Whetstone suggestions - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Knives, Swords & Axes Survival knives, multi-tools, gerber, buck, cold steel, leather man.....

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CCW I need one: suggestions please Ks1020 Pistol and Revolver Forum 42 12-12-2012 09:23 PM
Ar suggestions Brianv1980 Firearms General Discussion 25 11-21-2012 02:53 AM
Need an Axe - Suggestions Paul Loves Bologna Wilderness Survival, Hiking and Camping Forum 54 10-26-2012 02:27 AM
Suggestions Please! .... What to can next? Helen Gunn Farming, Gardening & Homesteading 6 09-02-2012 08:38 PM
Help - Can't own a gun & need suggestions Sublime_Rick Firearms General Discussion 40 05-22-2012 10:22 PM
A good addition to BOB or GHB.. a whetstone farmboyJD Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 8 04-03-2012 11:42 AM
DIY Whetstone Setup 9559stuart British Isles and ROI 3 09-16-2010 05:22 PM
Need a good whetstone p4+riot Reviews and questions 6 10-07-2009 05:56 PM
Buying a whetstone, what grit? txpc Knives, Swords & Axes 6 07-29-2009 11:33 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-16-2015, 07:05 PM
Theshackman321 Theshackman321 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 7
Thanks: 28
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default Whetstone suggestions



Advertise Here

I've been reading up on articles on different types of sharpening methods and want to try to learn the whestone method. I will mostly be sharpening for cooking purposes, but in the near future will be investing into bushcraft knives. I also one day aspire to learn how to shave with a straight razor.

For my setup:
I currently own a Norton Crystolon 100 / 280 grit combination stone.
I plan on making my own strop with wood from Lowes and scrap leather from a local Tandy leather.

Can anyone help me determine whether i should get the King 1000/6000 grit or Naniwa 1000/3000 grit?
Amazon.com: NANIWA COMBI Ceramic Whetstone... cover
Amazon.com: NANIWA COMBI Ceramic Whetstone...Amazon.com: King Two Sided Sharpening Stone with... cover
Amazon.com: King Two Sided Sharpening Stone with...And i'm not sure if i should use Herb's yellow compound or chromium oxide (green) on the leather to help me hone.
Herb's Yellowstone Honing and Stropping... cover
Herb's Yellowstone Honing and Stropping...Amazon.com: Woodstock D2902 1-Pound Extra Fine... cover
Amazon.com: Woodstock D2902 1-Pound Extra Fine...
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Theshackman321 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-16-2015, 07:18 PM
богдан богдан is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,334
Thanks: 599
Thanked 5,919 Times in 2,511 Posts
Default

The 1000/3000 will be most versitile.

I have a 12000 I use for my razors.

For the buffing wax I use the green stuff on my buffing wheel of my tormek
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to богдан For This Useful Post:
Old 09-16-2015, 07:26 PM
Sparks69's Avatar
Sparks69 Sparks69 is offline
Insert Name Here
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hays, Kansas
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 1,965 Times in 882 Posts
Default

Your 100/280 stone will be one you use on very rough blades that need a lot of removal to get the knife into shape. I would highly recommend to get something in the 400 to 600 range and then go with the 1000/6000 stone. For every day use you really don't need to go past 400 for a usable kitchen knife. In fact if you do take your kitchen knifes to razor sharp they will dull that much quicker because they have a finer edge to them. An actual razor however you need to have super sharp so the 6000 grit plus a leather strop should get you the edge you need.........assuming you are consistent at creating your edge.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sparks69 For This Useful Post:
 
Old 09-16-2015, 07:55 PM
Goblin X's Avatar
Goblin X Goblin X is offline
Third World'er Lunatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: coastal south carolina
Posts: 16,143
Thanks: 16,080
Thanked 34,295 Times in 11,452 Posts
Default

second on the leather strop, leather and linen set, mine is a #827 Illinois Razor strop company, Made in USA. , in the past norton hard stones, arkansas hard stone, some blades, i have angle guides, lately been using a Japanese wet stone, liking that a lot, have a couple of pocket steels, and a cooks steel, they good to have, and for AXEs and hatchets a good mill file for cleaning up a dull dented one, then a puck to bring it on in..... the only ones i don't like is called a accusharp, lil plastic grip with crossed carbide cutters, they ok i guess, but to me the make the edge uneven and bumpy if that makes any sense, i guess they work, but I don't use em....
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Goblin X For This Useful Post:
Old 09-16-2015, 09:27 PM
BigCountry86's Avatar
BigCountry86 BigCountry86 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 91
Thanks: 32
Thanked 123 Times in 59 Posts
Default

I've used many whetstones and found I like old antique ones the best. You can usally find them in about a 2×6 inch size. Now days I much prefer the three piece diamond hone set from kme. It is diamond grit bonded to a piece of 416 stainless.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to BigCountry86 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-16-2015, 10:31 PM
Rett Rett is offline
High Concept
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,085
Thanks: 1,271
Thanked 6,347 Times in 2,248 Posts
Default

The King stone will do nicely, just hone the blade with newspaper on the 6000 grit side to finish off.
Leather has too much give in it, and you will make your blade perfectly angular quicker with the newspaper on stone.
You want the razor to cut comfortably around your upper and lower lip.

