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Personnel, who's welcome and who's not

18K views 151 replies 56 participants last post by  Fizbin 
#1 ·
I can buy stuff, learn stuff and do stuff for prepping but I have a lot of anxiety on who to welcome, who is not welcome and who to invite in the event of a SHTF scenario.

I have a good handful of family around the country who all say "let's go to Uncle Fizbin's place" if something happens. Whereas I'm flattered and can use the personnel for LP/OP's, defense, gardening, livestock, maintenance, and more, a some of these "family members", lazy, have no skills, and worse,,, some have health maintenance issues. Some have as I call it people baggage as well, maybe they are an asset but their spouse would be a liability. Some have like 3 or 4 young kids, some are very old.

How do you tell the baggage people not to come?
An example, I have a son-in-law who is great, but he would need to invite his mom and dad, a sister and her husband and 4 young kids, another sister with her 3 young kids and a twist she and her husband are getting a divorce. Do I tell my daughter and SIL they can come but none or only part of his family?

What do I say about 86 year old granny in a wheel chair and takes like 20 pills a day, coming here? Actually we'd have to send transport about 100 miles round trip to get her.

Then there are the out of state family members who would bring virtually no physical assets or supplies. What do you do or say if they just show up?

Next, I am very very short on personnel. I NEED people just to man watches alone. How do I find these types of folks. I have a couple of employees at work I know would be great, but then again I know they have family baggage. What ideas do you have to grow your compound numbers?

I have started a spreadsheet of all the people I know that would come. I have a column for Skills, Health, Family Baggage, shot distance away for quick arrival, long distance for maybe popping up in weeks or months, and monetary or survival assets.

The only solution I have for this would be to reach out to the folks on my list and ask them what exactly their intentions would be. If they would come for sure I would send them a list of skills that would be needed here. They could choose from the list what they would want to learn and bring to the table.

I'm fortunate enough to have been able to buy tons of near every hard asset needed, but skills and people, I can't do it all.

What other ideas would you have on personnel, I'm sure there are a bunch of things I'm overlooking.
 
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#40 ·
I recently had this discussion with my Brother-in-Law's family, over dinner. They farm a bit with some chickens and about an acre of row crops, and now starting a small orchard behind the house. He is an excellent carpenter, with general construction experience now semi-retired. I have less physical ability and more medical issues to manage, but plumbing and electrical construction and repair experience to share. I do not farm, but I hunt and fish, with both long-range (match grade) rifles and shotguns on hand. I have done masonry (brick and block) construction, and we both have done some concrete formwork. We work well together and both of us have stockpiles of food and supplies in bunkered basements in our homes.

BUT

We have a somewhat different emotional approach to the SHTF situation. I have spent a good part of my life in service to the public. Military, Gov't, Church Mission. And would be willing to put myself at some risk to share with those unprepared and "unworthy" for survival, because I believe we are ALL "UNWORTHY"

His family believes more in protecting what is theirs, prepped and built for THEM. I see both approaches as valid. Each person must take time to look inside their own heart to decide what is right for them. Then as Sun Tzu advises: Prepare during peace for the coming but unforseen war. AND my favorite: "Best Defense: Don't be There"
 
#54 ·
I think there's some blindspots in these theory-crafting scenarios that people overlook. So I'm just going to throw some questions out there that you can think about whether they'd throw wrenches in your plan about "if you build it they will come". I have theorycrafted somewhat extensively purely as a fantastical exercise, what if I win the lottery and can make a compound/retreat for the whole family and everyone at church? But there's some questions.

1. What happens when everyone shows up and some people don't want to take your orders, and/or can't decide on a leader?

2. What happens when everyone shows up but half the crowd thinks that your cousin or your uncle who is a former PD officer should be the one running the show? Does it matter anymore that it's your property and your stuff? Does it matter that you had a plan?

