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???Load Bearing Equipment???

13K views 35 replies 18 participants last post by  Bo'Skarr 
#1 ·
Alright, my first of many stupid questions...

I'm trying to put together some gear for when the SHTF. Primarily I'm inquiring about Load bearing equipment.

As of now I have:
1x ALICE belt
1x "Y" harness
2x M16 Mag pouches (capable of holding 3 AR mags and 2 "baseball" grenades
2x Canteens w/covers (one even has the stainless steel coffee cup!)
1x Buttpack
1x M1912 cavalry holster


Now one question I have (which is really really stupid) pertains to where one hooks the front hooks of the "Y" harness. I have always hooked the back hooks into the "D" Rings on the top of the buttpack and the front hooks into the metal holes on the ALICE belt. But I have also seen them hooked onto the tabs on the top of the M16 mag pouches. Which is the correct way? Or is there even a "correct" way of doing this?

Also, does anyone have any experience combining the ALICE system with a MOLLE plate carrier?
 
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#2 ·
Either the metal D rings or the O rings in the belt. Most people used the D rings because they tend to be uniformly placed on the belt.

As for attaching it to a plate carrier I've seen the belts zip tied or even 550 corded to the bottoms of IBAs before I don't see why that wouldn't work for you. Or you can just wear the belt by it's self on your hips with some kind of pad which is very common, and pads can be had for around $20 or so.

Though I would honestly recommend saving up and getting a belt from HSG or some other quality belt if you plan to use it a lot they're worth every penny. Also you can attach ALICE gear directly to MOLLE gear using zip ties, it's what we used to do when the military was making the transition from one to the other and we had mixed match ALICE/MOLLE gear.
 
#3 ·
My biggest problems with using the o-rings on the mag pouches is they seem to be made out of such thin material and they dont seem like theyre stitched onto the mag pouch very well either. I guess I never thought of using the belt by itself with no harness. Thought the belt would slide right off my arse when I put any more weight on it other than my holster and a canteen.

As far as use with a plate carrier, I guess I was more getting at wearing the plate carrier and wearing the ALICE harness OVER the vest. thought I saw a picture of someone doing that once but I dont remember where.
 
#4 ·
Having worn that particular rig from '75 until about '02... I suggest you attach all connectors to the pistol belt. I never used the D-rings on my buttpack as an attachment point for the harness hooks.

Pouches can and do get pulled off the rig, ALICE clips can get bent or fail, and keeping the harness connected to the belt allows you to more easily adjust pouch positions.

Here's some additional tips & advice concerning your harness setup:
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=5915113&postcount=24
 
#5 ·
What a blast from the past. It's amazing how long that rig has survived. It was still issued when I was in basic training over a decade ago. By then, the non-TRADOC Army has gone to the LBV, which was terrible except for the grenade pouches. I actually still have one, with a SAW pouch in place of one of the M-16 mag pouches. I used to use it during exercises where you where require to wear "combat gear" but in reality, just sat in an office all day. I could fit my whole lunch in that thing.
 
#7 ·
I have a couple of camel backs, and I never could get used to them. Here in Fl. the camel back will also get hot. And, they add a plastic taste to the water. I prefer a 1 qt stainless steel or aluminum canteen. Or for longer durations, add in a 2 qt GI canteen and carrier, thrown over your shoulder. 3 qts should get you through the day, along with a stainless steel cooking cup. I am looking at the new titanium wide mouth 1 qt GI canteen. But it is very pricey. http://www.heavycoverinc.com/heavy-...en-mess-kit-with-standard-tritan-plastic-cap/ Just under 11 oz. for the canteen, cup, and lid.
 
#8 ·
Alright, my first of many stupid questions...
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Git rid of those damn canteens and get a camelbak!There is nothing worse than warm water out of a GI canteen!! Plus those bastards will rub your hips raw on any sort of extended hike. The canteen cup is handy tho. Ah, memories lol
Those canteens also make a ton of noise when they are half full. A camel back collapses as the fluid gets consumed, making it quieter.
 
#16 ·
They should fit in the 3 mag pouches, you have to cut out the little divider fabric (If yours have them) and then you can fit two mags in the pouches, or if you have the money I'd just get some taco style pouches and never look back. Those are ultimately what I plan to transition to with my kit.

