type door is a vanity in his master bathroom. Behind it is his safe room. The walls of the safe room were build with 2x6 lumber and he had 5/8" rebar run through the frame on 4" centers, both vertical and horizontal. The rebar was tack welded together. He backed that up with 3/4" plywood on both sides of the wall under the sheetrock. The plywood was screwed down with 3" screws.

The final touch was a roll down door behind the vanity. The room is in the rafters above his garage. If you knew it was there, it would take forever to get into it.

It's only 8' x 8', but he stores his guns, jewelry, scotch and cigars in it. If he goes out of town there is room for other expensive electronics etc.

Just a thought

Roger
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Cool - thanks. My idea was to build a wall out from the steps going down into my basement and utilize the area underneath and behind the steps as a fairly large security room. Within that room, I want to have a door to the area under my outside front porch. This area would be fulled concrete walled, a vault door, tornado and fire proof and doubly safe since the entrance to it is from the outer secret room.
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Old 02-01-2009, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaJPP View Post
[email protected]! I think I'd move if I had to carry two wallets or at least exchange one wallet for a gun. No, I would move and carry the gun.
Don't get me wrong, it's never happened to me as of yet but I'm just prepared in case it does. Delivering pizzas can make you a target.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:05 AM
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Don't get me wrong, it's never happened to me as of yet but I'm just prepared in case it does. Delivering pizzas can make you a target.
Ahhh....now that makes sense. Good call. I just thought you carried two all the time in general.
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Old 02-01-2009, 01:21 PM
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While I don't yet have the resources for any additional safes to be used as decoys, I keep decoy firearms that will be found by anyone doing a B&E at my house. Thing is, they're throwaways anyway, none of them function and cannot be made to function since parts are no longer available nor can they be manufactured without a great deal of machining but, they are for all intents and purposes, complete firearms. They're just throwaways.
My functional firearms are secreted in such a fashion that if you don't know where to look, you are not going to find them. I can get to them quickly and easily when necessary.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:53 PM
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You can buy broken safes really cheap. If it won't open no big deal if it's a decoy. Look on Craig's list. You may find a broken safe for the money it costs to haul it away. Remember , weld the door of a decoy shut and really screw with a burglar's head. Any cheap lock will work for the outside. Just make sure it's heavy and NOT bolted down. That may they can try to steal it and leave. When they finally cut it open after an hour or so of hard labor, a large dildo with a note thanking them for taking out your trash would be a nice gesture for the inside. Or maybe a photocopy of your backside!
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Old 08-30-2014, 09:38 PM
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My mom passed May 24th and I moved in her across to take care of my brother. Mom had been sick awhile and let house go into a little disrepair. I took down walls in the basement and living room bc of a leaky window and fixed everything. The windowseat is barely held together currently, though visibly secure. Pull this and you'll a small firebox with a important papers and $500 we'll need in an emergency.

My bedroom has a closet and it has an access panel to plumbing behind the bathroom (old house). I taped $250 to the back of the door in an envelope and hope they'll think that was the 'score'.

In the wall opposite the access panel (well actually in the ceiling of the basement) are my secondary weapons. I won't go into how but I can get to them in about 10 seconds.

Basically that's all I have here. My plan is to move back to my house in February so I didn't want to make it hard to sell or make it cost more than $1000 to revert.
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:18 PM
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As someone with a checkered past, and who cleaned up to work in the security and home security fields, let me make some suggestions.

Any cheap safe (be it a Stack On style gun safe or the sort of fire safe you get at Walmart) is only as good as its placement. If you fail to locate them in an area that makes tools hard to get at them with and you fail to secure them to a solid surface, well you are wasting your time. Basically, what I used to tell people I was doing assessments for is this:

1) If it was a snap for you to install, it will be a snap for them to remove. How long it took you to install, divided by five, is how long it takes someone who could care less about your house to remove it.

2) If it seems like a natural place to put a safe, the crooks will think so too.

3) Safes are meant to satisfy your own (and law maker's) sense of security. They are NOT meant to keep stuff safe.


Very few crooks are going to move a safe that weighs more than 30lbs. A TV is easier to get rid of and a guaranteed pay off compared to that. If they want what is in a safe, they will take tools from nearby (say, your own workshop), tools they brought with them, or they will just improvise something and smash into it. In general, safe decoys larger than a small cashbox (the kind you carry with you like a lunch box) are wasting time and space.

Why? Well, most of the time crooks will try to bust into it right there. Most of the time it takes mere moments to do so. When they find they wasted their effort on garbage, they know you did it on purpose. Know what that does? Makes em MAD. Now, instead of just stealing, they want revenge and trash the place. They will destroy everything they did not take the first time. I have seen houses that had this happen to them first hand.