3. What happens if the SHTF scenario is a virulent plague, and several people who show up are asymptomatic carriers?

4. What happens when you have to turn family away? Or what happens when you have to exile someone for a major crime committed while in your "colony"? Does this not expose you to future risk, if this person is willing to give away your location, force disposition, and supply storage to some raider group as a way to ingratiate themselves, or to save their own life? Does this change how you deal with people?

5. When it comes to Crime and Punishment, how do you deal with it? What happens when someone rapes someone or kills someone, but he's well liked by a big part of the family, and they refuse to let you carry out a sentence? Or, if your leadership has been subverted, what happens if the new leader refuses to punish him?


All interesting considerations. We tend to take certain things for granted in our planning, and command structure is one of them. This is why it's so important to only bring in people you trust. There is no situation that cannot be made worse by a struggle over leadership.
 
#55 ·
AS I expressed earlier..
YOUR stuff, YOUR home, YOUR rules.
There is NO VOTING in a dictatorship.
YOU and ONLY YOU make the BIG decisions
YOU decide the chain of command.
YOU are the only one YOU answer to.

SO
1-IF they refuse your orders OUT THEY GO
2-IF they refuse your orders OUT THEY GO
3-OUT THEY GO
4-KILL THEM.. otherwise security risk is too great..Sorry about that.
5-THEY will have to KILL YOU to change the leadership. REFER to rule #1

IT should be implicit in understanding to ANY AND ALL who would join YOUR place for survival... YOUR place, YOUR rules or GET OUT.
There is ZERO discussion on this and any that you do not authorize is mutiny and you can execute them on the spot.
Remember, a democracy is a sheep and 3 wolves voting on what is for dinner. A democracy has no place where very hard decisions are to be made by people who have neither the stomach nor the balls to make those decisions. There is a reason why the military is NOT a democracy.
 
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#70 ·
Chances are it will be a non-issue, as stupid people tend to procrastinate til the last possible second before taking any action, or making any big decision, and get caught in the stampede. They are unlikely to survive long enough to make the journey to reach you. Them that live nearer are the ones you will have to deal with.
 
#72 ·
Back along the lines of what you say to people. My daughter's husband's, brother in law who just asked for a divorce is former combat recon/sniper military. He has always had a poor attitude towards his immediate family and been reclusive during family functions.

I hired him out of the army about 4 years ago to be nice but even then he was depressed and didn't work hard. But, he has some great combat/security skills.

Now with the divorce he has turned super mean.

He would not be welcome at the compound if he arrived. If I turn him away, will he snipe us, join a different aggressive group and compromise our opsec? What a mess, thoughts?!
 
#79 ·
Humm, makes me think... His wife works for us, actually makes 4 times the salary he does, I know that doesn't help his ego either. I'll have my wife ask her if I should ask him out to lunch or something? His wife is an angel and wants it to workout with him. Who knows the things spinning in his head.

There are family functions that they all come here for, Easter, 4th, and Thanksgiving. The last time I saw him he had gained nearly 60-75lbs. He looked like Randy from Trailer Park Boys, and I have lost 35lbs from Keto, so that may cause resentment as well?
 
#80 ·
Great advice from lots of people here.

My dilemma is pretty much like the OP's dilemma. For me, it shapes up like this:

I live alone off the grid and like it. However, for sure I could not handle TEOTWAWKI by myself, mainly because - if I have learned anything from this forum - I have learned that one person alone will not be able to defend his or her home (protect it from marauders and so forth) in a TEOTWAWKI situation.

So, I am gradually enhancing my homestead so it could accommodate five or six people. I'm also building up my LTS food inventory; my goal is to have enough LTS food to sustain five or six people for at least a year, hopefully longer. The question is: who will those five or six people be?

I have some friends who are doctors. It would be great to have them here because they could deal with medical emergencies. The thing is, though, they would want their five children and grandchildren here as well.

I have some friends who are farmers, so they have many skills that would be useful. They would probably even come with livestock. Also, they have been stockpiling foods with long shelf lives.The only reason they would want to come here is that they rely on grid power. But the thing is, they have two disabled children, one of whom is violent at times, both of whom need a steady supply of meds.

