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Old 07-17-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
AS I expressed earlier..
YOUR stuff, YOUR home, YOUR rules.
There is NO VOTING in a dictatorship.
YOU and ONLY YOU make the BIG decisions
YOU decide the chain of command.
YOU are the only one YOU answer to.

SO
1-IF they refuse your orders OUT THEY GO
2-IF they refuse your orders OUT THEY GO
3-OUT THEY GO
4-KILL THEM.. otherwise security risk is too great..Sorry about that.
5-THEY will have to KILL YOU to change the leadership. REFER to rule #1

IT should be implicit in understanding to ANY AND ALL who would join YOUR place for survival... YOUR place, YOUR rules or GET OUT.
There is ZERO discussion on this and any that you do not authorize is mutiny and you can execute them on the spot.
Remember, a democracy is a sheep and 3 wolves voting on what is for dinner. A democracy has no place where very hard decisions are to be made by people who have neither the stomach nor the balls to make those decisions. There is a reason why the military is NOT a democracy.
but are you really prepared to do that. you're not the only one in the thread saying they'd kill their own family if they won't follow orders. in the end, if things don't go the way you assume (and people are still assuming that logic will prevail, i.e., that people will just listen to them because they "know stuff"), your options end up being "go with the flow" or "kill people, or exile them (which may be the same thing).

it seems so simple but i doubt it ends up being that simple. if you end up killing someone in your group because they won't take orders, you could easily wake up dead yourself the next day, or wake up to find a big part of the group left and absconded with critical tools and supplies.

i'm just saying, it's something to keep in mind. when we craft scenarios in our mind, we tend to gloss over certain things, or make assumptions. used to be that blood was thicker than water but it ain't always these days. i've seen many threads saying stuff like "yeah i'd let a stranger join up if he was a <insert useful professional skill here>". but that's perhaps more dangerous than people think.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinfire View Post
but are you really prepared to do that. you're not the only one in the thread saying they'd kill their own family if they won't follow orders. in the end, if things don't go the way you assume (and people are still assuming that logic will prevail, i.e., that people will just listen to them because they "know stuff"),

no, I said I WOULDN'T have to kill my family.
Family that's coming here are my mother and my 2 sisters.
My mother will try to tell me how to do everything, but I've felt with her all my life. One sister is a hunter, she will make good overwatch, but is incredibly laid back. They other will do what I say.





your options end up being "go with the flow" or "kill people, or exile them (which may be the same thing).
got others?
it seems so simple but i doubt it ends up being that simple. if you end up killing someone in your group because they won't take orders, you could easily wake up dead yourself the next day, or wake up to find a big part of the group left and absconded with critical tools and supplies.

i'm just saying, it's something to keep in mind. when we craft scenarios in our mind, we tend to gloss over certain things, or make assumptions. used to be that blood was thicker than water but it ain't always these days. i've seen many threads saying stuff like "yeah i'd let a stranger join up if he was a <insert useful professional skill here>". but that's perhaps more dangerous than people think.
Got positive comments vs negative?
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:01 PM
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Got positive comments vs negative?
Pretty sure I wasn't talking about you.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:36 PM
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If they are democrats they don't get invited. If they are lazy, they don't get invited. If they were on welfare, they don't get invited.
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:28 PM
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Pretty sure I wasn't talking about you.
A couple of the comments seemed like it, but regardless:

Do you have any constrictive suggestions?
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinfire View Post
but are you really prepared to do that. you're not the only one in the thread saying they'd kill their own family if they won't follow orders. in the end, if things don't go the way you assume (and people are still assuming that logic will prevail, i.e., that people will just listen to them because they "know stuff"), your options end up being "go with the flow" or "kill people, or exile them (which may be the same thing).

it seems so simple but i doubt it ends up being that simple. if you end up killing someone in your group because they won't take orders, you could easily wake up dead yourself the next day, or wake up to find a big part of the group left and absconded with critical tools and supplies.

i'm just saying, it's something to keep in mind. when we craft scenarios in our mind, we tend to gloss over certain things, or make assumptions. used to be that blood was thicker than water but it ain't always these days. i've seen many threads saying stuff like "yeah i'd let a stranger join up if he was a <insert useful professional skill here>". but that's perhaps more dangerous than people think.
I Was a cop for almost 30 years, over 20 doing ghetto duty.
ANYONE
coming to my house for saving will know long before hand
I am the BIG DOG on the porch deciding who comes into MY house.
and
They would know without question My house My rules and never have the slightest doubt about whether or not I would do whatever was required to take care of those under my care.

Sound hard..you bet, but I can tell you over a lifetime of potential life or death decision making no one stopped to take a vote or see if there was a consensus to be reached over stopping the threat when immediate action was required. I have faced life crisis pretty much beyond even the imagination of anyone who would be coming for shelter. Not a democracy.

Re-family, - I haven't talked to my one son in over a year because of what HIS WIFE did that caused great pain in the family. His choice is his wife apologizes to the whole family or he, she, and/or the grandkids are not welcome. There will be no reward for, or even ignoring "bad behavior"
Harsh, you bet, but what was said and done had a ripple effect that extended to a lot of family members. My house my rules.


