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View Poll Results: SHTF - Which do you grab?
AR15 / M16 type system 136 67.33%
AK-47 or similar system 35 17.33%
M14 type system 31 15.35%
Voters: 202. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-10-2019, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
Swiss I am telling YA Brother , I REALLY LOVE my 582 series Mini-14 , it is like that rifle was custom built for me. JMHO and S/FI!
But will it stop the bootlicking socialist left, when they come to take your freedom?



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Old 07-10-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I'm 37 dude, I was on boot leave when 9/11 happened.
So is John Lovell, and I dont hear him or many many other younger combat vets I know and or follow saying the 556 wont get the job done.

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Old 07-10-2019, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Marlin94 View Post
So is John Lovell, and I dont hear him or many many other younger combat vets I know and or follow saying the 556 wont get the job done.

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That may be true, but I've heard many Vietnam era vets have pretty strong emotions about the legendary M16 and the 5.56x45mm NATO.



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Old 07-10-2019, 11:07 PM
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Only a handful of folks have mentioned this, but, not listed and my choice would be a 10/22 and a brick of 500 rds.

Where as my AR's are sexy, the ammo is heavy.

I'm a firm believer in traveling light.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Fizbin View Post
Only a handful of folks have mentioned this, but, not listed and my choice would be a 10/22 and a brick of 500 rds.

Where as my AR's are sexy, the ammo is heavy.

I'm a firm believer in traveling light.
I have an AR 7 survival rifle with a brick of .22 in my BOB....along with a battle pack of 5.56 for my AR15.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Marlin94 View Post
So is John Lovell, and I dont hear him or many many other younger combat vets I know and or follow saying the 556 wont get the job done.

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So.... First you discount me because your mistaken about my age..... Do I I need to QUOTE you about "none of the younger vets" bit?

Then when your proven wrong you say "other" younger vets don't have an issue....


Dude, really. Give up while your behind.


Also, go back and read:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
.




As I have said before: I'm NOT saying that 556 'can't ' even setting aside my first hand experiences we historically have people with equal skills and training saying both "it worked for me" AND "It didn't work for me"
So a reasonable person must postulate that it MAY work, but not that it WILL.
"May work" won't cut it with MY 'life support equipment"
Not my first aid, not my oxygen tanks, and not my ammo.

Basically: you want to trust it... Feel free, you won't be alone.

Me, I won't, and I won't be alone either.

!?!


D


Also please note:
I 'm here. When backed up by .308 beltfeds, .50's, AT4's. Morters, CAS, tanks, 20 mm's, 40mm's, grenades, etc.... It 'got the job done '
(Just in a suboptimal manner)

If you have all of that available....
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
So.... First you discount me because your mistaken about my age..... Do I I need to QUOTE you about "none of the younger vets" bit?



Then when your proven wrong you say "other" younger vets don't have an issue....





Dude, really. Give up while your behind.





Also, go back and read:



D





Also please note:

I 'm here. When backed up by .308 beltfeds, .50's, AT4's. Morters, CAS, tanks, 20 mm's, 40mm's, grenades, etc.... It 'got the job done '

(Just in a suboptimal manner)



If you have all of that available....
Dude excuse me for thinking you were a Nam vets but honestly your post reads like someone from that generation. I mean 5 to 7 556 = 1 308? Common man it sounds like the next words out of your are going to be "I carry a 45 because shooting twice is dumb" or some other such nonsense.

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Old 07-11-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
But will it stop the bootlicking socialist left, when they come to take your freedom?



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I have a few of those as well and they are great rifles too and I do know how to use the very effectively I am not anti-M-4 at all I have a few and they are great weapons "shiite muslim" I carried either the A-2 or M-4 for 20 years , its just something about that MINI-14 that speaks to my soul , just like my 1911. Great post by the way Brother.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 7.5x55 Swiss View Post
I know this is sort of off topic but I could dig a 5.56 or 7.62x39 Garand in the Mini-14 style package. A compact, lighter weight rifle with lighter ammo than a .30-06 Garand. I could see it being a handy truck gun, not so sure it'd make a good fighting rifle with the other platforms on the market but I'd buy one.
Over the years, Ruger has built this design in 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.8 spc, and 44 mag. I choose the Mini-30 in 7.62x39 which has always performed great for me, but the 6.8 spc is supposedly the best of the lot. After I owned a Mini-30 a few yrs, I got rid of my AR-15.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Marlin94 View Post
Dude excuse me for thinking you were a Nam vets but honestly your post reads like someone from that generation. I mean 5 to 7 556 = 1 308? Common man it sounds like the next words out of your are going to be "I carry a 45 because shooting twice is dumb" or some other such nonsense.