I have another friend who is a biologist. Her knowledge and skills could come in handy. But what about her two elderly parents and their medical problems?

There are actually two people in my life who would definitely come without relatives, but these two people would be utterly useless in terms of skills. Also, both of them can drive me crazy at times; I can't imagine living with them.

My best bet is two homesteaders who live just a couple miles from here. They are smart and down to earth. They have all kinds of skills that would be useful. They would come without relatives. They would hate to leave their own property, I know, but since they rely on grid power, they would be hard pressed to stay there in a long-term grid-down situation.

Most of the people I've mentioned probably are not skilled with firearms, except possibly the farmer with the disabled kids and the homesteaders that live near me.

Just like everybody else here, I've had people say the "I'm coming to your house" thing. They always say it jokingly, because of course they think prepping is a joke.

From this thread I've gotten what I think is a good idea. Here is what I'm going to do next time somebody says that to me.

I'll do my best to change the tone of the conversation to a serious, down-to-earth tone, and I'll say, "Well, if you want to come to my house, you need to come with your own supply of food for a year." And then I will explain details: canned foods with good expiration dates, dried foods like beans and rice, a nutritionally balanced mix of different food types. I'll make it clear that I'm serious. In a nice way, of course.

EDIT: And I'll also explain that they can't wait for an emergency to happen before buying that year's supply of food. I'll explain why: in an emergency scenario, store inventories won't be replenished, stores will be looted, etc.
 
#81 ·
See, once again it's what I call the People Baggage.

More and more when I read folks stories it makes me more likely to create a binder of info with a quiz at the end. The informational part will be why I created the binder, what I'm actually trying to do here, what they should do where they are, what skills are needed, what stuff is needed, and a list of skills/stuff they can bring or choose; if they want to come. The quiz they have to return will have questions that will be based on giving me an idea on their mindset primarily, with a few distraction questions thrown in.

What would some of the questions and thoughts you would have on creating this "Binder"?


Great advice from lots of people here.

My dilemma is pretty much like the OP's dilemma. For me, it shapes up like this:

I live alone off the grid and like it. However, for sure I could not handle TEOTWAWKI by myself, mainly because - if I have learned anything from this forum - I have learned that one person alone will not be able to defend his or her home (protect it from marauders and so forth) in a TEOTWAWKI situation.

So, I am gradually enhancing my homestead so it could accommodate five or six people. I'm also building up my LTS food inventory; my goal is to have enough LTS food to sustain five or six people for at least a year, hopefully longer. The question is: who will those five or six people be?

I have some friends who are doctors. It would be great to have them here because they could deal with medical emergencies. The thing is, though, they would want their five children and grandchildren here as well.

I have some friends who are farmers, so they have many skills that would be useful. They would probably even come with livestock. Also, they have been stockpiling foods with long shelf lives.The only reason they would want to come here is that they rely on grid power. But the thing is, they have two disabled children, one of whom is violent at times, both of whom need a steady supply of meds.

I have another friend who is a biologist. Her knowledge and skills could come in handy. But what about her two elderly parents and their medical problems?

There are actually two people in my life who would definitely come without relatives, but these two people would be utterly useless in terms of skills. Also, both of them can drive me crazy at times; I can't imagine living with them.

My best bet is two homesteaders who live just a couple miles from here. They are smart and down to earth. They have all kinds of skills that would be useful. They would come without relatives. They would hate to leave their own property, I know, but since they rely on grid power, they would be hard pressed to stay there in a long-term grid-down situation.

Most of the people I've mentioned probably are not skilled with firearms, except possibly the farmer with the disabled kids and the homesteaders that live near me.

Just like everybody else here, I've had people say the "I'm coming to your house" thing. They always say it jokingly, because of course they think prepping is a joke.

From this thread I've gotten what I think is a good idea. Here is what I'm going to do next time somebody says that to me.

