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Old 02-25-2015, 08:10 AM
sygata sygata is offline
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Well, first of all, Russia does not need Ukraine, meaning annexing Ukraine as a whole. Some areas would never accept Russia. There are parts of Ukraine were Russia is more welcomed than in others, but Crimea with its vast majority is more of an exception. Russia wants a heavily controlled buffer zone, an if the whole Ukraine is part of Russia, it will not be a buffer zone

Second, Russia refuses to admit itself as a side of this conflict. Even Ukraine top military admitted at the end of January this year, that they don't have any fight with Russia regular army. So, in reality Ukraine cannot surrender to Russia, it can only agree to give independence to Donetsk and Lugansk, and this is simply unacceptable.

Last edited by Mels thinkingitover; 02-25-2015 at 04:04 PM.. Reason: removed deleted quoted post
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:34 AM
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George, since you had to get your family out of area hit with heavy fighting, are you planning to get your family as far from the war as possible soon?
While you still have money to do so.

Are the people there helping each other or is everyone on their own?

Have you looked up edible plants in your area in case you need to eat off the land? In time as the war goes on, food becomes harder to find.

Are families getting together to plan an evacuation together to distant safer towns? Safety in numbers.

You mentioned you were into survival prior to the war. Have you looked up simple ways to make a water filter? Since the toxic smoke clouds can contaminate snow from fires and explosions, do you use a water filter if you melt snow? There are some very easy water filters in this site you can build, or just ask and we can provide links to them.

Also, if you need advice on different types of survival, just post your questions and many will help. You can then pick which helps you the most since you may get a lot of replies to your questions.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:50 AM
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George, may God bless you, your family and your country. Thank you for sharing. I wish I could do more to help you and your country. I apologize that my once proud and strong country did absolutely nothing to stand up for a free Ukraine. I think our dumbass president was playing golf while you were trying to keep your family alive.

I think your story will help us tremendously in understanding what we call SHTF. Again, thank you for sharing.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:05 AM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by sygata View Post
Well, first of all, Russia does not need Ukraine, meaning annexing Ukraine as a whole. Some areas would never accept Russia. There are parts of Ukraine were Russia is more welcomed than in others, but Crimea with its vast majority is more of an exception. Russia wants a heavily controlled buffer zone, an if the whole Ukraine is part of Russia, it will not be a buffer zone

Second, Russia refuses to admit itself as a side of this conflict. Even Ukraine top military admitted at the end of January this year, that they don't have any fight with Russia regular army. So, in reality Ukraine cannot surrender to Russia, it can only agree to give independence to Donetsk and Lugansk, and this is simply unacceptable.
Absolutly correct. Despite all moral aspects many people in Donbass region would not mind if Russia will annex their land, but Russia don't need it. This destroyed land is a tool for destroying Ukrainian economic and not would be part of Russia. In the same time Ukraine do not want free this almost useless region now. Simple people of region are most unhappy in this situation - anyone does not need their destroyed cities and hungry mouthes.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:26 AM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by usmountains View Post
George, since you had to get your family out of area hit with heavy fighting, are you planning to get your family as far from the war as possible soon?
While you still have money to do so.

Are the people there helping each other or is everyone on their own?

Have you looked up edible plants in your area in case you need to eat off the land? In time as the war goes on, food becomes harder to find.

Are families getting together to plan an evacuation together to distant safer towns? Safety in numbers.

You mentioned you were into survival prior to the war. Have you looked up simple ways to make a water filter? Since the toxic smoke clouds can contaminate snow from fires and explosions, do you use a water filter if you melt snow? There are some very easy water filters in this site you can build, or just ask and we can provide links to them.