Damn thing was like a corset.
That's what we used when I first joined, then I got issued an IBA with brand new super fancy awesome MOLLE gear. Now we have plate carriers and the world is awesome.
 
#20 ·
Get rid of the metal clips, replace with 550 cord. They rub nasty blisters and break when you don't want them to. Ditch the metal pouch clips and use heavy duty zipties for the same reason. I do this with MOLLE gear too in addition to the straps. Canteens are better than camelbacks- sorry, but they're pretty much indestructible and for long term unsupported operations are easier to maintain. Camelbacks are good for urban COIN ops, but have a tendency to bust, grow mold, or melt(yes, seen it happen in Khandahar...ruck flop at a security halt on a hot rock, bye-bye nozzle). As far as noise is concerned, put two 2qt canteens on your ruck. They're collapsible, drink from those. NEVER drink from your Line 2. Your Line 2 kit(LCE/LBV) water is for if you have to ditch rucks and break contact to the hills.
 
#22 ·
Alright, Im sorry all, I havent been a very good forum-goer! I had my EMT classes, then after completing them I went into planting season. But its a tad wet out there so I have a little time to read you guys' intelligence! And I appreciate the help!

So, you guys that have experience in the actual combat zone, which is better? Plate carriers with MOLLE webbing to attach all your pouches and gear? Or is the old ALICE system still a viable option? Or is there a place for both of them?
 
#23 ·
I don't know if your open to other setups but if I may recommend another option, take a look at the South African pattern 83 gear. Its a complete system consisting of a battle jacket (think patrol vest) for short term activity and for longer activity a chest rig and rucksack. Having been issued and used the LBE lc1 & 2 and LBV they are ok and certainly functional I still have my LBE but I love my 83 gear only gripe is its only issued in Nutria brown color.
 
#25 ·
In early Afghanistan, I wore nearly slick armor (soft and plates) with a chest rig over that. Because we were typically mounted (in pickup trucks), it became easier to access things from a chest rig as opposed to belt order. Also easier to ride in those vehicles. At that time, the issued armor (RBA) had very limited MOLLE channel real estate. So a few pouches got placed on the armor and separate chest rigs, vests, or harnesses were worn over the armor. Everyone rigged their kit to personal taste and functionality.

By the time I was in Iraq, I simply added all my pouches to my Molle webbed body armor chassis, again wearing both hard plates and soft wrap around armor. Everything on the CIRAS and a gun belt or padded war belt around the waistline.

In theory, the ability to take off your chest rig is a handy feature. In reality, any time you could ditch that load, you'd also be in a place where you ditched the armor as well.

In addition, the ability to cut everything away with a single releasable rig while around water cannot be overstated. Trying to screw around with separate hydro carrier, chest rig, and armor while drowning... is a losing proposition. Especially while trying to egress a vehicle that's rolled over into a canal, flooded ditch, pond edge, river, etc.

During Cold War patrolling days, nobody wore armor at all, and often combined incredibly loaded belt kit/butt packs with equally loaded chest rigs. Great for carrying lots of stuff under a rucksack in the woods. Less great for mounted ops or certain aspects of CQB in urban terrain. It's hard to strap into a vehicle seat... or scoot through a narrow doorway or window... when your gear makes you 4 feet wide.

Chest rigs are great when you are wearing concealed soft armor. They are great when you want to carry a minimalist load. Or carry a very low profile load concealed under a cover garment. They are great when you can expect to be seated inside of vehicles or be occupying a narrow gun turret.

But there's nothing wrong with a classic harness and belt kit (like ALICE LCE). They work quite well and allow you to mount things 360 degrees around your middle... and on the shoulder harness straps (except for your rifle shoulder pocket area). Comfortable and breathable. Which is why the old battle harness concept has enjoyed a resurgence in recent years.

In 2002 Afghanistan, I ran with a locally procured $5 canvas Chinese AK chest pouch. So did almost everyone in my unit. Most of us just ditched our various other vests, harnesses, LBEs, etc. The super lightweight and functional AK chest rig did the job just fine. Rifle mags, grenades, battle dressings, compass, gun oil, emergency signal kit. That was it.



Sometimes simple is the way to go.

Here's some of my thoughts on chest rigs, plate carriers, and setup...

