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Old 12-14-2012, 06:12 PM
Optouter Optouter is offline
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Question for Optouter: Hmm, so are “Preppers” actually just a specific type of “Hoarders,” do ya think? Karen
——————–
Karen,
Actually, that is something I have thought about for many years. Whatever we think of “preppers” or “survivalists” what they are doing is virtually the same thing more primitive cultures and tribes did thousands of years ago and Mormons have been doing for over 100 years. They store stuff (mainly food and things to grow food) in the event of an emergency. Centuries ago it might be a drought or a war or a siege or a plague of locusts. But until modern times, there was no Red Cross or FEMA or National Guard to bring in potable water or Port-A-Potties or pork-and-beans or medical supplies. As recently as my lifetime in southern Louisiana we endured half a dozen direct hits from hurricanes in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s which knocked out power and thus water for a week or more as well as most of the systems that bring us food, sustenance and comfort. Back then people got by with the provisions they kept on hand. They were taught by example of their elders to think ahead and gather together both the consumables they needed as well as prepare themselves emotionally and physically for what was coming. As a result folks were far more resilient and resourceful back then. As a result, they were less stressed during emergencies, cooperated more, were less fearful, and bounced back sooner from the emergency. But that was then and this is now.

We are far more systems dependent now. Fast forward fifty years and society is much different in that most people now expect government to rescue them from not only privation but from discomfort and bring them ice and bottled water and hot food and even toilet paper and portable showers. And in a democracy we citizens get what we want which, in the final analysis, is to tax those who have the good sense to live in safer areas. And we more prudent citizens get the guilt trip and the duty of taking care of those who choose to live in areas much more prone to floods and tornadoes and Hurricanes. (All barrier islands around the US, the areas immediately adjacent to oceans, the Missouri, Tennessee, and Mississippi river valleys, etc.) But before I wander into a quagmire of political discourse, back to hoarding.

IMO, a fairly significant percentage of Americans today do not have much faith in government’s ability to take care of them in an emergency and that is healthy. Or, they choose deliberately to take care of themselves and their families in tough times and that is another healthy thing to do. They do so by purchasing and storing ahead of the emergency almost anything they think is practical or necessary to avoid dependency on others, or privation or even death. Those things can include food, water, water purification techniques, tools, medicine, fuel, money, guns, seeds, booze, books, candles, kerosene lamps, whatever they think they will need or want badly or that they can trade to get by.

At this point I come to the defense and admiration of these people regardless of their motivation. But I often consider the motivation and thinking of a lot of them to be misguided and paranoid. Regardless, their gathering all this stuff ahead of the emergency is not hoarding if they gather it gradually and carefully and ultimately use it up. By doing so, preppers or survivors or whatever one wants to call them, make things significantly better for everyone in a number of significant ways when things suddenly go from ok to bad to worse:
1. They are safely at home taking care of themselves, their families, and possibly even their immediate neighbors,
2. They are not out there engaging in road rage and bumper pool in the parking lots of big-box stores to fight over the last loaf of bread, quart of milk or gallon of gas,
3. They are not inclined out of desperation to grab as much of anything they can get their hands on depriving others of some share of what is left,
4. They are not putting a burden on already overburdened government emergency systems whether community, local, state or national,
5. They are not taxing the economic supply chain to bring in more stuff than it can provide at one specific time. Supply systems are build and managed to meet a normal and predictable flow. Increasingly, supply systems are designed for “just-in-time” so there is little or no reserve in the pipeline. In an emergency, such highly cost effective and efficient systems likely will break down.
6. By purchasing stuff in advance, the economy can anticipate the need, make it, ship it, and distribute it far ahead of an emergency. Miners, shippers, manufacturers and distributors have the incentive and time to resupply itself with whatever is needed to produce the final goods.
7. By stockpiling usable stuff preppers help reduce price spikes and resulting price gouging.
8. Overall, fear and panic are reduced in a community or culture where individuals prepare for emergencies. People are more inclined to cooperate than compete,
9. Everyone is better off — including those who do nothing to be self sufficient!
10. Best of all, no one is harmed by preparing for emergencies.

Over the past 35 years I have watched the media predictably and repeatedly characterize those who prepare for emergencies as “hoarders”. Use of such a term characterizes us as selfish and even evil and mentally unbalanced. The media does that because it sells advertising. And it also resonates with the majority of citizens who desperately want to be titilated and feel smarter and superior to someone else -- especially morally superior. So never allow yourself to be put down by such characterizations. You are doing them a favor and they don't even know it.
Carry on,
Optouter
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:16 PM
Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
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Too loooooong. Wanna sum that up?