Also, if you need advice on different types of survival, just post your questions and many will help. You can then pick which helps you the most since you may get a lot of replies to your questions.
Yes, I had made water filter. It helps me to purify technical (not very clear and bad smelled) water from tank car.
Filter contains well-crushed charcoal (it was fuel for barbecue) and one layer of cotton. It was 7 litres bottle with little holes in the cap. I have boiled charcoal powder for a ten minutes and then put it in the inverted bottle without bottom. It works pretty good, but rather slow - 1 litres per hour.
Somekind like this http://aqua-rmnt.com/wp-content/uplo...iltrvody32.jpg
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:31 AM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alaskajohn View Post
George, may God bless you, your family and your country. Thank you for sharing. I wish I could do more to help you and your country. I apologize that my once proud and strong country did absolutely nothing to stand up for a free Ukraine. I think our dumbass president was playing golf while you were trying to keep your family alive.

I think your story will help us tremendously in understanding what we call SHTF. Again, thank you for sharing.
Thank you very much too.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:53 AM
sygata sygata is offline
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Originally Posted by George1980 View Post
water from tank car
Just to clarify - you are talking about that water:





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Old 02-25-2015, 10:05 AM
Sal4liberty Sal4liberty is offline
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George1980 thank you for sharing your story, good luck and godspeed to you and your family
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:11 AM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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Now I want to say about very important theme. May be, it is the most important issue!
Donbass war have occurred in region of poor people. Many of them have not ANY accumulated money! In direct sense. Thousands of peoples had got money equal one month salary – it near 300-400 $. Many haven’t even this money. When disaster occurred and people float in other cities, they could not rent flat. I have read about temporary camps after New Orleans disaster in USA. In Donbass were more than 1 million refugees – and government does not provide housing and food even 5-10% of this people.
Many of them were forced to rent house by themselves, but (suddenly!!) very many owners of rent houses didn’t want to let refugees to rent their flats – it was disadvantageously for rent owners who like long-term tenants. And almost all of refugees hoped that would soon come back to their homes. My friend was looking for house in Dnepropetrovsk near month – about ten of rent owners refused him after he said his native town.
It was cause for massive exodus in summer 2014 and massive return in autumn and winter 2014. People use up all of their money and were forced to return to their half-destroyed cities.
Government pays about 70 $ in summer and about 30 $ today (Ukrainian hrivna very fast devalues) to refugee - it is critical little money, especially if he rents house.
I thank God that I had accumulated cash.
Some help provide volunteers, but it is not enough. Volunteers can help with food and clothes but very rare can provide housing.
So my conclusion is so: cash is main tool of survivor!
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:12 AM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygata View Post
Just to clarify - you are talking about that water:





Yes, like this. And in winter staying in line was very uncomfortable.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:23 AM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by usmountains View Post
Are the people there helping each other or is everyone on their own?
It may sounds sad, but pauper can't help another one. But, at the another hand, agressive contentions between people in lines and shelters also are very rare thing. Even people can't help one another, they try avoid rage and quarrels.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:35 AM
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George, What non profit is helping people like you in Ukraine the most? It would help people that would like to help and donate money if they knew who was actually helping you and people like you.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:35 AM
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Welcome to the board George!
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:37 AM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George1980 View Post
Now I want to say about very important theme. May be, it is the most important issue!
Donbass war have occurred in region of poor people. Many of them have not ANY accumulated money! In direct sense. Thousands of peoples had got money equal one month salary – it near 300-400 $. Many haven’t even this money. When disaster occurred and people float in other cities, they could not rent flat. I have read about temporary camps after New Orleans disaster in USA. In Donbass were more than 1 million refugees – and government does not provide housing and food even 5-10% of this people.
Many of them were forced to rent house by themselves, but (suddenly!!) very many owners of rent houses didn’t want to let refugees to rent their flats – it was disadvantageously for rent owners who like long-term tenants. And almost all of refugees hoped that would soon come back to their homes. My friend was looking for house in Dnepropetrovsk near month – about ten of rent owners refused him after he said his native town.
It was cause for massive exodus in summer 2014 and massive return in autumn and winter 2014. People use up all of their money and were forced to return to their half-destroyed cities.
Government pays about 70 $ in summer and about 30 $ today (Ukrainian hrivna very fast devalues) to refugee - it is critical little money, especially if he rents house.
I thank God that I had accumulated cash.
Some help provide volunteers, but it is not enough. Volunteers can help with food and clothes but very rare can provide housing.
So my conclusion is so: cash is main tool of survivor!
^ needs to be said again.


