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Old 03-24-2015, 09:36 AM
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:02 AM
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easy money, dig a large tree stump out, hollow it from the bottom leaving structural material, bolt the bottom to a hinged lid, bolt to top of hole... leave it heavy enough that it isnt easily moved but light enough to lift...
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:39 AM
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What ever you do should match the surroundings,
A tree stump where there are no trees that size is out of place.
A boulder where the are no boulders is out of place.
A door (removable box frame) might do well to have dirt and stone glued to it matching what is around,as well as weeds growing in it that match those all around .
I would recommend using a plastic for the framework and box door ,
1. it won't rust and it will hold moisture to keep the plant life alive.
2. metal detector won't respond to it.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:07 AM
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Wow, so many replies since I last visited! I will try to generalize some things and quote as little as possible, the message will be long as is.

The problem with putting a chunk of treestump or something like that is that you have to move it and the entrance is completely exposed when you are inside, it's only useful when you are not using it.

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Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
text
The problem with gluing stuff, unless it's gravel, is that it will dry up and die. A dead square of grass and leaves and whatnot is definitely going to look peculiar. Even if I do like that, I can't think of a proper way to do it.

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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
text
The problem with something big (like a car) is that I can't get it there. There are too many trees and that would leave a big tire trail even if there was a way.

So far I like unfinished and abandoned structure idea. I could make that work, but it would still be at least partly dangerous for a discovery. Best so far, but looking for better.

The problem with trees is that people, especially those in need of firewood, may be very interested in packed up abandoned dry firewood, not to mention it'd look peculiar in the middle of the forest.

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Originally Posted by harbinger1972 View Post
Something like this
Would have to be modified but you get the idea.
If I'm going to the super shrubby part of the woods, that means a lot of humidity. The land is almost always wet around very shrubby areas. The only solution would be spending way more than I'd like to build a thick layer of insulation.


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Originally Posted by Mtnman Mike View Post
To completely answer your questions I would have to know more such as what state or country you are in and if you are in a remote area. The more remote the better and more likely you will "get away" with building a structure on public land.

I infer that you do not own land and that you will be building on a national forest or some kind of public land. It would be Much better if you did own the land or at least could build on a friend or relative's land with their permission.

In the early 1980's I thought much the same as you and many who post and want to camp, live, build in the woods, national forest etc. I learned quickly that it is very difficult to find and keep a safe secret place, especially on land that you do not own. I fortunately found my own land, bought it and since 1987 have been slowly building what I wish and need. And I do like to share my mtn place with a Few good people if they contact me by email or private message before summer.

Plz tell If you do build and how long before a hiker, hunter or public official discovers what you built. And Hope you do not get in trouble or fined or worse for building on "government / public" land. And hope you spend very little money since you will likely not be allowed to stay there Unless it is in a very remote area and no one will harass you....
I was actually working it out with a friend, but apparently he's gonna build a resort on his land, but he let me practice working in such environment on his land. Like shoveling a big hole or axing trees. Haven't done that, so it's going to be useful experience. Besides, I'll help him out for a couple of days while I figure out what's the best way to do all of that, so why not.

Anyway, you are correct in assuming that it will be on public land, I'm not sure whether or not it's a forest, but I'm thinking at least a mile away from any hiking tracks. There are some hiking tracks, but we just call it a "forest nearby" that's all.

I will try to spend as little as possible, I'm going to chop down some smaller trees out of the more foresty area, saw them up and use them for walls. I'm going to be bringing my stuff in and out in a backpack every time I visit, so that if by some chance it is discovered, nothing of valuable would be inside. I will have to spend $10-20 for insulation, as mentioned above, but probably not more than that. I already own a bunch of tools that I will use.

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Originally Posted by Mtnman Mike View Post
But IF you think you might be able to camoflage a hidden structure such as an underground shelter then just use the terrain, use logs, rocks, brush - whatever it takes for camoflage. I learned by Doing and reading up some on camoflage techniques which should not be too difficult to learn on the net, even from this forum.

Be well off of trails and if possible do not have your own trail that others can follow to your structure. In a few weeks or months plz tell how it works out...
Thanks for the link and advice. Using the terrain is not too hard for me naturally, I'm attuned to nature it seems. But using the terrain to hide something means that you have to move it whenever you need to use it, meaning it will stay uncovered while you are inside.

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Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
text
For keeping the structure dry, I'm planning to buy plastic film and cover the earth in it before building the wall, and I'm going to avoid heating it up. There isn't even going to be electricity there and I certainly can't set a fire in a wooden structure, not to mention smoke that would give it up. I'm planning to use candles and flashlights. I think that should be enough, since there won't be significant temperature changes. Going to put it 10-15in underground, so even the natural day and night temperature changes won't going to affect it very much, and the film will keep the moisture from earth away from the wooden structure. Not a completely foolproof and longterm design, but I'm not planning to use it for more than a couple to few years. Then I'm planning to buy my own land in a different location and so I will not be needing this place anymore.

