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Old 03-23-2012, 01:03 AM
mainah976 mainah976 is offline
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Default How many sand bags to stop a rifle caliber



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Hey every one just wondering if anyone has shot into sand bags to see how many bags it takes to stop a rifle round lets say 30/06. 06 is what most people have as there most powerful rifle. Just curious how deep I gota stack bags to be Safe if things go to hell. Thanks for any advice.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:09 AM
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there are too many factors to give a catch -all answer, what type of soil are you going to be using
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:10 AM
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Also, how many rounds do you intend to be stopping?
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:12 AM
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Box Of Truth is what you're looking for.

www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm

In the above link, they answer that question using a variety of calibers.

In general, nothing made it more than about 6" into sand with their testing.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:15 AM
mainah976 mainah976 is offline
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Just plain old sand from the beach. Lets say range is within 10 yards. I have a sand pit less them a mile from my home and just got about 200 grain bags for free from a freind of mine
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:30 AM
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Any reason you are not testing it yourself? But I would guess one row would stop, most bullets your going to have to angle them though from the bottom up so the lower you are the safer you will be.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:49 AM
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The Army's Soldier's Manual of Common Tasks, STP 21-1-SMCT Level 1, required 18 inches of earth between you and the enemy when constructing a fighting position. That might be a place to start.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:48 AM
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My last job was in a ballistics lab and I shot a .50 BMG into a trash can filled with sand from about 30 feet away and it didn't even come close to making it out.

The inside of the trash can was line with thin rubber to keep the sand from spilling out because the plastic trash can was pretty wrecked.


Oh yeah and I shot hundreds of rounds into the trash can. So I would feel very safe behind that much sand.


(Also a 5.56 round will "usually" penetrate more than a 30-06 or .308 round. The 5.56 has a smaller impact area but is moving much faster. Just a thought.)
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
Box Of Truth is what you're looking for.

www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm

In the above link, they answer that question using a variety of calibers.

In general, nothing made it more than about 6" into sand with their testing.
Beat me to it.

Al
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike357 View Post
My last job was in a ballistics lab and I shot a .50 BMG into a trash can filled with sand from about 30 feet away and it didn't even come close to making it out.

The inside of the trash can was line with thin rubber to keep the sand from spilling out because the plastic trash can was pretty wrecked.


Oh yeah and I shot hundreds of rounds into the trash can. So I would feel very safe behind that much sand.


(Also a 5.56 round will "usually" penetrate more than a 30-06 or .308 round. The 5.56 has a smaller impact area but is moving much faster. Just a thought.)
So the OP should use rubber lined trash cans instead?
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:09 PM
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It's not the bullets that I would fear making way through sand.... It's arrows/bolts. Extreme penetration, especially from crossbows.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:25 PM
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As a kid I shot a heck of a lot 30-06 armor piercing gi ammo. I even hand loaded some of the bullets. Best preformance was obtained after several hundred yards of travel. The bullet is stabilized in its rotational orbit. They will not shoot threw the skinny part of a railroad track. 1970's GI issue sand bags aren't enough on the narrow side but from the long side your good to go for many hits until the sand leaks away. As a side note I was working up loads for cast 540gr in my 458. Those bullets would drive almost 5 ft into undisturbed earth. They would shoot threw the skinny part of railroad track. You should plan for at least two layers with off set seams.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:36 PM
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If you google gabion, hesco barrier or hesco bastion, you get an idea of the size the military currently uses for earthen barriers. Sandbags rot, leak, and when they're shot, leak out and weaken. They do the trick though, Lord knows I've filled enough of them!
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:41 PM
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Are you planning on getting shot at from only one direction?
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:53 PM
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Sand tubes work well and are easier to move than full sized bags, especially if you need to quickly patch a breach.
(designed for flood control)

Give yourself a gap from what you are trying to protect so you can fill in from behind.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike357 View Post

(Also a 5.56 round will "usually" penetrate more than a 30-06 or .308 round. The 5.56 has a smaller impact area but is moving much faster. Just a thought.)
???

The 5.56 dumps its energy very quickly. Only under very rare circumstances will the 5.56 out penetrate the 30-06 and .308.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemeyer007 View Post
As a side note I was working up loads for cast 540gr in my 458. Those bullets would drive almost 5 ft into undisturbed earth.
I very much doubt a 458 will penetrate anything near 60" of soil unless that earth is fluffy peat moss. If it could penetrate even 30" of sand let alone 18" I would be very shocked.


This is a good page on penetration of various many military calibers and numerous barriers. This includes "increased" penetration at longer distances on some rounds.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-06-11/ch7.htm
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:03 PM
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Just reviewed that Box of Truth link, and it got me thinking ...

you could frame a false wall up to say 4' high around the entire inside of your house, or maybe just a safe room large enough for everyone to fit into. Frame it with 6" studs attached to your existing walls. Fix 8'x4' sheets of drywall to those, line it with a dense weave material so when the rounds come through it sort of congeals back together to keep the sand from spilling out too much. Fill it with sand, then nail a top board all the way around it like a rail. Decorate it with some moulding, mud, sand and paint it, and it'll look like you have a 6" plate shelf running at 4' high all around the room. Wife might even think its pretty, and look at all that shelf space!

Shots fired, get below the 4' level. You'll lose a few sq feet of interior dimension, sure.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainah976 View Post
Hey every one just wondering if anyone has shot into sand bags to see how many bags it takes to stop a rifle round lets say 30/06. 06 is what most people have as there most powerful rifle. Just curious how deep I gota stack bags to be Safe if things go to hell. Thanks for any advice.
WHEN not if.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChapNelson View Post
Just reviewed that Box of Truth link, and it got me thinking ...

you could frame a false wall up to say 4' high around the entire inside of your house, or maybe just a safe room large enough for everyone to fit into. Frame it with 6" studs attached to your existing walls. Fix 8'x4' sheets of drywall to those, line it with a dense weave material so when the rounds come through it sort of congeals back together to keep the sand from spilling out too much. Fill it with sand, then nail a top board all the way around it like a rail. Decorate it with some moulding, mud, sand and paint it, and it'll look like you have a 6" plate shelf running at 4' high all around the room. Wife might even think its pretty, and look at all that shelf space!

Shots fired, get below the 4' level. You'll lose a few sq feet of interior dimension, sure.
A external brick knee wall with a sand sandwich would be easier, look normal, and improve whole house defense.. while improving home value.
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