Now if someone wants to offer something, of course I'll listen,
but that doesn't mean there will be a vote.
No, there would not be a lot of doubt about running things my way.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinfire View Post
but are you really prepared to do that. you're not the only one in the thread saying they'd kill their own family if they won't follow orders. in the end, if things don't go the way you assume (and people are still assuming that logic will prevail, i.e., that people will just listen to them because they "know stuff"), your options end up being "go with the flow" or "kill people, or exile them (which may be the same thing).
The threat is loss of OPSEC. If a family member or any member is belligerent, refusing to follow any established rules, pull their weight, sow discontent, etc. in the group...if they are just booted out, they will be the first to sell that info to anyone. I would think conditions need to be pretty severe before such considerations, but they are valid.

Any "drama" within a group will be like a cancer eating from within. That stuff has no business when trying to survive a significant SHTF and the "leadership" needs to eliminate the drama or eliminate the problem immediately.

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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
Re-family, - I haven't talked to my one son in over a year because of what HIS WIFE did that caused great pain in the family. His choice is his wife apologizes to the whole family or he, she, and/or the grandkids are not welcome. There will be no reward for, or even ignoring "bad behavior"
Harsh, you bet, but what was said and done had a ripple effect that extended to a lot of family members. My house my rules.
Ironically, we had a blow out last year with our daughter and husband. Similar non-negotiable. They need to make some significant apologies or simply stay away. It's not something I like, but what the newly married millennial couple has done to my wife, son, and in-laws was extremely unacceptable.

Who we would let through our doors or not has little to do with blood and more to do with character...

ROCK6
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Maybe you can work out a deal with "Forged in the Flame".
He is forming a security company.
Haha, hey man, still in the works.

Founding with several others, so won't just be my firm.

We still plan to start small, but I'm excited about being a SBO, even part owner.

Minority owner? Pun intended.

Sorry for going off topic guys.



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Old 07-17-2019, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
A couple of the comments seemed like it, but regardless:

Do you have any constrictive suggestions?
Was just giving some food for thought. It's a complex topic, more complex than I think people are giving it credit for, but I do not have any simple answers.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:16 PM
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Chances are it will be a non-issue, as stupid people tend to procrastinate til the last possible second before taking any action, or making any big decision, and get caught in the stampede. They are unlikely to survive long enough to make the journey to reach you. Them that live nearer are the ones you will have to deal with.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
A couple of the comments seemed like it, but regardless:

Do you have any constrictive suggestions?
Constrictive comments? Sure line them all up, the Libtards and apply elastators on their lips.
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:06 AM
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Back along the lines of what you say to people. My daughter's husband's, brother in law who just asked for a divorce is former combat recon/sniper military. He has always had a poor attitude towards his immediate family and been reclusive during family functions.

I hired him out of the army about 4 years ago to be nice but even then he was depressed and didn't work hard. But, he has some great combat/security skills.

Now with the divorce he has turned super mean.

He would not be welcome at the compound if he arrived. If I turn him away, will he snipe us, join a different aggressive group and compromise our opsec? What a mess, thoughts?!
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:15 AM
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Back along the lines of what you say to people. My daughter's husband's, brother in law who just asked for a divorce is former combat recon/sniper military. He has always had a poor attitude towards his immediate family and been reclusive during family functions.

I hired him out of the army about 4 years ago to be nice but even then he was depressed and didn't work hard. But, he has some great combat/security skills.

Now with the divorce he has turned super mean.

He would not be welcome at the compound if he arrived. If I turn him away, will he snipe us, join a different aggressive group and compromise our opsec? What a mess, thoughts?!
how far away does he live?

do you think a divorced ex-brother-in-law is going to expect to join your group after the divorce is final?

maybe he'll move away?
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:57 AM
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I feel even years from now he would potentially come. Now he lives about 60 miles away, so yes kinda close.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:04 PM
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I feel even years from now he would potentially come. Now he lives about 60 miles away, so yes kinda close.
Well you have no choice but to turn him away......just have to foresee some consequences and be ready if that time ever comes. Maybe a preemptive strike?
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:41 PM
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Well you have no choice but to turn him away......just have to foresee some consequences and be ready if that time ever comes. Maybe a preemptive strike?
I understand but a preemptive strike would be bad for me in normal times.
On the flip side, if things are not patched up between them, I have the resources to keep track of him. Right now he has all the Minority Report tags. He is isolating himself, very depressed, has no friends (I have tried on many occasions to reach out and befriend him in the past), bad conduct discharged from the military, owns a small amount of firearms.
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:20 PM
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I understand but a preemptive strike would be bad for me in normal times.

On the flip side, if things are not patched up between them, I have the resources to keep track of him. Right now he has all the Minority Report tags. He is isolating himself, very depressed, has no friends (I have tried on many occasions to reach out and befriend him in the past), bad conduct discharged from the military, owns a small amount of firearms.
Keep reaching out to him, let him know you're there for him if he wants to talk.

I think many of us vets have been to places like that, to some degree. I used to laugh at depression til I experienced it.

