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Old 06-18-2019, 05:33 PM
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Default Sig P320 - M17 - M18 Dominates



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All branches of the military have now adopted the M17 and M18
More and more law enforcement entities are doing the same
I have a .45 ACP P320
Love that gun
See Hickok45 reviews of the three modular P320 9mm varients for more information
Reports from military are glowing
All the bugs worked out
Just a fantastic striker-fire pistol
As good as, or better than any other striker-fired pistol.



U.S. Marine Corps Adoption of M18 Underscores Success of SIG SAUER MHS Program


NEWINGTON, N.H. –-(Ammoland.com)- SIG SAUER, Inc. is honored to announce that the United States Marine Corps (USMC) is set to adopt the M18, the compact variant of the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), as their official duty pistol.


“The Marine Corps announcement to put the M18 in service with the Marines is a very exciting development for SIG SAUER, and a true testament to the success of the MHS program,” began Ron Cohen, President & CEO, SIG SAUER, Inc. “The Marine’s procurement of the M18 brings the adoption of our Modular Handgun System full circle, as this means, beginning in 2020, either the M17 or the M18 will be officially in service with every branch of the U.S. Military.”

The M18 is a 9mm, striker-fired pistol featuring a coyote-tan PVD coated stainless steel slide with black controls. The pistol is equipped with SIGLITE front night sights and removable night sight rear plate, and manual safety.


Recently, the M18 successfully completed a MHS Material Reliability Test that consisted of firing three M18 pistols to 12,000 rounds each for a total of 36,000 rounds in accordance with the MHS requirements. Comparatively, the U.S. Army’s legacy pistol was only tested to 5,000 rounds making the test duration for the M18 pistol 2.4 times greater than that of the legacy pistol. In this testing, the M18 experienced zero stoppages despite being allowed up to twelve stoppages. Additionally, the M18 passed a parts interchange test, and met stringent accuracy and dispersion requirements.

“The success of the MHS program is the direct result of the indisputable performance and superior quality of the M17 and M18 pistols, and the commitment and dedication of the men and women of SIG SAUER to those that serve in the defense of freedom,” continued Cohen. “We are very proud, and humbled, to have earned the trust of every branch of the U.S. Military through their acceptance of the MHS program and adoption of the M17 and M18 pistols.”

Currently, the M17 and M18 are in service with the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard. The USMC will begin their acquisition of the M18 pistol in 2020.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:24 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is online now
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just proof the military is more than capable of making stupid decisions and all the drones who cannot think for themselves will rush out and buy them just because the military made the dumb decision to go with them
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:35 PM
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Translation: Manufacturer releases a glowing pat-on-the-back about their own product.

I remember the same ball spiking back when the M9 was fielded to all of DoD plus multiple federal agencies. Beretta basking in the glow of their procurement contracting success.

But, out in the grunt level real world, the M9 never panned out the way Beretta claimed. Time will tell with the new guns. Almost all new weapons have teething issues or hidden flaws that become apparent only after widespread issue. The newly adopted SIGs have already demonstrated some failings. Addressable with re-engineering & modification, but failings nonetheless.

At this point, it's still too early to tell. I'm in a wait and see mode with this one. I hope the SIGs work out, but I'll not count on that until after a few years of hard use by certain pistol-centric units.

Because I've seen this movie before.

I am happy to see the USMC adopt the design that everyone else has committed to. That decision makes both military and economic sense. Notwithstanding that they probably had to be told to do so.

At least they went with the M18 vice the M17. Better choice for already crowded on-body shooter holster real estate and also more easily purposed for concealment. The same reasons G19s were favored 10 to 1 over G17s in my old unit. It's just a more practically sized envelope for combatant, soft profile, or plain clothes use.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:41 PM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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Have a lot of police agencies carrying the P320 as their primary duty sidearm. A number of them well before the military announced its choice to replace the M9. So it must not be that bad of a handgun.

I've had the opportunity to hold the civilian version. It's not a bad weapon. I'm just not convinced of the need for yet another pistol at this time when there are several in the stable that enjoy regular rotation.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:59 PM
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sig phoned that one in, they were so desperate to try to cash in on the striker fired market, that they took a gun they already had, that they knew had problems, quite possibly the same ones plaguing the P320, and converted it to a striker by changing a couple parts internally.. thats one of the reasons the bore axis is so comically high (like an inch higher than a glock or M&P) which on a super light polymer frames gun tends to translate into excess muzzle flip and felt recoil

at least glock, smith and wesson, ruger, walther, H&K, etc had the decency to make a new gun to get into the striker market, and not retrofit some piece of junk they already had
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:26 PM
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I have a hard time deciding if I should ignore my personal experience, the opinion of Hickok45, who's opinion I value, or that of a drone on the internet who seems to have a par golf I.Q.
Hickock45 says exactly what I think, that it is superb handgun, as good as it gets.
I will have to think about it.
Really tough decision.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:23 PM
Disturbed70 Disturbed70 is offline
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Now look at what the units in the various branches that use handguns to shoot people fairly regularly, are using. Hint - none of them are using the M17 or M18.

Sig underbid everyone else by a significant margin. When buying for the masses, that matters, providing they can pass testing. Note that they specifically stated the Sig outperformed the legacy handgun. Not the other competitors.

As far as LE contracts go, per Sig's own media releases, 12 US departments have transitioned to the P320 in the last 13 months, amd one has added them to the authorized list. Hardly a stampede on the part of domestic LE.

