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Old 09-10-2020, 06:45 AM
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A good way to keep people imprisoned in their own minds is to control a steady diet of mind numbing profane garbage. Brilliant trick by TPTB and look how it’s working! Twerking by young girls is AOK but Vivaldi is public enemy number one because of “racism.” What a clown world we live in.
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:07 AM
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Racism also goes the other way I really hate rap misic, it's not music. it's noise.
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:24 AM
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I guess my approach to this is simple minded. If they see the music as racist, they don't need to listen to it or support it. I don't much care for their music either, so I don't listen to it. That's the wonderful thing about freedom.

They've already said that math is racist. What's next, telling us that certain colors are racist?
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by film495 View Post
I kind of feel like if quality music education was a higher priority, people would generally have better taste and pop music would not be so unbearably terrible. It also changes the way your mind works to learn to play music, and for the better. Not learning is like just deciding never to use part of your brain on purpose, just can't be a good thing.
That's right, and most people don't know that. In countries like Finland, for example, music education is mandatory for the first six years, and becomes an elective after:

https://musicaustralia.org.au/2017/0...-how-it-works/

The result is, for a country which has only a few million people, a "classical music powerhouse" that rivals even those in Germany:

https://www.wqxr.org/story/finland-m...ts-centennial/

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/05/w...-maestros.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/t...musicians.html

I recall reading an article many years ago which gave more details, and if I'm not mistaken, performance of not only Western classical music but also Finnish folk music is encouraged, as well as being open to music from different parts of the world. That, in turn, is carefully balanced with their love for Sibelius.

Finally, not only music education, but Finnish education itself is considered one of the best in the world. Interestingly enough, its counterpart, Singapore, arrives at similar ends but using an opposing educational system. And coupled with that is major support for cultural institutions--from theater and music groups to museums and libraries--which allows not only music appreciation but appreciation of the arts and sciences to become a lifelong endeavor.

I'm guessing that the basis of all that are ancient philosophies akin to the Socratic goal of knowing thyself and Confucius' self-cultivation.
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Old 09-11-2020, 06:20 AM
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Sibelius! One of the greatest composers of all time and his violin concerto one of the hardest to master.

I have no Finnish ancestry but greatly admire their culture. The American public school system has been compromised by Liberal school boards and administrations. The more they swing to the left the more schools fail to educate. Across the board.
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:28 AM
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The majority of popular and rock music utilizes the classical music form known as rondo. I recently took a classical music course where the instructor would play a pop or rock song and the class was required to identify the specific type of rondo.
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:46 PM
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Sibelius! One of the greatest composers of all time and his violin concerto one of the hardest to master.

I have no Finnish ancestry but greatly admire their culture. The American public school system has been compromised by Liberal school boards and administrations. The more they swing to the left the more schools fail to educate. Across the board.
According to John Taylor Gatto, the U.S. public school system was formed not by liberal school boards but by industrialists like Carnegie and Rockefeller. The system is similar to those used in factories and other work places, the military, and even prisons, and the goal was to produce obedient workers and willing consumers which is what capitalists need. And it worked.
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Old 09-12-2020, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ralfy View Post
According to John Taylor Gatto, the U.S. public school system was formed not by liberal school boards but by industrialists like Carnegie and Rockefeller. The system is similar to those used in factories and other work places, the military, and even prisons, and the goal was to produce obedient workers and willing consumers which is what capitalists need. And it worked.
You say that like it was a bad thing.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:14 PM
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You say that like it was a bad thing.
Or the other way round.
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Old 09-13-2020, 01:31 AM
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You say that like it was a bad thing.
Or the other way round.
I thought the church originally institutionalised education.
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:14 AM
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I thought the church originally institutionalised education.
Yes so did I.
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:31 PM
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I thought the church originally institutionalised education.
I think it was based on the septem artes liberales, which in turn was based on a rich tradition of liberal arts education stemming from the ancient Greeks and with counterparts in China. The premise is not simply to train or mold the pupil ("educare") but to do so in order for the pupil to cultivate himself throughout his life through self-education ("educere," to lead out [of the darkness]).

The U.S. public education stems from nineteenth-century Prussia, were it was discovered that through minimal, standardized, and regimented training people could be molded into efficient soldiers and workers. Educators like Horace Mann and John Dewey still believed in the older tradition of liberal education because such self-cultivation was needed especially in a democracy. But according to Gatto and others, the country by then was being taken over by the richest, and they wanted a regimented public education system that could turn citizens into obedient workers and consumers. And that could only be achieved through training and regimented behavior similar to what was imposed in military forces, prisons, and factories.

Here's how Gatto described that system from the wiki entry about him:

Quote:
It confuses the students. It presents an incoherent ensemble of information that the child needs to memorize to stay in school. Apart from the tests and trials, this programming is similar to the television; it fills almost all the "free" time of children. One sees and hears something, only to forget it again.

It teaches them to accept their class affiliation.