I think I touched the most important points throughout the replies, even if not in the most direct manner.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:36 AM
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Also read up about the Cu Chi Tunnels in Vietnam....
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:59 AM
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Also read up about the Cu Chi Tunnels in Vietnam....
Very impressive, what I have learned in only five minutes so far.

I like the entrance. The cover issue is still here, but now it's less severe because I saw a way to make a small entrance. I'll add a pic for anyone to save time. I thought in terms of a 30x30in entrance up until now, but this looks as little as 20x10in. Very nice idea. Gonna be a bit harder to achieve, but I have no problem with harder tasks.

With such small entrance it may even be possible to use exactly the same entrance, then I can use the environment to cover it up. The only thing that I would need is to figure out a way to "glue" things in a way that won't render them dead and create a peculiar piece of ground.

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Old 03-25-2015, 05:31 AM
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Fossilcrete is one way you can build a lightweight boulder to cover your entrance or make the entrance blend in with the area.

Just a sample of what you can do with fossilcrete.
http://www.vegasdecorativeconcrete.c...points/pavers/

Many how to videos on youtube can help with design and structuring boulders, rocks, and background colors.

I have seen different things made from fossilcrete and its absolutely awesome.
One day I hope to play with it.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerbulder View Post
The problem with something big (like a car) is that I can't get it there. There are too many trees and that would leave a big tire trail even if there was a way.

So far I like unfinished and abandoned structure idea. I could make that work, but it would still be at least partly dangerous for a discovery. Best so far, but looking for better.

The problem with trees is that people, especially those in need of firewood, may be very interested in packed up abandoned dry firewood, not to mention it'd look peculiar in the middle of the forest.
Since there was no indication in the OP of any general type of terrain, the automobile was simply one of several ideas. Again, not a hard and fast recommendation, just an option, if the circumstances fit. But even with the limited space you mention, do not completely eliminate the idea. It does not have to be a big Cadillac. Even just the cab of an old truck would work. Or the remains of a tiny import. And it does not have to be dragged on the wheels. Depending on the ground conditions it might be able to be hauled in on a truck with high flotation tires that would not leave much mark, or that the evidence of which could be removed. Of course that might not work either. But using a game cart to haul in various pieces and parts might be an option to create the same effect. Just the hood of a car, especially a fifties model with the big curved down front section, and say, one door, lying abandoned could be enough of a hide for the entrance.

Also, be aware that no matter how well hidden something is, random chance can cause it to be exposed. There are no guarantees.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
Since there was no indication in the OP of any general type of terrain, the automobile was simply one of several ideas. Again, not a hard and fast recommendation, just an option, if the circumstances fit. But even with the limited space you mention, do not completely eliminate the idea. It does not have to be a big Cadillac. Even just the cab of an old truck would work. Or the remains of a tiny import. And it does not have to be dragged on the wheels. Depending on the ground conditions it might be able to be hauled in on a truck with high flotation tires that would not leave much mark, or that the evidence of which could be removed. Of course that might not work either. But using a game cart to haul in various pieces and parts might be an option to create the same effect. Just the hood of a car, especially a fifties model with the big curved down front section, and say, one door, lying abandoned could be enough of a hide for the entrance.

Also, be aware that no matter how well hidden something is, random chance can cause it to be exposed. There are no guarantees.

Just my opinion.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the idea, I just applied it to my situation. The idea itself is great if you can utilize it properly. I think it would be very useful in a desert for example - a broken down car in the middle of nowhere, who's gonna care? At best, come about, see it being rusty, and walk away.

It was interesting to read on different tires, I wasn't aware that such existed. As for gathering parts... Well, over here they don't stay abandoned for too long. Bums are active, they scavenge everything that isn't nailed down. Leave a bucket by a bush, you can bet to find it at a scrap yard the next morning. A car would be hard to move though, if we're talking about the body.

Anyway, so far I'm liking the unfinished house idea, but I like the small tiny entrance idea even more. The only problem with that may be getting in the backpack, but everything's manageable as long as there isn't a better solution at hand that is in part with concealment. I still need to think of a good way to hide it completely while I'm inside... But I think I should figure that out. Still, open to suggestions.