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NOT to interject myself into this one but...
YES, you do carry a .45 because having to shoot twice is DUMB.
I was a street cop for a very long time in a very violent city. I PERSONALLY would respond to well over 100 shootings a year.
I have seen people shot with everything from .22shorts to 12Ga shotgun slugs.

Here is what ACTUAL FIELD EXPERIENCE has proven time and time again.
"IF THEY WERE SHOT WITH A .4 THEY ARE ON THE FLOOR"

Meaning not just a .45 but the .40S&W 41mag, 44mag etc
NOT SAYING instant lethality, far from it, just saying all the fight is gone and they are just laying there waiting for help.

Conversely I have had to wrestle a guy who took 5 9mms through the upper torso who wanted to go out and find and kill the guy who shot him.

A sgt. buddy in a connecting jurisdiction shot a guy 5 times inside the 8 ring at 20 feet with a .357 and the guy dropped his gun turned and walked back into his house. While EST was being summoned the guy went and laid down because "It hurt" 20 minutes later the guy walks back out and gives up because "It still hurt." I asked him later why he only shot 5 when the gun holds 6. He said "I kept shooting the guy and he wasn't going down, I figured if he kept on coming I would save the last one for myself" (cop humor is an acquired taste.) In reality he had no reason why he didn't use the 6 he just stopped at 5.


It was nothing for folks who were shot with sub .4 calibers to be up and mobile and capable of doing harm to others. NOw there were also a bunch who were DRT with sub .4s but there was no comparison when it came to STOPPING the action. .4s put people down.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I say I counted the bullet holes....


...you say hypothetical.

You must not be using Webster's Dictionary.
My apologies, "anecdotal" is more appropriate than There's more to just holes in bodies...but at least you and your team can hit the target, I'll give you credit for that Again, far too many factors...

I won't defend the 5.56 as the perfect cartridge, but there are equally just as many accounts of positive terminal effectiveness as there are against it. My point stands, hit your target in the A-zones for best terminal effectiveness, but nothing is magical or guaranteed and the shooter is far more important than the caliber or platform.



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Old 07-11-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
NOT to interject myself into this one but...

YES, you do carry a .45 because having to shoot twice is DUMB.

I was a street cop for a very long time in a very violent city. I PERSONALLY would respond to well over 100 shootings a year.

I have seen people shot with everything from .22shorts to 12Ga shotgun slugs.



Here is what ACTUAL FIELD EXPERIENCE has proven time and time again.

"IF THEY WERE SHOT WITH A .4 THEY ARE ON THE FLOOR"



Meaning not just a .45 but the .40S&W 41mag, 44mag etc

NOT SAYING instant lethality, far from it, just saying all the fight is gone and they are just laying there waiting for help.



Conversely I have had to wrestle a guy who took 5 9mms through the upper torso who wanted to go out and find and kill the guy who shot him.



A sgt. buddy in a connecting jurisdiction shot a guy 5 times inside the 8 ring at 20 feet with a .357 and the guy dropped his gun turned and walked back into his house. While EST was being summoned the guy went and laid down because "It hurt" 20 minutes later the guy walks back out and gives up because "It still hurt." I asked him later why he only shot 5 when the gun holds 6. He said "I kept shooting the guy and he wasn't going down, I figured if he kept on coming I would save the last one for myself" (cop humor is an acquired taste.) In reality he had no reason why he didn't use the 6 he just stopped at 5.





It was nothing for folks who were shot with sub .4 calibers to be up and mobile and capable of doing harm to others. NOw there were also a bunch who were DRT with sub .4s but there was no comparison when it came to STOPPING the action. .4s put people down.
Holly Fudlore batman. This has been rehashed to death and your claims are unfounded and do not agree with FBI statistics and the entire reason they switched back to 9mm. We can all find anecdotal evidence to support our weapons choices but in the end look to the experts.