It makes them indifferent.

It makes them emotionally dependent.

It makes them intellectually dependent.

It teaches them a kind of self-confidence that requires constant confirmation by experts (provisional self-esteem).

It makes it clear to them that they cannot hide, because they are always supervised.[12]
and the main goals of such a system are the ff:

Quote:
The adjustive or adaptive function. Schools are designed to establish fixed habits of response to authority.

The integrating function. The purpose of this function is to make kids as like as possible.

The diagnostic and directive function. Schools determine each student's proper social role.

The differentiating function. Students are trained no more than to meet the standards of determined social role.

The selective function. Unadopted students are treated like inferiors in order to prevent their reproduction.

The propaedeutic function. Small fraction of selected students is created in order to continue the schooling system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto

I sense Gatto did not like this because he was a libertarian, which meant that even through he acknowledged the need for standards in capitalist economies he was also critical of the manner by which that together with pecuniary emulation permeated modern societies.

That said, one can probably see connections between this and how appreciation of classical music, among others, fares in various societies.
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:07 PM
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With the decidedly leftist colleges, and increasing number of high school students who look with favor at Socialism, one couldn't be blamed for being skeptical with the notion that public school is an institution that grooms the students to become good little Capitalists. Especially while our society is in the throes of rioting by organizations whose member are a product of that institution, and whose stated goal is the destruction of Capitalism.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:58 PM
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<good stuff snipped> ..."That's why classical music is appreciated by only a small proportion of the world population, and they come from many races. And the reaction to that is not only based on accusations of racism but even of elitism".
Accusations of music being 'racism' are simply specious. Classical music itself is not 'racist'. It is possible that today it is listened to only by certain segments of the population, but when it was written it was not only the height of what was musically and technically possible, but it was enjoyed by all members of society at that time.

It's natural that technological progress should impact musical development, as well as all the cultural factors that influence popular music. But modern music today isn't 'racist' either. It is written for everyone who enjoys listening to it.

It's important to remember that Wm. Shakespeare's plays were written for the common people to enjoy - not the aristocracy. Today going to see a play by Shakespeare may be considered something that only certain 'classes' of people do, but when Shakespeare wrote those plays they were aimed at the common people.

It's the same thing with classical music. People who attend classical symphony events today may exhibit predictable backgrounds, but the music itself is timeless and was written for all humanity.

As that article noted, when liberal activists call things like classical music "racist", it takes away legitimacy from complaints about things that are truly racist.

They'd better be careful that they don't spread their arguments so thin that their complaints no longer are considered legitimate at all.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RKW View Post
With the decidedly leftist colleges, and increasing number of high school students who look with favor at Socialism, one couldn't be blamed for being skeptical with the notion that public school is an institution that grooms the students to become good little Capitalists. Especially while our society is in the throes of rioting by organizations whose member are a product of that institution, and whose stated goal is the destruction of Capitalism.
I think most of them are pinkos, i.e., they deal with issues concerning race and gender, but they still want white-collar jobs, high income (preferably through what's "in" and exciting), gov't support, and lots of nice stuff to choose from (which includes many companies which try to show that they're "in" as well by supporting LGBT, BLM, etc.). Not surprisingly, those who oppose them ideologically want and do the same things, too. And most from both sides don't appreciate classical music.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:22 PM
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Can we call RAP which isn't really singing racist also
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:29 PM
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Accusations of music being 'racism' are simply specious. Classical music itself is not 'racist'. It is possible that today it is listened to only by certain segments of the population, but when it was written it was not only the height of what was musically and technically possible, but it was enjoyed by all members of society at that time.

It's natural that technological progress should impact musical development, as well as all the cultural factors that influence popular music. But modern music today isn't 'racist' either. It is written for everyone who enjoys listening to it.

It's important to remember that Wm. Shakespeare's plays were written for the common people to enjoy - not the aristocracy. Today going to see a play by Shakespeare may be considered something that only certain 'classes' of people do, but when Shakespeare wrote those plays they were aimed at the common people.

It's the same thing with classical music. People who attend classical symphony events today may exhibit predictable backgrounds, but the music itself is timeless and was written for all humanity.

As that article noted, when liberal activists call things like classical music "racist", it takes away legitimacy from complaints about things that are truly racist.

They'd better be careful that they don't spread their arguments so thin that their complaints no longer are considered legitimate at all.
What was done in countries like Finland and Singapore was that governments spent a significant chunk of the budget on cultural institutions and activities, including music education in school, concerts that are open to the public, public funding for music groups, and more. That exposure to classical music translated to appreciation. In several countries, similar was done across the board, i.e., for libraries, museums, theater groups, etc.

Interestingly enough, the two also fund music that's indigenous and from different cultures. For example, I remember reading that Finnish folk music (including learning how to play traditional musical instruments) is part of that education, and Eastern classical music is part of classical music in Singapore.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:33 PM
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Rap has been labelled as garbage for the trash.
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