I own a P320. I don't hate them. They aren't better than any of the other striker-fired guns out there, by any measurable metric.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:40 PM
justin22885 justin22885 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
I have a hard time deciding if I should ignore my personal experience, the opinion of Hickok45, who's opinion I value, or that of a drone on the internet who seems to have a par golf I.Q.
Hickock45 says exactly what I think, that it is superb handgun, as good as it gets.
I will have to think about it.
Really tough decision.
oh trust me, theres a hell of a lot of people out there that think glocks, M&Ps, PPQs, and VP9s, plus a long list of other striker guns, are better than the P320, youre just one of those people who got suckered into thinking theyre the greatest thing since sliced bread because the military adopted them

i lost respect for anything hickok45 has to say when he came out in support of the NRAs statement against bumpfire stocks
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
sig phoned that one in, they were so desperate to try to cash in on the striker fired market, that they took a gun they already had, that they knew had problems, quite possibly the same ones plaguing the P320, and converted it to a striker by changing a couple parts internally.. thats one of the reasons the bore axis is so comically high (like an inch higher than a glock or M&P) which on a super light polymer frames gun tends to translate into excess muzzle flip and felt recoil

at least glock, smith and wesson, ruger, walther, H&K, etc had the decency to make a new gun to get into the striker market, and not retrofit some piece of junk they already had
1/2" higher than Glock 1/3" higher than M&P.

https://www.guntweaks.com/pistol-bore-axis-comparison-what-is-low-bore-axis.html
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:27 AM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
I have a hard time deciding if I should ignore my personal experience, the opinion of Hickok45, who's opinion I value, or that of a drone on the internet who seems to have a par golf I.Q.
Hickock45 says exactly what I think, that it is superb handgun, as good as it gets.
I will have to think about it.
Really tough decision.
"ceases to function in a light drizzle"......that's really all you need to know when making your decision.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
I have a hard time deciding if I should ignore my personal experience, the opinion of Hickok45, who's opinion I value, or that of a drone on the internet who seems to have a par golf I.Q.
Hickock45 says exactly what I think, that it is superb handgun, as good as it gets.
I will have to think about it.
Really tough decision.

Is the par for 18 holes?
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:07 AM
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No, I was thinking a nine hole executive course
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:11 AM
InOmaha InOmaha is offline
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Didn't Glock need to "take their existing design" and fudge a safety on it in order to bid? You know, swap out and add a couple of internal parts. Nothing says the Glock the military would have gotten wouldn't have had design issues, based on the fact it is a different Glock then the Glock people are trying to compare to the SIG.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:01 AM
justin22885 justin22885 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuriss View Post
1/2" higher than Glock 1/3" higher than M&P.

https://www.guntweaks.com/pistol-bor...bore-axis.html
lmfao, roughly the same as a P226 or a beretta M9, higher bore axis than a 1911.. do i need any more proof to point out this gun was a hammer gun with a striker retrofitted into it?
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InOmaha View Post
Didn't Glock need to "take their existing design" and fudge a safety on it in order to bid? You know, swap out and add a couple of internal parts. Nothing says the Glock the military would have gotten wouldn't have had design issues, based on the fact it is a different Glock then the Glock people are trying to compare to the SIG.
it doesnt require a redesign of the glock to add a safety, there are aftermarket kits to install manual safeties onto pretty much any glock you already have.. if that required re-engineering the internals, it wouldnt be available in a simple to install kit, so no

but you could also compare the P320 to an M&P which is a much more proven design, reliable, and already has a safety option

theres nothing that can excuse the P320 choice
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:12 AM
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Agree it started out as a 250 based design
The 2020 Mustang GT500 started out as a Mustang
The trigger is far, far better than the 250
Why does it matter how it started out?
You are not making any sense
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:25 AM
justin22885 justin22885 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Agree it started out as a 250 based design
The 2020 Mustang GT500 started out as a Mustang
The trigger is far, far better than the 250
Why does it matter how it started out?
You are not making any sense
youre trying to compare a GT500 being a modified version of the base mustang, which is a performance package, to sig arms cutting corners just to get something out there to ride the striker bandwagon with?.. surely you have a better argument than that

and it does matter how it started out, because the P250 had major problems, so much so major contracts for the P250 were canceled due to safety concerns, sig ended up with a ton of junk pistols nobody wanted anymore, so they shoved a striker into them hoping people would be too dumb to figure out it was essentially the same gun and buy them.. they knowingly dressed up and resold a broken and failed product, and since you got suckered into buying one because the military decided to go with them, you're in ego defense mode
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:34 AM
InOmaha InOmaha is offline
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Don't worry. In 30-40 years, Glock will get another chance.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:41 AM
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I got it based on Hickok45's review from years ago
No more, no less
He said there is none better
He said there were choices that were comparable
He said it had for him, the best grip feel of any choices
He demonstrated and commented on its great accuracy and great trigger
The Marine testing, which came long after I had my P320 .45 ACP, had zero failures in 16,000 rounds
My experience has been exactly as Hickok45's, and the Marines for that matter
The primary point of the thread was to discuss the total adoption of the P320 aka M17/M18 by all U.S. military branches.
So much fail in your post
Why are you so arse-hurt?
Did your mommy potty-train you with a 250 and you are permanently traumatized and unable to speak with reason?
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:51 AM
justin22885 justin22885 is online now
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so do you always take youtubers word for it? i try things out for myself, shoot things for myself, and formulate my own opinions, even the half-assed phoning it in broken gun they tried to repackage aside, glocks, M&Ps, and PPQs are better on almost every level

now if sig made a full size version of the P365, that may be a better gun over all as it seems to take the positive features of the P320, and put them into an actual striker gun, possibly with lessons they learned from the P320 being their first practice run at striker guns
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