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Old 07-17-2019, 07:17 PM
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Are they good folk? Can we get along? Do they know anything about a Weapon? Any survival knowledge, or skills (not a Biggie) .. how Lazy Bones are they? Good with there hands or are the brain where can i put them into doing? Are they XYZ Family or Friends?? (Ive some friends like family i would take in a Second, and i could use all there help in different ways) but if a Stranger came, how honest are they?? I dont want them sneakin stuff and takin my ammo or trying to cheat with a married mans wife..
( if i cant trust you, ya @$$ is gone. Though i wont say they Might be shot for knowing too much.) Quarantine them, get to work with and know them and ease them in.
Another thing is Housing.. where they staying? Not with me.. is there a Spot to put them? I may shoot that Pedophile up the Road who messed with under aged kids, including even his own and put them in his place.
Do they have there own Equipment? Had they ever hunted or Fished, or Served in Military, Swat, Fire dept, Forestry. . Good skills one could utilize. Are they bout them? If they all about them they need to go, cause they wont work well with everyone.
Its okay to be Independent and all that but think of others ..
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dread11 View Post
I really like your list. Mine would be almost the same except I would switch your #6 for #2.
Yeah, I might switch it myself, but for #5. Ya can always eat tasteless food and stay alive, but a bullet wound or simple broken bone would be a lot more handleable with some expertise....
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hoodoo View Post
I see we're all pretty much on the same page as: good personality/decent folk/common sense/honesty/integrity/etc....being the most important values.

As Aerindel said, you can teach the skills to the right person. That's how I've always hired employees.....I'd rather have a beginner carpenter I can bring along my own way, than some cocky hotshot who is actually very good but has an attitude problem...he'll destroy a good company really quickly.

But beyond personality and character, what are the most important skills? Is it different for all or should we be looking to fill our groups with certain skillsets?
There are so many skills. It's just the kind of stuff we talk about on the boards all the time--- "What should I study?" And it's situation-dependent.

If the enemy is a marauding army of Mexicans who have organized pretty well, then maybe the interpreter starts to look like the guy we should be keeping in a room with walls lined with AR500, and not someone else who's some kind of academic star.

Or if we're fighting a very demanding war where we have to be mechanized, then the auto mechanics may be the guys we need to simply keep our heads above water. As nice as it would be to save lots of medical specialists, they may be for something that's so far in the future, compared to our immediate needs, that supporting them or defending them starts to show itself up as frivolous.
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:07 PM
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NOT a hijack question,

But, a person you barely know except maybe by reputation, through your military career or LE or just garden variety gossip in the coffee shop about this highly decorated combat vet who moved into the area. Ex- green beret ..Never seems to have friends, never seen with anyone. Everyone seems to know the rumors about the high numbers of kills the guy got over in the sand box in all manor of ways, from long range sniping to slitting throats.. Maybe a little damaged from the experience.

SHows up at your door because he has heard rumors about you and how you are "prepared". He says he will fight for you, showed up with several guns and a bunch of ammo in his highly modified for off-road Jeep and not much else.

Does he qualify to get in the door or do you move him down the road because he is a big unknown?

Some folks have made fair argument against the guy for various reasons...

NOW...

REGARDING ...THIS GUY...

Does it make any difference that the reason everyone knows something about him was because of embedded journalists and local coverage later about the awards the former small town soldier received. So he was not a talker... everyone else was?

That is the ONLY thing that has changed.
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:18 PM
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As far as what my response was, it doesn't matter at all. All that matters is how I feel about him when we cross paths. I trust my gut and never have doubted nor regretted my take on another man, after looking him squarely in the eyes.

Also, rewards don't mean jack to me and are largely political, and most people who served with me share that opinion, so that's not relevant to me at all.



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Old 07-17-2019, 09:18 PM
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Thanks for the shout out hoodoo...

To your original question, everyone has their own list based on their needs, requirements and ability to,,, manage their list in a real world scenario.

1. You have good attitude, while this is important it would not be my number one item. Number 1 means to me, "the most important and 100% fully required without "settling". For me this trait would be Trustworthiness and Loyalty. If a dude or chick has a freakin terrible atrocious attitude but is willing to die for ANY member of the group in; battle, starvation, risk of disease, the elements,,, that's the person who is like gold. Many times, as in business, skills can be taught and learned, traits 'generally' can not be.