The other thing is, if they find anything hard to get into, or bolted down, they will trash it. I have seen job site boxes get gasoline (from the job site they are at) poured into them (the boxes are not air tight) and set on fire because they could not be gotten into.

The best means is to keep stuff out of sight and the like. They do not have time to waste unless they are hard core crooks (like, surveillance of your place, know you have gone away on vacation, type hard core) they are going to do a cursory sweep and take the visible stuff that is easy to take off with and gives them a guaranteed pawn.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:44 AM
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I bought a second hotel wall safe from a vendor here. It was $50. It took about 20 minutes to install it in the wall of our master bedroom closet. Inside, there's about $250, an old Taurus with no firing pin, some collector coins in little display boxes worth about $30, and some costume jewelry. My wife has been instructed to open it if anyone breaks in and wants to know where the safe is.

The real safe is well hidden. It would take a very thorough search to find it. It's installed in a corner and bolted to walls and floor in a hidden room.

Az
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryboy123 View Post
I have three safes in my house.

The first one is a cheap stand up type safe. The whole thing is pretty light when empty and very thin in construction. Ive never had a gun in it or anything valuable.

I do have 7 sections of iron pipe inside it as well as a few sections of 2X4 lumber. The intent here is to make a would be thief think it was full of valuable guns.

It has a decent lock on it that does the job I want it to do. What I want it to do is convince a thief to take the whole safe as opposed to try to pry it open then and there. It is not a great lock, but would require at least a few minutes and some specialized tools to get around. These are minutes I'm betting a thief wont have.


The second one is a small fireproof type safe. It is heavy for its size, even when empty. I keep it filled with pennies mostly. Once filled, it weighs around 60 pounds and is very unwieldy.


Again the point here is to waste as much of a thief time as possible. The average thief spends less than a minute in a home and I want them to waste all 60 seconds taking something that is worthless.



My last safe isn't really a safe, at least in the sense most people have when they think of a safe.

My third safe is a KNAACK box. My "safe" has 16 cubic feet of storage space. It is light enough to be moved by two people when empty. It can be bolted to a floor easily but when filled with "valuables" it weighs so much that it would take 4 very strong men to move...

KNAACK boxes are made specifically to resist prying. The walls are very thick and sturdy.

KNAACK boxes are made to be left on a job site unattended for hours at a time, in full view of thieves and still not get broken into. There are documented cases of thieves having an entire weekend to break into a KNAACK box and not being able to pry it open.

I paid 300 dollars for my KNAACK box. A comparable gun safe would have cost at least 1000 dollars. A KNAACK box is generally more "invisible" than a big shiny heavy gun safe. Mine site under my TV. It doubles nicely as a TV stand... Ive had many people visit and not even notice it was there.



Not to say KNAACK is the only company that makes job boxes. Im sure there are others that make a great product as well.

I hope this post will give others good ideas about how to protect their valuables.


So do you have a safe? If so do you also have diversion safes? If no, why not?
OOOOOoooooooooh! I want one of these.

Actually, I want four.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:48 PM
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I think much of this depends on whether you own your own home or not, whether you have a lot of storage space or ability to do "special" things, and so on. If you're in an apartment, you're, well, going to find it much more difficult to secure things.

Misdirection is always a possibility. That's what a decoy is, but there are other ways as well. For instance, anyone who has lived in a place for many years has likely accumulated a lot of crap that they stored away. If I had a fireproof document safe (the kind that is about 1 cubic foot), I might consider storing it inside a cardboard box labeled "christmas decorations" or some such, amidst a bunch of other so-labeled boxes. Heck, we store holiday stuff in plastic tubs; one has a bunch of light strings in it. Not hard to put the doc safe in there, surround it and cover it with lights and ornaments and all the stuff we decorate with.

Unless a thief is going to open every single tub and every single cardboard box, they aren't going to find things stored in such a way.

Long guns are a different story, to some extent, and that may take some creativity, but there are ways to hide things that aren't likely to be compromised.
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Old 08-31-2014, 06:11 PM
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I live in a tri-level house with a set of 8 step to get into the basement. I rebuilt those steps so that they lift up to expose the area under the step as a hiding place for my valuables. I use a knaack box as a gun safe for extra protection plus I use the remaining space to hide most of my bug out gear. Finding places in your home that no one would thing to look is a great strategy. If they can't find it they can't take it is my philosophy. My next project is to cut a area back under the foundation so I can increase the area of this hiding spot.
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:49 PM
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Some of you who have not seen this thread, you may enjoy the ideas in it....

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=218213
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