Here is a cool story about how 1 cop shot a guy over 10 times with a 45 and the guys was still fighting. He now carries 145 rounds of 9mm.

https://www.policeone.com/police-her...mo-on-the-job/

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Old 07-11-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
My apologies, "anecdotal" is more appropriate than


eye rolling or not.... THAT no I have no issue with.


There's more to just holes in bodies...but at least you and your team can hit the target, I'll give you credit for that Again, far too many factors...

I won't defend the 5.56 as the perfect cartridge, but there are equally just as many accounts of positive terminal effectiveness as there are against it. didn't I say that?

My point stands, hit your target in the A-zones for best terminal effectiveness, but nothing is magical or guaranteed and the shooter is far more important than the caliber or platform.




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Old 07-11-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Marlin94 View Post
Dude excuse me for thinking you were a Nam vets but honestly your post reads like someone from that generation.
THAT would be your problem then. You've had 2 'recent vets' in the last day or so say what you said you didn't see.... You ignored one and dismissed me. (Issue seems to be you)



I mean 5 to 7 556 = 1 308?

I can't help what happened.
(Gee, it's almost like those other people who shot people knew what they were talking about!!!!)



Common man it sounds like the next words out of your are going to be "I carry a 45 because shooting twice is dumb" or some other such nonsense.

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Nope, I started weaver/Cooper/1911.
Went to isosceles, Glocks in 9mm...

Now, anecdotal: one of our assaultmen shot a haji 13 times (with an M9) to get him to stay down (first string of 5 or 6 into the torso, second string of 5 or 6 in the torso, (11 total) and 2 into the head.)
After that I was VERY CAREFUL to ONLY carry premium 9mms HP's, but I carried 9mms for years.

After moving to the Ozarks and having a bear eat my bees I switched to .40, but that's neither here nor there, and I'll carry .9mm in the city.

Sorry I don't fit your stereotypes that you are prepared to ignore and dismiss... Your close, no doubt you can manage if you work at it!

As I said: is how it is, whether you like it or not. Won't impact me either way.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
A .25 is lethal....


doesn't help if your attacker Dies of sepsis 2 weeks after he beats your face in.


The STOP is what's important.

Sure, but the .25 is not one of the calibers being discussed and between the three main calibers being discussed (5.56/7.62x39 and 7.62x51) a solid hit from any one of them will more than likely stop the attack in it's tracks. Unless your assailant is hopped up on drugs and alcohol, in which case you may have to weight them down with lead before they stop.


The point being in a discussion such as this it's easy to loose sight of just how deadly they all are.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:06 AM
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Sure, but the .25 is not one of the calibers being discussed and between the three main calibers being discussed (5.56/7.62x39 and 7.62x51) a solid hit from any one of them will more than likely stop the attack in it's tracks.
Disagree.


.25 was extreme example to make the point




Unless your assailant is hopped up on drugs and alcohol, in which case you may have to weight them down with lead before they stop.


The point being in a discussion such as this it's easy to loose sight of just how deadly they all are.
Again with the deadly...

What matters is the STOP!
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
I have a few of those as well and they are great rifles too and I do know how to use the very effectively I am not anti-M-4 at all I have a few and they are great weapons "shiite muslim" I carried either the A-2 or M-4 for 20 years , its just something about that MINI-14 that speaks to my soul , just like my 1911. Great post by the way Brother.
1911 you say

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Old 07-11-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Again with the deadly...

What matters is the STOP!

I agree the point is to stop the attack. Semantics aside, the end results are often the same. You don't like the word deadly fine, then how about lethal?
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter View Post
I agree the point is to stop the attack. Semantics aside, the end results are often the same. You don't like the word deadly fine, then how about lethal?
(Again) I never said 556 wasn't deadly or lethal.
Just that it fails to stop the threat in a timely manner.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter View Post
I agree the point is to stop the attack. Semantics aside, the end results are often the same. You don't like the word deadly fine, then how about lethal?
In his defense,

Lethal is not the same as a stop, as he means it.

This is why vets use the term "stopping power" often. It's a thing.

Lethal doesn't imply how long it takes for the event to actually produce death. Cancer can be lethal.

When a vet says "not enough stopping power" he means the target doesn't go down soon enough, often enough, with the round in question. The target doesn't have to die, they need to collapse, and at minimum, be completely discouraged to resist or be aggressive further.



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