2. I'm thinking of another trait for #2. This once again is based on peoples behavior which I see at work with my employees. The very best employees I have ever had fall into category #1 above and #2. Strong work ethic, not lazy, always looking for something else to do once they have accomplished a specific task. These people (employees) are worth silver.

3. Now we bounce over to skills. Weapon and combat skills. You can be great at shooting at a piece of paper at the indoor range but can you clear a house or wash, hit a moving target, find and move to cover/concealment, fight, grapple, know when to fall back and warn, know your limitations.

4. Medical; triage, field trauma, ER, infection, child delivery. I feel your #4 fit & healthy would be included in this. Whereas someone may not be fit and healthy a medical pro can help them get there with diet and/or treatment. Medical would also be a very very hard skill to find someone with, so whether you would be an MD, Veterinarian, RN, or dentist, it wouldn't matter.

5. I would say your #3 is my #5. So, someone who lives in the country and can fix their own tractor, truck, swap out a well pump, pvc work, build a lean to, run AC and DC wire, build out an electrical panel, work with waste water, build a campfire from 1 match or start with a strike stick, fell a tree, split wood, know how to manage a wood burning stove, I could go on.

Just a funny note, your top 5 are virtually what every non-lazy person has/is that lives in a rural area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoo View Post
The thread by Fizbin about which family personnel would be welcome at your compound got me thinking.....

I'm sure there must have been discussion on this but it might be good to revisit based on that other thread...

What skills/traits would be most welcome? We already discussed which would be most unwelcome, so what would you value most in recruiting outsiders, and which might persuade you for instance, to let in someone that showed up empty -handed but maybe had medical skills?

Here's my short - list, but I'm more interested in seeing what the wisdom of the group (wait, is that an oxymoron?:-) comes up with....Let's keep it to 5, will make up think more...

#1 - Good attitude - Nice/friendly/positive
This will be of paramount import during a crisis
#2 - Weapons Skills -
Primarily firearms, but hand-to-hand skills and blade work as well
#3 - Handy -
Construction/Mechanical skills, building things, fixing engines
#4 - Fit and healthy -
Obvious reasons
#5 - Food -
Cooking/canning/gardening

My #6 would be medical skills, but I said 5........
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
NOT a hijack question,

But, a person you barely know except maybe by reputation, through your military career or LE or just garden variety gossip in the coffee shop about this highly decorated combat vet who moved into the area. Ex- green beret ..Never seems to have friends, never seen with anyone. Everyone seems to know the rumors about the high numbers of kills the guy got over in the sand box in all manor of ways, from long range sniping to slitting throats.. Maybe a little damaged from the experience.

SHows up at your door because he has heard rumors about you and how you are "prepared". He says he will fight for you, showed up with several guns and a bunch of ammo in his highly modified for off-road Jeep and not much else.

Does he qualify to get in the door or do you move him down the road because he is a big unknown?
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Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
As far as what my response was, it doesn't matter at all. All that matters is how I feel about him when we cross paths. I trust my gut and never have doubted nor regretted my take on another man, after looking him squarely in the eyes.

Also, rewards don't mean jack to me and are largely political, and most people who served with me share that opinion, so that's not relevant to me at all.



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Most of the so guys I've met have been generous with skills, teaching others, helping others, leading when necessary, and team players when necessary. Good leaders, by definition, are also good followers and team players. Understanding how so work, crosstraining, capabilities, etc., if my gut isn't saying "No," so long as taking him in won't adversely affect my family, and he meets the 5 criteria I put in my answer to the original question, he [probably] gets in. Aside from his tactical and technical knowledge and skills, his presence alone could deter a lot of raiders/other unfriendlies from doing unfriendly **** to us. One thing I would ask is why he picked us. His answer could give a lot of information about how badly OPSEC has been damaged/destroyed, or at least what the general perception about us is, so we could be ready for more specific threats. If it's TEOTWAWKI, and my gut says "No," he's treated like anyone else that could screw up OPSEC (more than it evidently has been already) or would be a threat
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Old 07-18-2019, 01:03 AM
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Most of the so guys I've met have been generous with skills, teaching others, helping others, leading when necessary, and team players when necessary. Good leaders, by definition, are also good followers and team players. Understanding how so work, crosstraining, capabilities, etc., if my gut isn't saying "No," so long as taking him in won't adversely affect my family, and he meets the 5 criteria I put in my answer to the original question, he [probably] gets in. Aside from his tactical and technical knowledge and skills, his presence alone could deter a lot of raiders/other unfriendlies from doing unfriendly **** to us. One thing I would ask is why he picked us. His answer could give a lot of information about how badly OPSEC has been damaged/destroyed, or at least what the general perception about us is, so we could be ready for more specific threats. If it's TEOTWAWKI, and my gut says "No," he's treated like anyone else that could screw up OPSEC (more than it evidently has been already) or would be a threat
Another factor that I think people not from my community don't understand, is that yes, we are generally alpha and like or are confident being in charge, but that doesn't mean we don't know how, or when to follow.

