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Old 02-27-2020, 05:28 PM
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Default Coronavirus mutating? People infected a second time?



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About 14% of patients who tested positive for the Coronavirus have tested positive for it again.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...s-who-21588972

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China has discovered that roughly 14% of patients who recover from coronavirus test positive for the killer disease again – with the mechanism behind the virus' apparent ability to re-infect a complete mystery.

This comes after Japan reported that a female tour-bus guide aged in her 40s had tested positive for the COVID-19 virus for a second time in Osaka.
This has been speculated in the medical community for decades that if there was an outbreak of a new virus there would be at least two waves. The first wave would infect whomever it could, mutate, then infect those who were infected before plus more people.

There are examples of this from the Middle Ages with the Black Death. I do not feel like reading through my history books to find his name, but there was a doctor who was infected with the Bubonic plague, lived, was infected a second time, and then died after the second infection.

Also, if China is saying an estimated 14% of people are getting reinfected, this leads me to believe infection rates are higher than what China is saying.
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Old 02-27-2020, 05:29 PM
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yup.

Reinfection is possible and likely.

One of the problems is decontamination as if you are sick in your house, get sent to the hospital then go home again you can reinfect yourself although unless you turn you heat off in a cold climate the virus will probably not live unless somewhere it can feed such as the toilet or food.

However, the body is hotter than room temperature so the virus will probably have a faster metabolism in you than in a cold room.

Likewise any personal belongings with you in hospital could have live virus.

Another issue is that negative test do not mean cured they just mean the virus is supressed as people can reexhibit in the body because the virus can "change" IN the body due to RNA mutation. Meaning the virus can mutate inside you while your body is trying to defend against it by creating specific immune antibodies.

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/...ion-of-viruses
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Old 02-27-2020, 05:42 PM
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This is very, very concerning. It does make me wonder IF they are actually totally over it or not. IOW, they "seem well" but really still have it? There is simply way too much we're not being told; making me believe we've not yet begun to see this for what it really may well be.
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Old 02-27-2020, 05:59 PM
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"One of the problems is decontamination as if you are sick in your house, get sent to the hospital then go home again you can reinfect yourself although unless you turn you heat off in a cold climate the virus will probably not live unless somewhere it can feed such as the toilet or food."

viruses don't eat. they can only replicate by taking over a host cell. some are not viable for long outside the host.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by William Ashley View Post
yup.

Reinfection is possible and likely.

One of the problems is decontamination as if you are sick in your house, get sent to the hospital then go home again you can reinfect yourself although unless you turn you heat off in a cold climate the virus will probably not live unless somewhere it can feed such as the toilet or food.

However, the body is hotter than room temperature so the virus will probably have a faster metabolism in you than in a cold room.

Likewise any personal belongings with you in hospital could have live virus.

Another issue is that negative test do not mean cured they just mean the virus is supressed as people can reexhibit in the body because the virus can "change" IN the body due to RNA mutation. Meaning the virus can mutate inside you while your body is trying to defend against it by creating specific immune antibodies.

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/...ion-of-viruses
Viruses don't feed or metabolize. They don't, strictly speaking, live. They are strands of genetic material encased in a protein sheath that can fool a cell into permitting access for the little strand of genetic material. Once inside, the stuff eventually bumps into the nucleus and inserts the virus's genetic code so that the cell is reprogrammed to become a manufacturing plant for more viruses. Eventually, the cell fills with them and ruptures. It's kind of horrifying when you think about it.

But you're basically right. Viruses can "live" for a time on household surfaces, especially moist surfaces. The survival time depends on the virus.

But I would think reinfection would depend on mutation. Immune antibodies are strain-specific (as far as I know) so the same strain of covid19 can't infect one person twice. But a mutated strain could infect a previous covid19 survivor, and the symptoms would be essentially the same.

I think we're seeing mutated strains of covid19 starting to "reinfect."
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:56 PM
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Maybe they didn't really reinfect, but just got the viruses down to a low enough level that they seemed OK, and then the few viruses left in them went wild multiplying again?
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Old 02-28-2020, 09:10 PM
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If it reinfects then this would mean over time 100% of the human population would be wiped out.

Because a 2% fatality rate and each infection is a new roll of the dice, at some point everyone dies.
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Old 02-29-2020, 10:56 AM
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So they got the virus, got symptoms, tested positive, got better, and still test positive. That is NOT the same as testing negative after recovery, then getting reinfected. They could still be a carrier and still infect others. There simply is no evidence they tested negative after recovery, and I think we've all heard how inaccurate the test is for COVID-19. It won't show a positive result for less than 300ppm of the virus, or something like that. People with less than 300ppm of the virus will show they don't have the virus, which is not accurate.