He just needs to know someone understands him. Someone appreciates him. Someone thinks of him as a peer.

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Old 07-20-2019, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Ironically, we had a blow out last year with our daughter and husband. Similar non-negotiable. They need to make some significant apologies or simply stay away. It's not something I like, but what the newly married millennial couple has done to my wife, son, and in-laws was extremely unacceptable.

Who we would let through our doors or not has little to do with blood and more to do with character...

ROCK6
I feel for you on that one. Cutting off family is a tough row to hoe.
But, in some instances, its the only viable option.

I had to do that with one son & one daughter for a considerable time.
Daughter became addicted to amphetamines at about 20 years of age.
So bad she started stealing from me, vehicles, jewelry, money, etc.
I did EVERYTHING humanly possible to help her out.
But, nothing did.
Broke my heart to cut her out of our lives.
What saved & turn her around was pregnancy & giving birth.
Holding that baby in her arms made her realize she had to turn around.
She did & was welcomed back, once clean.

Mid 80's loaned my son $50K for additional down payment funds on a house.
Late 80's he was multiple house flipping & making TONS of profit.
Trouble was he was living far beyond his means & spending those profits on very expensive toys.

I could feel- see an economic fubar was on the way.
I warned him repeatedly he was insanely / dangerously leveraged.
And if economic fubar occurred, it would take him with it.

Late 87/88 the economy took a disastrous prolonged dump. He lost seven (7) houses he was buried in, intended to flip, including his own house.(which I had $50K in)

I had warned him aggressively time & time again. Had he taken me seriously, acted relatively quickly, he could have saved his profits, toys, house etc.

Well, he didn't & I wasn't going to bail him out to the tune of a couple million bucks. The only help I provided was to insure his wife & children didn't go hungry.

We hardly spoke for almost three (3) years.

It took him that long to get back on his feet again.
It was a lesson he learned well & since then we are on excellent terms again.

EXCESSIVE RISK & GREED will most often fubar your financial well being.

That is not to say RISK isn't worthwhile.
Just insure it a well calculated degree of risk.
__________________
Itís dangerous to be right, when the government is wrong. The price of freedom can be seen at your local VA hospital.

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Old 07-20-2019, 07:18 AM
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Humm, makes me think... His wife works for us, actually makes 4 times the salary he does, I know that doesn't help his ego either. I'll have my wife ask her if I should ask him out to lunch or something? His wife is an angel and wants it to workout with him. Who knows the things spinning in his head.

There are family functions that they all come here for, Easter, 4th, and Thanksgiving. The last time I saw him he had gained nearly 60-75lbs. He looked like Randy from Trailer Park Boys, and I have lost 35lbs from Keto, so that may cause resentment as well?
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:54 AM
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Great advice from lots of people here.

My dilemma is pretty much like the OP's dilemma. For me, it shapes up like this:

I live alone off the grid and like it. However, for sure I could not handle TEOTWAWKI by myself, mainly because - if I have learned anything from this forum - I have learned that one person alone will not be able to defend his or her home (protect it from marauders and so forth) in a TEOTWAWKI situation.

So, I am gradually enhancing my homestead so it could accommodate five or six people. I'm also building up my LTS food inventory; my goal is to have enough LTS food to sustain five or six people for at least a year, hopefully longer. The question is: who will those five or six people be?

I have some friends who are doctors. It would be great to have them here because they could deal with medical emergencies. The thing is, though, they would want their five children and grandchildren here as well.

I have some friends who are farmers, so they have many skills that would be useful. They would probably even come with livestock. Also, they have been stockpiling foods with long shelf lives.The only reason they would want to come here is that they rely on grid power. But the thing is, they have two disabled children, one of whom is violent at times, both of whom need a steady supply of meds.

I have another friend who is a biologist. Her knowledge and skills could come in handy. But what about her two elderly parents and their medical problems?

There are actually two people in my life who would definitely come without relatives, but these two people would be utterly useless in terms of skills. Also, both of them can drive me crazy at times; I can't imagine living with them.

My best bet is two homesteaders who live just a couple miles from here. They are smart and down to earth. They have all kinds of skills that would be useful. They would come without relatives. They would hate to leave their own property, I know, but since they rely on grid power, they would be hard pressed to stay there in a long-term grid-down situation.

Most of the people I've mentioned probably are not skilled with firearms, except possibly the farmer with the disabled kids and the homesteaders that live near me.

Just like everybody else here, I've had people say the "I'm coming to your house" thing. They always say it jokingly, because of course they think prepping is a joke.

From this thread I've gotten what I think is a good idea. Here is what I'm going to do next time somebody says that to me.

I'll do my best to change the tone of the conversation to a serious, down-to-earth tone, and I'll say, "Well, if you want to come to my house, you need to come with your own supply of food for a year." And then I will explain details: canned foods with good expiration dates, dried foods like beans and rice, a nutritionally balanced mix of different food types. I'll make it clear that I'm serious. In a nice way, of course.

EDIT: And I'll also explain that they can't wait for an emergency to happen before buying that year's supply of food. I'll explain why: in an emergency scenario, store inventories won't be replenished, stores will be looted, etc.
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