Just because I may have more experience, or training, or whatever, doesn't mean I'm going to try and take over. I have no problem following orders. The last thing I would want to do as an outsider in such a scenario is disrupt the order of things or create unnecessary drama or mistrust.

Like I've said elsewhere, in training and school, we take turns leading in various roles. A true student of war can both take a rifleman role, and a leadership role, etc.

And those who are incapable of following, are major warning flags.



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Old 07-18-2019, 04:18 AM
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And those who are incapable of following, are major warning flags.
Indeed. But those incapable of leading are a problem as well. Its tempting just to look for followers who will never pose a threat to 'your' power. But those kind of people can be even worse than rival. Beware the Yes Man.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
Some folks have made fair argument against the guy for various reasons...

NOW...

REGARDING ...THIS GUY...

Does it make any difference that the reason everyone knows something about him was because of embedded journalists and local coverage later about the awards the former small town soldier received. So he was not a talker... everyone else was?

That is the ONLY thing that has changed.
And every character judgement is unique and independent. Like I said, I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt as a fellow "brother in arms" service member. Reputations (especially in small towns) can be a warning sign. I just know the quiet guys who don't talk much are often the real deal. As long as he's not a hot head, braggart, and can still be a part of a team with a good work ethic...welcome aboard.

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Indeed. But those incapable of leading are a problem as well. Its tempting just to look for followers who will never pose a threat to 'your' power. But those kind of people can be even worse than rival. Beware the Yes Man.
I have my leadership T-shirt, but this is another issue about character. Many here are looking from the perspective of being the leader with the rules and accepting another into the fold. What about being able to assess another leader? As ForgedInTheFlame mentioned, most veterans who've served a good deal of time have been both followers and leaders. We also know the qualities and actions of good leaders and the traits of a toxic leader who can be divisive and destructive.

Even alpha males and females who have served understand "unity of command"; they have the tact to voice their opinions without sounding insubordinate and can be affective at sharing skills/knowledge without threatening a competent leader. likewise, a quality leader earns their reputation by incorporating a team, listening and leveraging experience/skill/knowledge, while still balancing a democratic process on some priorities yet still able to be dictatorial on more severe, time sensitive decisions. The quality leadership traits are well known; putting them into practice in a dynamic group environment is always the challenge. What I've always valued down to the lowest ranking member is feedback, opinions, and viewpoints..."yes men/women" will only highlight your weaknesses and areas of limited experience/skill/knowledge.

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Old 07-18-2019, 08:29 AM
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You guys got it backwards man!
All this "do gooder" stuff is fine when everything's going well but when the SHTF??

I want the boldest, daring, rotten, sneaky, underhanded people I can find on MY side!

That's my five.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:25 AM
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Truth is, genuine trust is hard to build and in bad situations it would be an unnecessary risk to take on people that I did not already know and trust. Their utility would have to exceed a nearly worst-case failure of trust scenario plus their upkeep for me to even consider it. And I struggle to think of a case where that would be true.

There's fairly little most modern doctors could really do for you without access to modern medicine and equipment. If get a serious sickness that can't be fixed with bed-rest, being well-fed, fortified with vitamins, and OTC meds or antibiotics you may have prepped, you are probably not going to get any additional help from a doctor. Mostly the same case for a nurse. They'll both have some practical skills but they're mostly diagnostic. They'd have real utility, and if they were trusted family I'd be very happy to have them. But as a stranger it's just not good enough.

The only other types of professionals I can think of that it would even enter into the calculus would be engineer/trade types, someone who knew how to work on motors/engines, repair electronics, compressors, etc with makeshift equipment. Even then, it depend on how much they could *really do* without a full working workshop.