I'll do my best to change the tone of the conversation to a serious, down-to-earth tone, and I'll say, "Well, if you want to come to my house, you need to come with your own supply of food for a year." And then I will explain details: canned foods with good expiration dates, dried foods like beans and rice, a nutritionally balanced mix of different food types. I'll make it clear that I'm serious. In a nice way, of course.
 
#84 ·
I am creating my Skills List. I tried doing a search here on this forum for skills lists and I think my search skills are challenged.

Here is what I have so far.

  • Leather shop
  • Sewing shop
  • Water pump repairer, installer
  • Solar system installer
  • Fence builder
  • Maker of lantern wicks and mantels
  • Mortuary affairs provider
  • Hair cutting --- barbering
  • Blacksmithing - Tool manufacturer, repairer
  • Carpenter services, barn, shelter, furniture
  • Child Teaching
  • AC and DC wiring
  • Candle Making
  • Engine Repair
  • Gardening, crop growth, herbicides, pesticides
  • Gunsmithing
  • Fire fighting
  • Medical, ER
  • Cooking for large numbers
  • Entertainment, music, acting
  • Soap making, primitive laundry,
  • Dutch oven cooking
  • Hunting
  • Field dressing
  • Fishing, Fishing equipment repair
  • Trapping
  • Skinning Tanning
  • Dentist
  • Security, tactics, defense


 
#86 ·
id be having the discussion with everyone on the list--right now. anyone who wants to be a part of your 'community' RIGHT NOW can start making plans to sell their places, gather up their stocks and develop your land and their contributions OR they had the opportunity to join in you and missed it. make it very clear that asking to join up later will end up with a no answer..and the consequences of their actions are their own choices
 
#94 ·
I did ask for ideas... It would be a little tricky to expect everyone on my list from all over the country to quit their jobs, sell their homes, pack up and move out here especially before the SHTF.

I'm still leaning towards the list of skills needed. They can bring food, firearms and other essentials that they can fit in a car as they travel. I have just mentioned it to a few key folks on the list , who I'm sure have disseminated to the rest, that I have all the "Stuff" and they just have to get here. For many I have even sent hard (on paper) map/routes, down to small rural routes to avoid highways with instructions how to get here.

As I mentioned before I'm sure I'm the Uncle Fizbin they are laugh or talk about and I'm just hoping I never have to say "I told ya' so"!
 
#88 ·
I want to mention another reason to limit your group. This is a creepy one.

My Momma grew up in the back roads of Georgia. I asked her one time if child molestors were more of a modern thing, or did she know of those people. She told me they were defintely around, but here's how it worked:

The kid might not not tell Daddy, but might tell an older sibling. Hard to keep secrets with so many in the house and so little privacy. Cat out of bag.

Daddy, all the Uncles, and the other men in the family, church, whatever, made funny uncle get disappeared. Byebye, perv.

These days society has a lot of features that make perverts bold and very numerous.

I read some of these posts with all of these fantasy scenarios, and I have one question: Are you going to let people you don't know VERY well around your babies?

'Cause I ain't!!
 
#89 ·
it's a damn shame but it happens way more than anyone knows. for every pervert that gets thrown in the slammer and put on the registry there's 2 others that are never caught.

we had one going to church with us for several years, and another church one county over from us knew about it and knew us well enough to contact us, but never did. as far as we know they never made any moves on anyone but from what we heard he was more of the type that did it to his own family. he's in prison now.
 
#90 ·
I've got one sister in law who's a drug addict and another that's a manipulative useless piece of **** with obvious mental issues. I'd take in the meth addict over the other; that's how bad she is as a person. Neither would be welcome.

I've made friends that are way better people. I don't have people around that aren't friends. If someone has trust issues, I don't bother with them. Gossipy, permanently borrow stuff, don't contribute to the group, ask favors but never return them, are terrible with money, cliquey, talk more than do, etc., etc. They're easy to pick out and avoid.

I don't treat relatives differently from other people. That's why I'm friends with some siblings and not with others. My friends will be welcome. My friends are also the type of people that vet their friends carefully, so them vouching for someone means something.
 