To answer your question, maybe. I was a minimalist when I was young but now my pantry is stuffed and the basement is lined with shelving. I don't hoard multiple items or garbage though. I stock what I consider useful. The pantry has stacks of canning jars and stainless steel pots, antique kitchen gadgets, tattler lids, and foods that I have canned. The basement shelves are lined with totes and look pretty neat.

A hoarder can be interested in hoarding cats, rotten food, papers, or prepper items. Some hoarders are preppers but that doesn't mean all preppers are hoarders.

Last edited by Chrysalis; 12-14-2012 at 08:43 PM..
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:30 PM
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I consider myself an investor investing in a commodity that can only increase in value in an uncertain future.
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:41 PM
dealfinder500 dealfinder500 is offline
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I only skimmed the article, so here goes:

A Prepper is NOT a hoarder. A hoarder causes other people to go without. A prepper preps while the prepping is good, so to speak. Example:

If some disaster is coming and I go to the store and buy 25 cases of water and leave little or none for anyone else... I'd consider that to be hoarding.

But if I went over a period of time and bought the same amount, or even much more, little by little, (or put in a special bulk order or something), that's not hoarding, it's prepping.

So when a disaster comes, a hoarder causes hardship for others because they are taking a larger share of limited resources. A prepper is an asset because at the very least, he's not adding to the number of people taking from the now limited resources. He stocked up while there was still plenty. Since he has no need to stock up at the last minute like everyone else, he can sit comfy at home, prepared, while leaving more resources for everyone else (not that it will do them much good if it was a long term disaster).
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsymoonfarm View Post
Too loooooong. Wanna sum that up?
NO. The Op said as concisely as necessary to sum up a mindset (a mindset is a complicated thing). Good on the OP to explain things so well, better than I could. She explained that "prepping" is doing a service to yourself, and by extension - society. She went to the trouble to write an excellent article, you can at least read it.

We all know that if SHTF/TEOTWAKI/zombie apocolopyse, etc happens that there will be many in need. We should all consider our personal situations, surroundings, neighbors, financial resources and skillsets with the possibility to aid others.

Last week a mother with two girls were going door to door in my neighborhood asking for food donations to the local church's food pantry. I know this church and know it does have not only a pantry, but will serve hot food on occasions. I can recall as a child my family received food from churches (not often- but a few times). Maybe it was those exact memories that made me a prepper? Because I am a prepper/hoarder/wacko/right wing extremist/purchaser of food on sale-in bulk, I was able to give them two cases of vegetables, five pounds of flour, five pounds of sugar and four whole chickens.

The mother was obviously teaching her girls about giving and helping in a productive Christian way, so I felt obliged to assist. There are more than enough folks out there that could give a darn about others. Maybe I will also one day when society slides further into the abyss; but for now I have enough kerlix, betadyne and rice for the block.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:04 PM
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IMO a hoarder is "that guy" that drives to Palmetto State Armory and buys ALL the 5.56 ammo in stock. Yeah I noticed you even paid under their marked price since you bought all 3 cases you jackwagon. Lemme guess, you own a small local gun store and are marking it up right? That's the "jackwad hoarder" that is responsible for $21 price tags for a 20 round box of 5.56.

If you were a "prepper" you would have been buying slowly for years.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:11 PM
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Hoarding is a personality disorder, Im not crazy and niether was Noah. The same people who watch and laugh at the "Prepper Shows" on NG are the same who "Keep up" with the Kardasians, Now Thats Crazy.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Optouter View Post
Question for Optouter: Hmm, so are “Preppers” actually just a specific type of “Hoarders,” do ya think?...
Only those Preppers that think you, "CAN NEVER BE DONE".

