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Old 06-04-2011, 02:24 AM
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So last night I went out to dinner with my boss and after a few drinks I asked her her opinion about all this end of the world 2012 stuff.

Well somehow the conversation switched to what is worth what when **** hits the fan. From there the conversation actually became interesting and she made a couple great points.

She started talking about Katrina, and the devastation that occurred there. Well she asked/stated this, she said "Do you really think that if someone would had gone to your house, and you were in that situation, would gold or silver be any use to you? Most people told others to get the he** off their property before they got shot. What people value is security, defense, and the means to acquire food, guns and ammo are the only thing that's going to be worth anything if sh** were to hit the fan."

She makes a valid argument. Gets one thinking.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:15 AM
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"You wanna buy some ammo off me? Got any gold or silver? I don't like those FRN's anymore."
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:54 AM
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Gold and silver are expensive and way overvalued. They are useless pieces of metal, unles your making cirucit boards or making medicine out of silver. Usless.

They only reasons they're valueable, because humans think it's shiney and worth something.

When resources are scarce, people will be bartering. However, you will be using $1000 of gold to get $100 of goods. Best to have the $100 of good and trade for $1000 of gold. However, this country is made up of over 300 million people. Easily 200 million have absolutely no means of providing anything for themselves. The remaining 100 million may have some land to provide themselves. My guess is about 20 million even have even a slight chance of providing a significant food resource for themselves.

If your trading stuff, you have extra. When the people you're trading with end up with nothing to trade and still need basic resources to live, they will do anything to aquire them. You traded their last gold coins for guns, don't sound too smart now.

In general, if a bad long term situation happens, 1 out of 15 people will have absolutely nothing worth trading. People have the means to survive for a week or two and thats it.

My plan is to lay as low as humanly possible for the first year. Trading is not in my plan during that time, period.

Gold and Silver, the new prom queen vote. People thought putting money down on google or Enron was a good bet. Well, people are being talked into having gold as an investment. When it becomes worthless, it sure is nicer to have something shiney than some fancy looking piece of paper.

I keep little track of gold prices, but looked today at a gold price chart site before posting. Since, 2002, gold has gone up 19% every year. With stocks, You invest in a company, they make profits, you get returns. Gold does not do that. You buy a hunk of metal, it stays a hunk of metal. You are not making money, your a keeping money. That what it used to be, it's not that anymore. It's a new way of folks skimming from the top of your retirements now. Last time I took an economics class was 2004. Gold goes up 19% every year, and inflation goes up 3%. no need for fancy math there. In a few years, I could see gold going down a good chunk and folks loosing a boatload of money. The folk obsessed with aquiring wealth know the rollercoaster ride game. They get out when on the top, while the casual thiller seekers jump out while going downhill. The folks who were wise during the market collapse, what did they do. They held on for a ride. I acutally invested in bad news. Ford might be going under, I put down on that. Same thing will happen to gold.

IF you really expect the US dollar to tank like some think it will, gold is not the answer. Leaving the country and living in a more stable economy is the answer. That is where my plan is. I am focusing my career on the place where I want to go. I have a country picked, I learned the language, and I am well versed in two booming industires in that region. I have relatives there and I know where I am going to live if need be.

IF prices get out of hand, this is my plan. Being able to make my own food. This is where prices will get wildy out of hand. It requires a good bit of fuel to get food to supermarkets, it requires trading with another country to get food, it is also a direly needed thing. Combine those three and you got a real good money maker right there. Work location, even when the economy tanks, you'll still be going to work, though someday it may seem a bit futile. Make sure you're not one of those people who lives farther away from work than you could ride a bike to.

I think economic hardship is much much more likely than some sort of zombie movie thing. Prepare you mind is the best thing. What makes human much greater over other animals is their minds. We are much more fragile animals than just about anything the walks or swims the planet. We survive because we use our heads. Learn how to garden, make sure you learn and have experience to do atleast 2-3 other important jobs incase you need a second job or need to find new work. Learn how to make do without modern conviences. Like pioneer skills. Making your own soap, preserving food, making household items without modern tools. Learn how to protect yourself. Both at the range and with your hands. Learn how to shoot a gun quickly, not more accurately like everyone else does. Conflicts happen at 50 yards or less. All that time folks spend sitting at a table spending 20 seconds shooting a bullet is useless, it's even useless for hunting in most cases too.

Far as investments go, I like as tangible as possible. IF times get rough, my spare tractor I bought real cheap will be worth lots of gold. My extra egg laying chickens will double in value. That food I bought on sale will be worth quite a bit too.