#91 ·
It's true that just because someone is family doesn't mean they're not a threat.

I guess people just have different feelings about family. My family will always come first. I view family as a personal responsibility.

But of course, when it's your crackhead uncle, if you think he's potentially a threat, you have a greater responsibility to the rest of your family to say "No."
 
#92 ·
Besides SKILLS, how people act in communal group settings & circumstances is critical.

I know highly skilled people that I would not invite or want in our BOL group.

Simply because they don't carry their weight, or voluntarily do their fair share, and/or have bad personal attitudes or habits.

One in particular had a habit of hitting on any/all (of age) females around, regardless of the females being happily married, having a serious significant other or obviously uninterested.

That would cause serious conflict.
 
#95 ·
yep and while some skills would be valuable in a specific context, maybe that would be something that would happen or be used infrequently. for instance, i have one brother in law who is more an expert on gunsmithing than anyone else. know more about electrical and electronics, another brother in law is more an expert on small engines. none of those are going to be something that is likely to keep a man busy full time just for a small group's survival. and there are other things that would be very useful, but infrequently, like medical skills. no group can afford to have a bunch of able-bodied adults not carrying their weight. the tax base won't be big enough ;)
 
#93 ·
ONE of the things about living in rural northern Mich or probably anywhere...
Rural folks know stuff.
I live on a private road with one other house. Between us we have 4 welders and 2 sets of oxy acet tanks.
He does commercial construction Can work on or fix ANYTHING.
I have done it.
But
Just about everyone around does some wiring, plumbing, construction, woods cutting , hunting and fishing skills.
IT is not like in the city, where if you held up a spring trap, you would have to ask 50 people before someone could actually identify it.

Rural People already have parts.
I never throw away a piece of wood smaller than a foot square. If something is really broken I remove every bolt and screw that can be salvaged and if the end result is there is steel that can be reshaped into a bracket or fixture, it goes in another bin.(the wife says I am a hoarder, I say I am saving money)
People up here are already equipped for doing things on their own because it is cheaper and it is simply easier to fix things yourself instead of having to travel 40-50 miles round trip to a store because you need a bolt or piece of plywood.

So, rural folks can fill a lot of holes in skills needed for any group.
 
#96 ·
Ideally it is best to be established way ahead of time ,not postponed to the last minuet.
Secondly a temporary house well away from the compound is wired for sound to security where visitors/occupants conversations are being monitored .
People assigned to live there are there to prove them self and know nothing of the lay out of the base . Individuals are drawn from the house and given a through examination and put on sanctuary mode , for food some one in the group must be willing to share their own food rations with them ,no one is obligated by law to do so .
After a time the group may vote to accept or reject the applicant, due to attitude learning skills and any other criteria the group deems necessary . Respect is earned it is not a right.
They are put to work just like every one else and observed for their worth , If none is found the perimeter surveillance team takes them on a walk .
If some one in the group breaks the rules ,no matter the seniority they are reduced to sanctuary status . no food unless some one is willing to share their own ration .
Ones ration is earned day to day by working ,and can by saving their ration accumulate off time (wealth) or trade it for service from one another. selling ones possessions, help with shelter , ,,,,,,.
A team is designated to forage ,not raid . and these collect things like batteries and lights and thigs of value to the group. Even people with potential, they must too start out in the temporary house just like every one else.
Some one that proves to be a problem and judged by the group is taken for a walk .
Only those that work have a vote and all must vote and their name is notes with the vote they are not anonymous . As time passes the group skills can be marketed and other groups might exchange ,but not merge. That may or may not happen soon enough . The tendency is to jump into something in ignorance and then face the music ,I tend to take things slowly, as I am sure some of the seasoned here can agree.
Trust must be earned and honest gratitude must be realized. and for the most part these are missing in society today.
 
#99 ·
For your compounds entrance, you should get a big fancy wrought iron gate with the words “Arbeit macht frei” on top.

Summer camp, your place is not.

"A team is designated to forage ,not raid . and these collect things like batteries and lights and thigs of value to the group." Forage, pillage, who is to stop them.