George: have you read the accounts of the Balkinswar/survival?
It may hold useful info for you.


Edit: on the topic of the shotgun:
http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot...-army-ten.html
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:23 AM
Insneaker Insneaker is offline
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Thank you very much about your post!

I write this post for you, but also for every one others, because they might find some new perspectives out of it. So there is no need to comment this if not feeling so.

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Originally Posted by George1980 View Post
It is a great question! And very wide.
First of all, best survival strategy is, really, quick evacuation! It is impossible to be prepared to everything.
Yes getting out is most best action what one can do.
In this forum, many guys are talking about protections and hardening their homes. During peace time, that is very good idea. But from war perspective, I can just lost my home and that is something what I have to accept. Life of myself and my loved ones come first.

Right now I'm living in the one of our biggest city. This isn't capital and this isn't in most tactical location in this country. But we are one of the biggest city, we have harbor and airport.
I surely know that this isn't first place where war come, but this can very well be second or third one if war don't end and fast.

I have great bug out location/possibilities middle of the woods, middle of the nowhere what I believe will be more or less saved in case of war. This might sound like a cliche (bug out location middle of the woods), but in case of war, there just isn't anything what to conquer over there and war affect less over there than over here.

But my problem is conscription. Even if I'm bugging out of here while I'm not yet called into the duty, they can move me around like a chess piece if wanted to.
So in the end, it all come to luck where I'm going to be and what is my part of that war. Luckily, at least my family can dodge it.

Quote:
1. Own gun is not the most necessary item. In my situation it can be cause of death.
Yes this is sounding pretty obvious to me.
I don't own gun and don't even feel like I would need one. If war happens my country will handle me a gun if needed. If they don't give me one, in that case I want to be as far away from war as possible. If I feel like I would be needing a gun, I'm in wrong place!

And I surely hope that if I'm called to duty that I can be just a medic or mechanic (Both might be options for me, it really depends where they need me!) somewhere far away from fighting and I don't have to start dodging and shooting anything at all.

And as long as I stay civilian... At this moment I'm wearing military surplus. I really love those clothes, but if war is happening I don't going to wear those clothes, because I don't want to look like a part of the military. That could get me killed. Instead I'm wanting to look like a civilian... until I'm called to duty.

Quote:
2. Worst things are:
- non-availability of electricity. It is a WORST thing! You cannot charge your mobile, canít read important news in internet, can not turn on heater in winter, often can not cook, and, of course, you havenít light. Yes, there are very many improvised solutions, but most of them are very uncomfortable. In Donetsk there are whole districts without electricity for months (in the most hot places of combats). Most of their inhabitants leave it. No electricity Ė no life.
This is very true.
I have covered very basic needs of electricity. I can reach internet and use my phone and radio. I have way to cook and have minimum light.
This is cold country during winter (We can talk -30c to -50c plus windchill!) and that is something what in this apartment could be causing problems. In my bug out location, this is already solved.

Quote:
- Absence of water. Rockets often destroy pump stations of city plumbing and it has very unpleasant consequences. Worst of it is canít use toilet. Imagine, there was winter, - 10 degrees, and we have not toilet for three weeks. We use bucket with soil. For cooking we wait in the long line of people to get some water from tank car.
This sound just terrible.
I don't want to imagine how people would solve toilet issue over here... As long as our government don't tell us what is best solution, I believe this would be big problem here when people is finding their own solutions.

Water will also be issue here.
Tank cars are something what will absolutely happens here too and luckily we are sitting top of the one of the world best water table... That could be helping us.
So in the end, I'm here more worried how people dispose their waste than anything else.