I do have some gold and silver. I keep them around incase I need something I can not provide for myself, which is less and less as time goes by. Paying property taxes, seeking assitance from a doctor, or in the case I need to pay off somebody. Don't expect sine you got gold, you can get anything.

Ammo and guns. Again bad idea to trade them. In all practicality, what are the odds of your coming out unharmed from a firearms based conflict. I looked at some police statistics based on their experiences with gunfights and came up with some numbers. I am assuming your a better shot than the other guy, which with cops is probably true most of the time to some extent. I forgot the exact numbers, but I think your chances of coming out unharmed from 10 conflicts was about 2%. The average conflict used 7 rounds. Without modern medicine, any gun shot is pretty much fatal, more from infection than blood or major function loss. Do you need 20,000 rounds for you rifle. Not really in my opinion. I have a good defensive carbine for everyone in the home plus a spare or two, a 22lr rifle for everyone, and a shotgun for everyone. Probably about 2000 rounds for each rifle, 15,000-20,000 rounds for each 22lr, and about 500 birdshot and maybe 100-200 rounds of buckshot for each shotgun. Past that, I have my hunting rifles and a historical gun or two. I think I am more set than I need to be.

The reason I got much more 22lr because it's affordable. A gun is worthless unless you know how to use it. I know I have enough ammunition to keep my skill good.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:31 AM
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yes....but what if you already have 3 years of food, 10 cases of cheap booze, 97guns and 50,000 rounds of ammo? do you buy metal then?
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:54 AM
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yes....but what if you already have 3 years of food, 10 cases of cheap booze, 97guns and 50,000 rounds of ammo? do you buy metal then?
You Bet!! Diversify and have as many bases covered as possible. PMs is one of those bases. If you never have the need to use PMs than you have covered your other bases well.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:02 AM
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Leaving the country and living in a more stable economy is the answer. That is where my plan is.......

You seem to have missed the facts that the PTB have their fingers in every country, what is coming,is coming EVERYWHERE,and you'll eventually still be in the same boat as everyone else. The idea that we can flee to a safe,sane country like was done in WWII, is no longer based in reality.
I spent many years living out of the USA, and I came to the conclusion that when things inevtably get really hairy, the best place for an American to be, is in America. Nevertheless, there's a Globalist,totalitarian nightmare in our future,and flying off to Costa Rica or wherever, isn't going to shield you from it.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by paramilusmc View Post
So last night I went out to dinner with my boss and after a few drinks I asked her her opinion about all this end of the world 2012 stuff.

Well somehow the conversation switched to what is worth what when **** hits the fan. From there the conversation actually became interesting and she made a couple great points.

She started talking about Katrina, and the devastation that occurred there. Well she asked/stated this, she said "Do you really think that if someone would had gone to your house, and you were in that situation, would gold or silver be any use to you? Most people told others to get the he** off their property before they got shot. What people value is security, defense, and the means to acquire food, guns and ammo are the only thing that's going to be worth anything if sh** were to hit the fan."

She makes a valid argument. Gets one thinking.
What she says is true... but those with good foresight and already well prepped would have done well to trade some food and ammo for those gold ounces. Reason is Katrina would eventually pass and then they would have to join the rest of the world again.

Say you do trade a Gold Eagle during katrina for some food and ammo. Or 10 gold eagles for a handgun or something. Does that gold do any good at that time? Surely not; they are hunks of metal at that point. But look 3 years later. That person has 1,000$ for that food and ammo that cost 20$ to replace. Or a handgun that cost them a few hundred now has 15,000$ to spend on other preps.

Why do so many plan for the SHTF event and not AFTERWARDS?!?! It is like the couple that puts so much planning on the wedding and spending 20 grand but never think about the 50 years AFTER the wedding...

Last edited by vicdotcom; 06-04-2011 at 07:57 PM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:35 AM
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Katrina could look like pre-school compared to whats coming
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:11 AM
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Food, security is paramount at first, indeed, gold and silver don't mean jack squat. During a short-term, localized event (hurricane, tornado, earthquake) they won't be much use.

Converting some FRN's to gold & silver is merely a way of preserving your wealth through a SHTF event.

Regardless of how useful (or useless) you think it will be during SHTF, I think we can all agree it will be more useful than the computer at your bank that says you have $1,000 in your account.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:10 AM
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Toilet paper will be the new gold
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by paramilusmc View Post
So last night I went out to dinner with my boss and after a few drinks I asked her her opinion about all this end of the world 2012 stuff.