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=7169803&postcount=21
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=5333056&postcount=28
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=5397452&postcount=48
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=6362231&postcount=11
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=6209801&postcount=5
 
#26 ·
Agreed.

The tendency at first is to want to load up everything and the kitchen sink.
Want to be prepared for anything you know.

Then the longer you are in the field, the faster you start dumping stuff that is not actually mission critical.

Doesn't take long to figure out what you really need and what you are just humping around that just adds weight.
.
 
#27 ·
Here's another "problem" im having with some of the gear im seeing on the interwebs. Now where I live, in the winter its not uncommon for the highs to be below 0 or colder for days at a time. Now naturally, one is going to want to keep indoors and not be venturing out on the cold. But I do like to think of all the possibilities I can. Now with the gear im seeing, Im seeing a lot of plastic. Buckles, D-rings, snaps, fasteners, ext. How well built are the plastic components on some of these rigs? It just seems to me like some of that stuff would just shatter in an enviroment that cold, especially if it got hit by something (like falling off a snow machine at around 35 mph)

Do I have a valid point? Or am I just an idiot? And please people, if im making sh*t points, lemme know!
 
#29 ·
Good question about cold weather and plastic hardware.

The fasteners and keepers used by most military manufacturers and premium after-market tactical gear companies are rated for -40C/-40F.

The ones that come attached to airsoft gear or import bargain knock-offs? Well, you won't know they went with cheaper temperature sensitive plastics until it's too late.

I've conducted snow shoe, snow machine, foot, and ski movements at or below -40C and can't ever remember plastic hardware failing on vests, pouches, rucksacks etc. I ran a military snowmobile team for a few years and we had no problems with plastic rigged tactical wear or commercial mountaineering/snow gear. Also spent years mountaineering and alpine ski touring. Packs, ski baskets, adjustable touring ski-boot buckles, helmets, lift-the-dot snaps, plastic barrel locks, fasteners, keepers... they all seemed to hold up just fine.

I've literally been down to -72F (one time) while wearing the old ALICE LCE. No problems. At temps below about -40F, all materials start to suffer. Especially metal weapons parts and any metal items subjected to shear stress. I've cracked aluminum mortar base plates in half while firing at those temps. Fuzed ammo starts to show failures with initiating, detonating, or misfiring. But plastic bits seemed to hold up pretty well.

http://eu.itwnexus.com/content/general-material-descriptions-0
http://www.acesupplies.co.uk/acatalog/Material_Specification.html
http://www.fastex.com.au/upload/VUS-385-Buckle_Products.pdf

There's only a few places in the lower 48 of the USA, plus Alaska & Canada, where you are going to routinely encounter temps below -40C/-40F. If you live there, you already understand what will work. For most locations, at normal deep winter temps (10F to -25F), issues with plastic hardware are essentially non-existent.

oh... and another thing... what the hell harness is this?
Dunno for sure, but the pictures alludes to a copy of '90s era SEAL harness. It looks like a knock-off of the old Safariland SPEAR ELC load system that was once issued to SOCOM ground units. The problem is that the one in the photo is advertised as air soft gear. There are import copies available for about $99. But they aren't genuine military gear. Meaning that while they look right, they aren't actual field gear tested and proven for hard use. Quality materials and stitching count. You can buy incredibly durable real world gear for just a little bit more money. Or even less if you go with genuine military surplus. Don't skimp.

You can locate actual SPEAR components (or full kits) online for not a lot of money. They are pretty decent and were made for actual hard use. ~$200 for the full kit that came in a zippered storage bag. One of the early modular systems with the ability to use either an H-harness or a fighting load carrier vest, plus all manner of MOLLE pouches. I was issued that set back in the late 90's. As a matter of fact, I took it to OEF I. Never used it. Alice LCE & Chicom chest rig instead.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAFARILAND-...293?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3fdba2b5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USGI-WOODLA...221?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c4097155
 
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#30 ·
The harness in question looks like a copy of an LBT harness (London Bridge Trading) that was used in the early-mid 90's by some of the SEAL's, we'd see them running very similar rigs.

A lot of our own gear was very similar until the Marine Corps adopted new gear.

This was my personal rig from about 1993 up until around 2000.

 
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