I was "DONE" when I ran out of storage space. If I kept going, to KEEP prepping then my "new preps" would interfere with my livable space; and at that point in time I would become a hoarder.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:31 PM
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I think of hoarders more as individuals saving things with little or no value, or possibly because they have a compulsion to stockpile items with no practical use. Such is not the case with most items board members are putting away for the future.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:39 PM
HB of CJ HB of CJ is offline
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Hoarding is not a negative word. It simply means to gather into one place/control. To be politically correct in today's world, perhaps the word prepper is better. HB of CJ (old coot)
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:03 PM
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As long as I can find what I'm looking for in under 5 minutes, I don't believe I am a hoarder. Don't ask that to my wife though.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:59 AM
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A hoarder keeps things as part of an unfounded and never-ending notion. Preppers keep things just in case. Believe me if you don't like to shop on a Black Friday or December 24 you need to prep. I do have a few items that are storage intensive and time-sensitive that will be stocked given the first whiff of SHTF. These are items such as fresh fruit and flour. Of course if I don't have time it's still all good.

Maybe the anti-preppers like to go to the big box early come Black Friday- including the Sawdust Depot (IKEA).
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:11 AM
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Default Are you kidding me?

Preppers tend to want to get so much stuff for real reasons, they are unlikely to have the resources to get lots of weird crap.

No A and E thing for them.

Another thing as unhinged as some of the Natgeo types appear to be, they are way more rational than those hoarders on A & E.

And I can stand (most often like) preppers.

The thought that I get when I run across those hoarders is to move away.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:14 AM
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Everything I have I can and will use. In fact we opened a #10 can of potato soup tonight and made supper. I love the stuff.

So from buckets of grain and grain mixes,,,all sorts of foods in buckets and #10 cans these are things we use already coupled with hunting and grocery shopping, drying and wet canning.

Our generator I use. Lanterns... Sleeping bags, guns..tools, radios etc are of use and get used.

I invest in metals like others invest in stocks. Are stock portfolios hoards? If not, why not if one could say metal was hoarding? Are Mormons with sister-wives hording women? Is the couple with four cars hoarding? How about the people with fully stocked wine cellars..are they hoarding?

I don't think it is anyone's business how much of anything anyone has. I think someone is playing mind games here.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 Bears View Post
Everything I have I can and will use. In fact we opened a #10 can of potato soup tonight and made supper. I love the stuff.

So from buckets of grain and grain mixes,,,all sorts of foods in buckets and #10 cans these are things we use already coupled with hunting and grocery shopping, drying and wet canning.

Our generator I use. Lanterns... Sleeping bags, guns..tools, radios etc are of use and get used.

I invest in metals like others invest in stocks. Are stock portfolios hoards? If not, why not if one could say metal was hoarding? Are Mormons with sister-wives hording women? Is the couple with four cars hoarding? How about the people with fully stocked wine cellars..are they hoarding?

I don't think it is anyone's business how much of anything anyone has. I think someone is playing mind games here.
No one's business, yes.

Rational? Absolutely.

You reminded me that I need to get more stuff.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprig View Post
Only those Preppers that think you, "CAN NEVER BE DONE".

I was "DONE" when I ran out of storage space. If I kept going, to KEEP prepping then my "new preps" would interfere with my livable space; and at that point in time I would become a hoarder.
Funny you should say that. I went and bought a PVC shelf rack today because I ran out of space. We were done a month ago but had no shelves left to handle our final cases of dehydrated and freeze dried food sitting behind me in my office.. the main bunch of stuff in a basement. (Yes we have a dehumidifier.)

We are done. We have enough for 4-6 years except in coconut oil which we cycle through and can only be about 2yrs out.

I look at that stuff and I think...WOW,, what one can accomplish in 5+yrs dedicated to one thing. It is as good as it is going to get.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:29 AM
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Very well written Optouter. I have said the same thing many times but not nearly as well as you. As for being too long? It was perfect.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:37 AM
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Not hoarders. But our prepping does improve the economy (i.e., the more we prepare, the more we buy, the more people that have jobs, and the more taxes generated for our "frugally-spending" government). And when the government is taking care of everyone who was irresponsible and had not prepared, they don't have to worry about us. Its a win-win. The yo-yos that call us hoarders can't see the big picture for their own opinion.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:54 AM
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A hoarder's house:


A prepper's house:


I don't see the similarity.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Last week a mother with two girls were going door to door in my neighborhood asking for food donations to the local church's food pantry. I know this church and know it does have not only a pantry
There are foods I buy on sale and with a coupon that I will never eat all of... unless prices skyrocket or available food is limited. Those items I donate a month or two before they are set to expire.

I doesn't hurt anyone that the PB or Jelly I donate has sat in my food preps for 12-18 months before getting donated. They will be gone almost as soon as they are unpacked.
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