Well somehow the conversation switched to what is worth what when **** hits the fan. From there the conversation actually became interesting and she made a couple great points.

She started talking about Katrina, and the devastation that occurred there. Well she asked/stated this, she said "Do you really think that if someone would had gone to your house, and you were in that situation, would gold or silver be any use to you? Most people told others to get the he** off their property before they got shot. What people value is security, defense, and the means to acquire food, guns and ammo are the only thing that's going to be worth anything if sh** were to hit the fan."

She makes a valid argument. Gets one thinking.
A stash of solar panels might be good too.

Trouble is storing them for now.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:30 PM
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Good arguments OP. However, I believe like many here that the ammo+guns economy will only last for so long. Then what? TP? Seeds? Yes and yes. Then what? The economy will evolve.

People will not forget 5,000 years of history where precious metals had value. They aren't called precious for nothing after all.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:53 PM
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Wouldn't it be a good idea to focus on preps to survive shtf and after you have the necessary preps to survive then spend the money on gold,silver.
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:26 PM
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my investment priorities are, in this order

- ways to purifiy and store water in big volumes
-6-12 months of food supplies ( and as many water i can store )
- guns and ammo for personal use
-ammo and cheap guns as a currency
- ways to make crops , and ways to produce energy
- stockpile of precious metals ( NOT FOR TRADING)

that plan works only if citizens will have access to guns , because nobody can forecast the price of ammo in a gunless society ( like israel). it will have a very limited market (mostly criminals) , but may have a huge value. no one really knows.

the stockpile of precious metals in my plan is a way to recover a part of your wealth only AFTER SHTF ,as i believe the new economy will be gold based , just like USD a few decades ago ( gold will always be precious for timeless reasons , and it dont rust).
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:51 PM
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I have PM's for a hedge against inflation. Gold and silver are REAL MONEY. Utah recently passed legislation allowing gold and silver to be used as real money.

And here is another clue why you should have PM's. China, India, and even Mexico are buying gold by the TON. Why do you think they are purchasing so much PM's? Because eventually all fiat currencies return to their true value, ZERO.

In Zimbabwe people were panning for gold to buy food. No gold, no food. Many people in Argentina used gold rings, chains, etc. for bartering.

Water, food, OPSEC are top priorities for sure. I don't plan on bartering much of anything in a SHTF situation. I plan on being out of sight out of mind for the first 6-12 months waiting for the initial die off of those who have not prepared. Once most of the looters are dead, then we can start to rebuild.
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:02 AM
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Water, food, OPSEC are top priorities for sure. I don't plan on bartering much of anything in a SHTF situation. I plan on being out of sight out of mind for the first 6-12 months waiting for the initial die off of those who have not prepared. Once most of the looters are dead, then we can start to rebuild.
man this exactly what i plan to do . i dont know exactly how you prep but for me any scenario that includes a massive death of earth population also include serious NBC protection ( i once volunteered in the MDA , its like red cross in israel , and i was in a NBC unit , so i "borrowed" NBC jumpsuits and masks from the period i was working on swine flu cases.)
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:11 AM
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This subject has been beat to death! People who find future value in PMs, or guns and ammo, like my self, will have a good supply! Those who dont, wont!
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:16 AM
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A stash of solar panels might be good too.

Trouble is storing them for now.
Well even in a actual WSHTF scenario, big blue panels are a dead give away, and probably attract more attention then is necessary. Not trying to argue your point, just thought it should be mentioned.

Your all talking after the world recovers. Who is to say that the dollar doesn't recover and again become the standard the economy is based on? You don't think a government (maybe for nothing more than ease) would just reuse the already established currency?

I'm not arguing with anybody, but makes one think, and in a forum of uncertainty isn't that what we are all here for, to think outside of the box?
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:32 AM
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Your all talking after the world recovers. Who is to say that the dollar doesn't recover and again become the standard the economy is based on? You don't think a government (maybe for nothing more than ease) would just reuse the already established currency?

I'm not arguing with anybody, but makes one think, and in a forum of uncertainty isn't that what we are all here for, to think outside of the box?
fiat money is based on trust . if a currency hyper-inflate , people will not trust his value and then it cannot be reused (like in Germany , Hungary , Greece , Yougoslavia and recently Zimbabwe)
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:42 AM
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Gold and Silver, the new prom queen vote. People thought putting money down on google or Enron was a good bet. Well, people are being talked into having gold as an investment. When it becomes worthless, it sure is nicer to have something shiney than some fancy looking piece of paper.
Gold and silver have never become worthless. In a crisis something will be more valuable for periods of time but gold and silver will always have value.
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