Quote:
- When banks are closed. All of us have credit cards for salary or pension. But banks in DNR have closed one by one and in winter 2014 there was no one of it. Peoples havenít cash enough and are forced to go into Ukrainian cities to ATMs. It is long, hard, and danger procedure. My parents cursed all of men with guns after this operation.
This really sound like a problem in so many levels. If way to get money is hard, people probably take more money out at once than usually, I assume.

I normally don't keep more cash in my wallet than what I'm ready to lose. It sounds like a lot of guys could be keeping more money in their wallet/in their home than what they are ready to lose.

Quote:
- Missiles attacks. Yes, there are not a big numbers of victims Ė every attack as a rule kills 3-5 people. But rockets destroy electric wires, gas tubes, pump stations and, after all, windows. Explosion may not kill anybody, but it breaks the glass in several apartment houses. And dozens of peoples would cold in winter. There are rather cold winters in Ukraine, temperature often can be -10 or -15 degrees. And without windows flat is almost useless. Besides it, breaking fragments of glass can wound people in room.
Yes this is obviously very big problem, because missiles are destroying basic structures. And it is also very hard to prepare against this.

Quote:
- And, after all, no food. No, food is present in a shops, but most of people havenít cash to buy it.
So in the end, there is no water, no food and also shelter is compromised. Cash would solve some problems (But could be bringing some others.)

Quote:
I think no sense to be prepared to this many problems. Best way is evacuation. But it costs money, so I was happy that I have some dollar cash.
You are right. There is a lot of problems and it is hard to prepare for every one of them. And there is not so much sense to try to prepare yourself for everything. And when missiles start flying, you can lost pretty much everything no matter how well you are prepared.

I have food in home and some candles, flashlights, radio, batteries, solar chargers and some other stuff. We are talking about very minimum preparing only.
And my most important devices (smartphone, flashlight and radio) fit into my pocket (and they stay there all the time!) and I have also solar charger to keep them powered (more or less.)
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:50 AM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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George, What non profit is helping people like you in Ukraine the most? It would help people that would like to help and donate money if they knew who was actually helping you and people like you.
I know that guys are good volunteers - https://www.facebook.com/Station.Kharkov. Organization "Station Kharkov".
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:14 PM
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And as long as I stay civilian... At this moment I'm wearing military surplus. I really love those clothes, but if war is happening I don't going to wear those clothes, because I don't want to look like a part of the military. That could get me killed. Instead I'm wanting to look like a civilian... until I'm called to duty.
Oh yes! I had trouble with it! I wore pants of spanish GAMO brand when I have arrived in Kharkov -
and noticed that it magnets angry glances. Then I understood, that my trausers were very similar to russian military pants which most of separs wear -
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:23 PM
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George, thank you very much for sharing your experiences. It is good for all people to have first-hand accounts of what is happening in the war over there. Our media tells us many things, and we do not know what is a lie or the truth. We never hear about the common people, like us. This is very important, so we know what to do. Obviously, America is very different, but knowing what is important will help all of us prepare for something that might affect us in the future, as well.

Are there people with disabilities, that you know of, that have been affected by the war? One of my concerns is my daughter. She has a rare brain disorder and requires many special accommodations to stay alive. If I had to "bug out", it would be very difficult to keep her alive for a long time if I was not prepared.

Do people have to leave their pets behind?

Is there anyone to help your people rebuild once they go back home?

If you can think of any other organizations that are helping, people on this board will be happy to promote their names so money can go to those that are truly helping in your area.