This is a new variation of a coronavirus so test kits cannot possibly be that accurate no matter what the gov't says. It can take years to develop a more accurate test kit for this variety, and to develop a vaccine.
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Old 02-29-2020, 11:02 AM
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This has me wondering about if they get a quick virus and start giving it out is it really going to be that effective.
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Old 02-29-2020, 03:08 PM
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I have no confidence in a vaccine IF they even develop one. I read somewhere some 166 different mutations discovered so far?

There are so many things about this that make it seem like it is something none of us have dealt with or anyone has in our lifetimes.
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Old 02-29-2020, 03:38 PM
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I think I have seen that movie too...

"Listen. Understand. That virus is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with. It doesn't feel pity of remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are dead."
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Old 02-29-2020, 04:12 PM
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Science experts report about this subject. https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...-for-2nd-time/
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Old 02-29-2020, 04:20 PM
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Interesting read thank you.
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Old 03-01-2020, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
So they got the virus, got symptoms, tested positive, got better, and still test positive. That is NOT the same as testing negative after recovery, then getting reinfected. They could still be a carrier and still infect others. There simply is no evidence they tested negative after recovery, and I think we've all heard how inaccurate the test is for COVID-19. It won't show a positive result for less than 300ppm of the virus, or something like that. People with less than 300ppm of the virus will show they don't have the virus, which is not accurate.

This is a new variation of a coronavirus so test kits cannot possibly be that accurate no matter what the gov't says. It can take years to develop a more accurate test kit for this variety, and to develop a vaccine.
Good thought. Like the Epstein-Barr virus (mononucleosis), it might just stay in your system forever, and possibly reactivate if your immune system becomes weak.

Mono was awful. I really don't want round two.
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Old 03-01-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Surviving Suburbia View Post
Good thought. Like the Epstein-Barr virus (mononucleosis), it might just stay in your system forever, and possibly reactivate if your immune system becomes weak.

Mono was awful. I really don't want round two.
Or like Mono, a simple test might show false positives for the you of your life.

Whatever the Chinese were testing originally, it sure didn’t seem to be a PCR test which tests for a fragment of the Virus.. It took CDC weeks to develop the test, and it could only be run by top labs ( and may have had a bug in the control procedure) China was up and running faster, and doing more tests- perhaps they are testing for antibodies (asELISA is used for HIV). Anyway. I have little faith In Technical details in MSM breaking news articles, and wouldn’t base any action on them.
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Old 03-01-2020, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Surviving Suburbia View Post
Viruses don't feed
they feed on cells and use them to propagate, they use host cell energy. When they infect a cell they are feeding on it. I did not say they consume the cell but they effectively are parasitic and parasites feed, hence the analogy.

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They don't, strictly speaking, live.
I disagree active viruses are living, they have a reproductive process. They are the sperm so to speak, and the cell is the egg.

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the same strain of covid19 can't infect one person twice.
sure it can. everytime the virus replicates is another point of infection and some of that material won't be mutated. The body may build up limited immunities as part of the defense process initiated by the immune system but you are categorically false in your accertion. We already know this can go dormant for a period and come back to life as well as well as the body to fail to activate defences thus symptoms.

"Once you have the infection, it could remain dormant and with minimal symptoms" That said your body needn't build specific defences to get rid of this, meaning your body won't build specific defences to prevent reinfection with the same strain - that said its not going to work the same way everytime. That is one of the wildcards with this virus, it is very variable with multiple mutations already out there. There are many instances where the immune system isn't triggered through flu or cold symptoms.. there are still people like you that think the virus works like it does for the cases that present to hospital with major illness, that is only one type of reaction to the virus. Worse so the :mild strains: can still mutate in the wild.. and with antiviral treatments, they may gain antiviral immunities as things progress.

also one person could have multiple strains active at one time in their body. (coinfection is a thing) (there are over 100 strains out there and growing)


Quote:
I think we're seeing mutated strains of covid19 starting to "reinfect."
I think both is possible based on the evidence that has been presented out there already.


We could say at the very least to prevent from pulling hairs since I am not strickly speaking biologically in my posting that viruses are a part of a living system and create great inputs into how living things in the body behave. They aquire energy to propegate from host cells that they "control" or "influence" and that they grow in number in the body and have DNA/RNA that can effect how cells they have a parasitic relationship with manage themselves, that is part of the propagation process.

Viruses have two major states of an active or living state and an inactive or dead state. Lay people think that viruses are killed through antivirals or chemicals like bleach. For all intents and purposes these may not be the correct biological definitions but it is how people think about them so in effectively communicating I am not going to write in a form that requires knowledge of virology.

This is not the correct format to pull hairs as this is not a board filled with people with extensive knowledge of biology.
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