For razors I don't recommend stones of coarser than 1000 grit, completely and unnecessarily rough. Diamond stones can chip your blades microscopically by cutting too deeply, and can cause grabbing of the whiskers.

Compounds and heavy stropping on leather is unnecessary, and in fact counter productive and reduces blade life.

Guys have brought their razors into the shop completely brutalized, and I have to explain that in grandads day razors were far cheaper and common than they are today. They could slap them around knowing that a replacement was cheap.

I know plenty of guys that can get a razor sharp enough to shave a face, but when it comes to the upper and lower lip they have to hack on through with pulling, discomfort and sometimes cuts. Then say how much they love that straight razor shave, feeling.
The razor needs to glide smooth and clean like there is no whiskers at all, no rashes or nicks.

Just keep your razor stone for doing razors, don't dish it out sharpening machetes or something, keep the original flatness that way you don't have to heavily redress the stone when you need it for the razors.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rett For This Useful Post:
Old 09-16-2015, 11:54 PM
SgtBooker44's Avatar
SgtBooker44 SgtBooker44 is offline
Looks like rain to me.
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Absaroka County, Wyoming
Posts: 40,579
Thanks: 4,529
Thanked 43,457 Times in 25,843 Posts
Awards Showcase
Top Poster 
Total Awards: 1
Default

The sharpest tool I own is the chisel that I use to chop mortise and tenon joints for cabinet and furniture making. I use several grits of diamond stones down to 2000. After that I strop them on a leather strop with green buffing compound.

I use the same system to sharpen my pocket knife and it works like a charm.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to SgtBooker44 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-17-2015, 08:14 AM
BigCountry86's Avatar
BigCountry86 BigCountry86 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 91
Thanks: 32
Thanked 123 Times in 59 Posts
Default

I have never chipped a razor on a diamond stone. If you chip it, you're applying too much pressure. No pressure is needed just pass it on an extra fine stone just lIke stropping
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to BigCountry86 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-17-2015, 12:36 PM
Theshackman321 Theshackman321 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 7
Thanks: 28
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Thanks yall, your feedback is much appreciated.

I am leaning towards the King whetstone; I think it will fit my needs the most. I'll want to delve into stropping with green compound because its a relatively cheap project, and I want to personally learn and feel why it is effective / ineffective. However, newspaper on the 6000 grit sounds like an interesting technique that I will try. It sounds like I may need a ~500 grit gap between the two sharpening stones. What would you recommend to bridge that gap?

I've also been reading up on various sharpening grinds, and noticed that sabre / scandi and convex seem to be the most popular.
Am I correct in thinking that hollow grinds are best for razors, scandi grinds are best for bushcraft knives, and convex grinds are best for kitchen knives?
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-17-2015, 05:30 PM
богдан богдан is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,334
Thanks: 599
Thanked 5,919 Times in 2,511 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theshackman321 View Post
Thanks yall, your feedback is much appreciated.

I am leaning towards the King whetstone; I think it will fit my needs the most. I'll want to delve into stropping with green compound because its a relatively cheap project, and I want to personally learn and feel why it is effective / ineffective. However, newspaper on the 6000 grit sounds like an interesting technique that I will try. It sounds like I may need a ~500 grit gap between the two sharpening stones. What would you recommend to bridge that gap?

I've also been reading up on various sharpening grinds, and noticed that sabre / scandi and convex seem to be the most popular.
Am I correct in thinking that hollow grinds are best for razors, scandi grinds are best for bushcraft knives, and convex grinds are best for kitchen knives?
It's really user preference. I like my sog and I like my pukko. Both work
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to богдан For This Useful Post:
Old 09-17-2015, 06:51 PM
Sparks69's Avatar
Sparks69 Sparks69 is offline
Insert Name Here
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hays, Kansas
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 1,441
Thanked 1,965 Times in 882 Posts
Default

You have to kind of visualize the edge of a Scandi and / or a convex grind. They are the perfect bLance of having a thin cutting edge but they very quickly widen out for durability. By contrast a flat grind or hollow grind have the same fine edge but they stay thin longer. Can be very sharp but are not as durable.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Sparks69 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-17-2015, 11:32 PM
Rett Rett is offline
High Concept
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,085
Thanks: 1,271
Thanked 6,347 Times in 2,248 Posts
Default

Quote:
newspaper on the 6000 grit sounds like an interesting technique that I will try.
There is just enough abrasives in the newspaper to fine hone the edge, however because the newspaper lays flat on the 6000 grit stone there is far less give than leather, thus achieving a very fine edge without curling. It's like having a 30 thousand grit stone for no cost at all.