I am praying for your country and family. Bless you all.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:58 PM
George1980 George1980 is offline
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Originally Posted by Like-Minded View Post
George, thank you very much for sharing your experiences. It is good for all people to have first-hand accounts of what is happening in the war over there. Our media tells us many things, and we do not know what is a lie or the truth. We never hear about the common people, like us. This is very important, so we know what to do. Obviously, America is very different, but knowing what is important will help all of us prepare for something that might affect us in the future, as well.
Are there people with disabilities, that you know of, that have been affected by the war? One of my concerns is my daughter. She has a rare brain disorder and requires many special accommodations to stay alive. If I had to "bug out", it would be very difficult to keep her alive for a long time if I was not prepared.
Do people have to leave their pets behind?
Is there anyone to help your people rebuild once they go back home?
If you can think of any other organizations that are helping, people on this board will be happy to promote their names so money can go to those that are truly helping in your area.
I am praying for your country and family. Bless you all.
1. It is a real big problem! Many weak old people who can not free walk and completely depends on pensions died in their houses, because they could not to go in another cities for their money.
And such person in a family can be cause to be maximal cautious in hard times and evacuate in first hours of disaster.
From the other hand, and it may sounds strange, such person could be a lucky ticket Ė at the checkpoints. Almost all of military men, even greed and angry, could not harm children and weak people. In Donbass was some kind of trick for refugees: when some driver of a car wanted to easy pass checkpoints he was trying to find women with child or person with pet. Such car was not suspicious.

2. Yes, many people do that way because big dog was impossible to transport in train. But my sisterís family can take their dog in Odessa. But dog provide many troubles at the time of finding rent house - rent-owners donít like tenants with petsÖ

3. Do you mean: rebuild and repair their damaged houses? No. Completely no.

4. You know, Ukraine is so corrupt state, that I donít sure know such organizations. The only organization what I know is ďStation KharkovĒ, they seem to be honest guys.

Thank you for your prayers!
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:01 PM
Insneaker Insneaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Like-Minded View Post
It is good for all people to have first-hand accounts of what is happening in the war over there. Our media tells us many things, and we do not know what is a lie or the truth. We never hear about the common people, like us. This is very important, so we know what to do. Obviously, America is very different, but knowing what is important will help all of us prepare for something that might affect us in the future, as well.
Yest news sensor a lot away and real information what happens over there can be harder to find. Myself I follow military forums and because of that, I have seen many photos/videos what it look like in Ukraine.
News don't tell you that!

These kind of stories are indeed very important. Many member of this forum are from Usa, but also not usa folks might find this forum and this story. (I'm one of them and for me, this story is golden!)
I also think this kind of stories as a reality checks for everyone. And when looking many topics in this forum, reality check is needed once in a while.

Quote:
One of my concerns is my daughter. She has a rare brain disorder and requires many special accommodations to stay alive. If I had to "bug out", it would be very difficult to keep her alive for a long time if I was not prepared.
In your case, you must know what are the hospitals where your daughter can be treated. Your bugging out should be happening very near of them.
Remember that not every situation is end of the world and where "the system" is completely failed. Even in case of war, there still is system around you! You don't need to be "one man army" but instead, you can depend on that system. (Some of us have to depend on that more, some others less. That don't make you any worse person!)

Quote:
Do people have to leave their pets behind?
I'm wrestling myself with this issue.
Some people do leave their pets behind because:

-they don't care about them too much.
-they don't have time to save them.
-they don't have plan how to save them.
-they were too scared to save them.
-They just didn't have food for them and so on...

In case of emergency/war, some people just abandon their pets, others take care of them.
At this moment, house fire is my biggest possible worry and I cannot take every pet with me because I cannot catch them all in hurry. Yeah there might not be enough time to catch them.
So I have multiple plans how to catch them, what to do and so on. In any cases, I'm not leaving them behind without chance to escape from this house!

This is important matter for me, because I'm animal lover and our economy is worsen because Ukraine situation.
People already leave their pets behind, or stop taking care of them because they simple don't have money or mental energy to treat them anymore! If there would be war, I bet that many others would be just leaving their pets behind. And in case of bombings, I believe that there would be only very few of us who would try to save their pets if cannot catch them immediately.
In my eyes, every life is important! No matter if it is human or animal.

But pure fact is that how people feel (mentally) that also affect how they value/take care of their pets. And war is huge stress factor if it happen in your country, or specially in your area!
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