I especially take note of your statement about your guards "taking them for a walk". Nice healthy stroll ending with a .45 bullet I suppose.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
#100 ·
I read this stuff to figure out what kind of lunacy will be afoot. It reads like Escape From New York. Yup, Real patriots. The US Constitution will be trampled.

Word to the wise to those just now reading this. Never join any club that will have you, never join any cults. Keep you skills to yourself. If you are an MD, be wary you might get kidnapped (without your "baggage family") to tend to the casualties in some lunitic prepper compound,

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
#101 ·
Some of the posts make you think. I don't plan on joining anyone else. That is why I have land, and preps. Family and friends will come here so I personally don't have to worry about joining a bad group.

Albeit some folks here were just kidding, if you are the leader of a group I think a few of the most important traits will include humility and empathy. As for a sweat shop and the like,,, if you think about it or ever watched any of the homesteading shows,,, life will become one gi-normouse sweat shop, no doubt!

"A man has got to know his limitations." ~D. Harry
 
#102 ·
Outside those who frequent such forums, the general public has no idea of how bad a SHTF event will be. These people believe the government has a plan in store for every scenario.

Not too many know I have things stored, my late wife let it slip to her sister that we prepare and she said she's heading here 1st thing. Being 30 miles west and in Queens NY, I doubt she would make it here alive. Her sister does not cook, they go out for 95% of their meals. Strike 2 & 3 is she's a hard core liberal and a college professor. I told her to keep her money-maker in fine tune.

I have noticed in recent years that more friends and family store extra non-perishable food than they used to. I advise people to stock up on supplies, be it food, medical, candles, batteries and so on. Some listen or ask for more advice.

I have an alliance with a few local families that we have agreed on teaming up if things go bad and if anyone else is joining, they had better bring something to the party if they want to be admitted. I can hunker down with my small family easily enough, but I believe that more people working together have a better chance of survival.
 
#108 ·
Tests to see if people are suitable:

LARGE GARBAGE CAN LOADING.

Some will fill a 40 gallon garbage can to maximize the amount it will hold. PASS

Others will fill a 40 gallon garbage with two (2) empty cardboard boxes stacked end to end. So the full garbage can contains 95% open air space FAIL

DISHWASHER LOADING

Some just fill a dishwasher haphazardly, some much so the dish's will not get cleaned. FAIL

While others load a dishwasher carefully to maximize the load & the dish's come out clean. PASS

There are numerous similar circumstances - that will demonstrate HOW people think.

Stupid is as stupid does.
 
#111 ·
Waste not, want not.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Take care of it, and it'll take care of you.
or... take care of it because you won't get another.
You think money grows on trees?
Loose lips sink ships.
Close the door (tightly).
Don't slam the door.
Go back out and close the door right.
Close the refrigerator.
Empty the water (from the icebox) (into the pitcher).
Wash your hands.
Wipe your feet.
Shut up and eat your dinner.
Do your homework.
Do our chores.
Set your alarm clock.
Help your little (brother or sister).
Wait till your father comes home.
Sir, may I please have your daughter's hand in marriage?
Thank you, Jesus!
God, family, job.
Duty, honor, country.
Pride, integrity, guts.


Ah, those were the days :D:
 
#112 ·
It sometimes mildly surprises me the LACK of common curtesy much of the younger generation has.

Makes you wonder how they were raised. :xeye:

It seems instead of taking the time to teach youngsters common curtesy.
Parents today buy them expensive iPhones instead.
Which, it seems they then have them in their face 24/7.
 
#115 ·
It's a case by case basis obviously, but as a start family baggage is a no. Family tweeks people out, and loyalties can flip when someone you have a bond to pours honey in your ear.


As for rejecting family itself that might be useless, easy for me. I hold no special place for blood. Just because you happened to be born into some family doesn't automatically earn them lifelong loyalty. Just a coincidence. You have to earn respect, and keep it. I hold friends in higher regard than family.
 
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