I demonstrate to customers by push cutting circles in fine rice paper.

Many homogenous blades can not hold this kind of edge for long, however white steel # 1 and blue steel # 2 can hold them quite well. These are usually the core of laminated Japanese blades.
I brought a UHC steel by Roselli up to this kind of level of sharp with brown shopping bag paper, and it never blunted after a great deal of use. The fine clay particles in the paper quickly brought that mystical level of sharpness. UHC steel is the most remarkable steel I have ever come across, it's manufacture is a closely guarded secret, the quality of the edge and durability is astounding.

I sharpen by feel and UHC steel had me amazed the more I worked with it.

It all depends on the type of steels you are working with, and technique, but the more you practice and let your senses give you feedback the better your results.

Forget precise angles just hold the blade at the angle that suits the purpose of the blade, and instinctively by feel and observation and muscle memory you will master it.

You will always get a blade sharper by back stroking/ stropping rather than cutting into the stone.

For re profiling knives I highly recommend the Naniwa chosera 400 grit stone. Just a beautiful stone to work with.

Polishing I recommend the Naniwa super stone 5000 grit, it's a resin based stone and the feel is gummy or sticky in use, but it produces fantastic mirror polish on blades, far more than it should.

In Japan I noticed most people used King stones at home, and professionals and trades men used Naniwa Chosera stones. Quite a number of homes had the large 800 grit or 1000 grit King stones. I thought these large stones where the coolest thing I had ever seen when I first locked eyes on one. It dwarfed the standard size stone by a great deal weighing in at a just under 10lbs.
These I was told were for the longer cooking knives like the tuna and sushi knives. But saw the long life option with these as a household stone.

Since then I have grown to love these large stones and the work that can be done on them.

Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rett For This Useful Post:
Old 09-20-2015, 02:15 AM
shakeylee shakeylee is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: philadelphia
Posts: 474
Thanks: 107
Thanked 320 Times in 211 Posts
Default

i generally use carborundum stones with water ,or water and dishwashing liquid,followed by a ceramic rod.

when i strop a razor,i don't use compund.i have a linen and a leather strop.i think it is dovo brand.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to shakeylee For This Useful Post:
Old 09-20-2015, 10:20 PM
Goblin X's Avatar
Goblin X Goblin X is offline
Third World'er Lunatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: coastal south carolina
Posts: 16,143
Thanks: 16,080
Thanked 34,295 Times in 11,452 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rett View Post
There is just enough abrasives in the newspaper to fine hone the edge, however because the newspaper lays flat on the 6000 grit stone there is far less give than leather, thus achieving a very fine edge without curling. It's like having a 30 thousand grit stone for no cost at all.

I demonstrate to customers by push cutting circles in fine rice paper.

Many homogenous blades can not hold this kind of edge for long, however white steel # 1 and blue steel # 2 can hold them quite well. These are usually the core of laminated Japanese blades.
I brought a UHC steel by Roselli up to this kind of level of sharp with brown shopping bag paper, and it never blunted after a great deal of use. The fine clay particles in the paper quickly brought that mystical level of sharpness. UHC steel is the most remarkable steel I have ever come across, it's manufacture is a closely guarded secret, the quality of the edge and durability is astounding.

I sharpen by feel and UHC steel had me amazed the more I worked with it.

It all depends on the type of steels you are working with, and technique, but the more you practice and let your senses give you feedback the better your results.

Forget precise angles just hold the blade at the angle that suits the purpose of the blade, and instinctively by feel and observation and muscle memory you will master it.

You will always get a blade sharper by back stroking/ stropping rather than cutting into the stone.

For re profiling knives I highly recommend the Naniwa chosera 400 grit stone. Just a beautiful stone to work with.

Polishing I recommend the Naniwa super stone 5000 grit, it's a resin based stone and the feel is gummy or sticky in use, but it produces fantastic mirror polish on blades, far more than it should.

In Japan I noticed most people used King stones at home, and professionals and trades men used Naniwa Chosera stones. Quite a number of homes had the large 800 grit or 1000 grit King stones. I thought these large stones where the coolest thing I had ever seen when I first locked eyes on one. It dwarfed the standard size stone by a great deal weighing in at a just under 10lbs.
These I was told were for the longer cooking knives like the tuna and sushi knives. But saw the long life option with these as a household stone.