Now maybe others disagree and think they will be able to bring in all the experts to run their domain post-shtf. Maybe. For me it's too big a risk as I mentioned in the "personnel" thread from the other day. The more people you have in your group that you cannot trust and who do not respect you, the greater chance of losing control.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:52 AM
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You guys got it backwards man!
All this "do gooder" stuff is fine when everything's going well but when the SHTF??

I want the boldest, daring, rotten, sneaky, underhanded people I can find on MY side!

That's my five.
GOOD people for a fight

BUT

the boldest, daring, rotten, sneaky, underhanded people also are that way for a reason and will have no qualms taking over by any means required, and if that means wiping out your whole group and you...

spin the wheel and take your chances.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:56 AM
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Most instances, very true. The folks on my team are all my best friends. We know we can trust each other and we know our cross over skill sets.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:07 AM
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So, having said all of this, how does one (i.e. me) go about attracting these people? I had a pretty good group set up, and then 2 of the couples moved out of CA to AZ. I certainly don't blame them, but it put a hitch in my get-a-long for sure. Now it's just me and my sons (I can certainly trust them and they are fairly handy, but not gun guys) and possibly ex Ranger friend. I mean you can hardly advertise on Craigslist for this kinda stuff........
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:40 AM
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My short list?
#1, attitude.
#2, mindset.
#3, fitness.
#4, skillset. My requirements here will probably be somewhat different than most as my primary bug out location covers many square miles, most of it rugged, steep, heavily forested or above tree line rock. I have more than enough climbing gear for a few folks but they'll need at least rudimentary rope and climbing skills.

Primitive skillset too. Making charcoal for a water filter, fire making, wood working, trapping, fishing and hunting.

Last, #5?? Faith. God runs EVERYTHING up there.
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Old 07-18-2019, 01:21 PM
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….
SHows up at your door because he has heard rumors about you and how you are "prepared". He says he will fight for you, showed up with several guns and a bunch of ammo in his highly modified for off-road Jeep and not much else.

...
Most is hearsay from town gossip. These are facts.

He preps guns and ammo but not much else; not a good long term planner. He's a good mechanic because he owns a jeep. He's poor at personal finances because he owns a highly modified off-road Jeep and not much else. He's been reading people the neighborhood without getting to know them very well.

He's more than likely there looking for gas since he only gets around 10 mpg.



I'm a quiet guy who reads people, so I get the personality. I'm no ex-special forces anything, but I've gutted a lot of animals so I'm not squeamish. I've owned a Jeep in the past and will in the future. They take some money and upkeep if you off-road with them. I'm better at financial planning and would come pulling a trailer of food, gas, ammo, guns, tools, camping supplies, water, etc.

I already know the people in my circle of trust. Few are relatives.
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:01 PM
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GOOD people for a fight

BUT

the boldest, daring, rotten, sneaky, underhanded people also are that way for a reason and will have no qualms taking over by any means required, and if that means wiping out your whole group and you...

spin the wheel and take your chances.
That's true--- for many people, their own teams will end up being one of their worst problems. And most of us likely don't have a good enough perspective of it, because up to now, we've been living a safe and serene American lifestyle.

It may even be a totally legit, affluent, polo shirt and slacks wearing guy who starts turning everyone against you when your back is turned, for no better reason that when he sees you with your beard and all your tac gear (or however you look) he automatically thinks "servant" and not "master." He's just been raised to absolutely, unwaveringly believe that only he and a few other people from his rung are ok, and that everyone else is totally lousy. Some guy who didn't prep, and doesn't haven't a clue... He could be looking at any puddle or bucket of water, and the word "cholera" would never go through his mind. Yet that's who's trying to unseat you.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:52 PM
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1. They ask for help
2. They ask for protection
3. They are fleeing persecution by an evil force.
4. They are not guilty of human rights abuses
5. They want to be a contributing member of society.

What do you mean this wasn't a refugee question?

It is just common sense to help people how you can in any given situation. We all die eventually anyway. Life is about what you bring into the world not how long you live.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:17 PM
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1. They ask for help
2. They ask for protection
3. They are fleeing persecution by an evil force.
4. They are not guilty of human rights abuses
5. They want to be a contributing member of society.

What do you mean this wasn't a refugee question?

It is just common sense to help people how you can in any given situation. We all die eventually anyway. Life is about what you bring into the world not how long you live.
What the h*ll does this have to do with the original concept/question? We're not talking about the border wall here....
None of the 5 statements above are any reason, let alone good enough, for me to let someone into my family compound.
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