Since then I have grown to love these large stones and the work that can be done on them.

I have found a local source for the smaller King stones, and i have a marble "lapp" table, but, where can you find a source for the large 1000 grit king stone? was trying to find one local, hate to risk shipping chips/cracks but its not panning out.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-21-2015, 01:54 AM
Rett Rett is offline
High Concept
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,085
Thanks: 1,271
Thanked 6,347 Times in 2,248 Posts
Default

Have you tried Lee Valley they stock King Stones, it might require a special order with added freight. These aren't common stones in the states. If you have any Japanese Chef friends that regularly go to Japan, that could also make a big difference.

These are worth having for longer blades, the convenience of having the luxurious real-estate to work on is great.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Rett For This Useful Post:
Old 09-21-2015, 03:58 PM
Goblin X's Avatar
Goblin X Goblin X is offline
Third World'er Lunatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: coastal south carolina
Posts: 16,143
Thanks: 16,080
Thanked 34,295 Times in 11,452 Posts
Default

I will try lee first, chefs are out, i don't even have a resteraunt close, bout 2 hours away is the closest Korean "style" and i use that very loosely. I know what you mean about the extra real estate, small stones are fine, till you use a larger one.... then ya gotta find one. added freight aint no problem. thanx. I do have a Marine friend in Japan, have to have him box it well though. that's a long trip... even if he does MAK it to Cali.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Goblin X For This Useful Post:
Old 09-21-2015, 06:24 PM
rabiddog9's Avatar
rabiddog9 rabiddog9 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,606
Thanks: 3,098
Thanked 6,951 Times in 2,357 Posts
Default

I don't sharpen straight razors, but for my machetes, goloks and parangs I use the Ken Onion belt sharpener to good effect. For knives I like the 220, 1000, 3000 Chosera and Shapton stones followed by the strop with green (CrO2) compound.
Funny thing about sharpening...everyone has their own likes, dislikes and style, most of which work fine for that person, it's almost kinda "spiritual" in nature.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rabiddog9 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-21-2015, 09:04 PM
Goblin X's Avatar
Goblin X Goblin X is offline
Third World'er Lunatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: coastal south carolina
Posts: 16,143
Thanks: 16,080
Thanked 34,295 Times in 11,452 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabiddog9 View Post
I don't sharpen straight razors, but for my machetes, goloks and parangs I use the Ken Onion belt sharpener to good effect. For knives I like the 220, 1000, 3000 Chosera and Shapton stones followed by the strop with green (CrO2) compound.
Funny thing about sharpening...everyone has their own likes, dislikes and style, most of which work fine for that person, it's almost kinda "spiritual" in nature.
when i go thru my personals blades and the kitchen blades , dont know about spiritual, but it is a good way to relax and unwind.....
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Goblin X For This Useful Post:
Old 09-22-2015, 01:41 AM
Rett Rett is offline
High Concept
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,085
Thanks: 1,271
Thanked 6,347 Times in 2,248 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabiddog9 View Post
I don't sharpen straight razors, but for my machetes, goloks and parangs I use the Ken Onion belt sharpener to good effect. For knives I like the 220, 1000, 3000 Chosera and Shapton stones followed by the strop with green (CrO2) compound.
Funny thing about sharpening...everyone has their own likes, dislikes and style, most of which work fine for that person, it's almost kinda "spiritual" in nature.
In a sense you are right. Sharpening restores something to functionality, it brings order and functionality. The satisfaction comes from seeing it work flawlessly in its intended purpose. Like restoring an old bike that hasn't worked in years.

Even if I get paid to sharpen knives, I like to restore friends knives when I'm at their place. Old knives that have been been chewed on by electric sharpeners until they can't be sharpened any more.

I seems everyone has knives they can't get sharp on the machine and they sit in the backs of draws doing nothing. All they needed was a little thinning down and a new primary edge put on them.

People say, no that knife is bad and worn out, I can't seem get an edge on it like it used to have.
Then I show them that they have been grinding the primary edge for so long that it has become obtuse, thicker, and the blade needs thinning down to its original angle.
Then the lightbulb goes off and they have learned something fundamental about restoring their dysfunctional gear.

Seeing blunt knives being used is like seeing a kid walking around with shoelaces undone and tripping over, or an old gate hanging by one hinge. A man likes to see things work properly and being used properly. Its just good for his spirit to see things functioning properly.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rett For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
compound, convex, grind, grit, king, naniwa, sabre, scandi, sharpen, strop, whetstone



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net