And yes, of course there is always a chance of someone accidentally stepping on it or their dog digging there, or them digging there, or them setting up a tent on top of it, etc., etc.. But that is out of my control unfortunately, so I'm not really worried about it, I'm more of... Just accepting the possibility.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:16 PM
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if you own the land a simple shed on top is good enough. You can't hide something from everyone. Heck in Canada they found someone who dug a bunker on public land they simply wanted to do it. They came forward and it was no big deal. You can't do what you want on public land in the Usa. If you own t you have vents and entrance to hide a shed that you have a trap door in with a barrel sitting on top is a good way to hide it.

The problem with a car is it adds weight and depending on how well you build it might cave in.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:27 PM
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If someone could figure out a way to hide an entrance under an outhouse, it would be pretty safe. No one is going to poke around there very much. LOL
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by haha49 View Post
if you own the land a simple shed on top is good enough. You can't hide something from everyone. Heck in Canada they found someone who dug a bunker on public land they simply wanted to do it. They came forward and it was no big deal. You can't do what you want on public land in the Usa. If you own t you have vents and entrance to hide a shed that you have a trap door in with a barrel sitting on top is a good way to hide it.

The problem with a car is it adds weight and depending on how well you build it might cave in.
Unfortunately for the next couple to a few years I won't be able to buy any land.

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If someone could figure out a way to hide an entrance under an outhouse, it would be pretty safe. No one is going to poke around there very much. LOL
Just switch the phone call with a flush...

https://youtu.be/ElqZms_SUjg?t=39s
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:19 PM
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If you have old cars on your property you can use the hood or the trunk or even the inside the car as entrance just cut out the bottom or I've seen a lot a you build a small crap looking shack hiding the entrance
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerbulder View Post
Very impressive, what I have learned in only five minutes so far.

I like the entrance. The cover issue is still here, but now it's less severe because I saw a way to make a small entrance. I'll add a pic for anyone to save time. I thought in terms of a 30x30in entrance up until now, but this looks as little as 20x10in. Very nice idea. Gonna be a bit harder to achieve, but I have no problem with harder tasks.

With such small entrance it may even be possible to use exactly the same entrance, then I can use the environment to cover it up. The only thing that I would need is to figure out a way to "glue" things in a way that won't render them dead and create a peculiar piece of ground.

Whatever you decide make sure you have multiple exits...I work in a mine and have 3 entry/exits.....
Depending what part of the country you are building in research your deadly critters...You could just be making a great motel for deadly snakes and such...Check where your snow drifts are if you have winter...Check after a heavy rain where it pools up....Lots to think about..When I dug in my mines or my crawl space I was on my knees with a 5 gallon bucket and a hammer pick clearing the dirt....The VC were masters at building tunnels and under ground bunkers....
Do it on land you have permission to be on though...The very best to you...
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rancher1913 View Post
listen to mtnmike he's been there and done that. hey mike do you ever need a mini excavator up at your hold--might have to see if we were to bring mine if the family could camp up there for a weekend this summer.
Thanks for the good words. I have not done or do not know Everything but since learning and Doing survival, mainly in the Rocky Mountains since 1982, I hope I know quite a bit.
And I might be able to use a mini excavator if you wish to bring it. It likely would not be possible to haul or even winch an excavator up the mountain 200 feet from where you would park. Over 2 springs, thru thick trees etc. But I could use an excavator on a spring to deepen it like a moat and maybe in one or two other places near the dirt road.

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Originally Posted by Steverino View Post
Hogans Heroes..

I actually tried doing something like that, even moving a tree stump up near the back trap door of my bunker. But I would have to add to that stump and do much more work which will be easier with one or two others to help. A tree stump and other camo is not my highest priority. People just have to see the area to totally understand.

Here is what I have used to camo the black stovepipe that comes up out of the bunker, so that people walking or driving by on the private dirt road cannot see the black stovepipe.

Close-up of concrete roof and stovepipe >




Back trap door showing 3 foot thick rock and concrete roof. Took 250 eighty pound bags of concrete mix to make the concrete roof. >



I might be able to use logs and as much of a tree stump as possible but I likely will have a shed or tunnel made of logs running from this back door to my new cabin 30 feet over the mountain.

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Originally Posted by bunkerbulder View Post

With such small entrance it may even be possible to use exactly the same entrance, then I can use the environment to cover it up. The only thing that I would need is to figure out a way to "glue" things in a way that won't render them dead and create a peculiar piece of ground.

That reminds me much of a show I saw on Doomsday Preppers. 2 or 3 years ago I downloaded several of those shows. That tv show was about a guy who owned quite a bit of land in California and his main plan was to have "spider holes" around to hide in then come out after a couple days and take back his house.... Some of you likely saw that episode?

A spider hole is not too bad although I thought it was far too much like a coffin. But it was very well camoflaged and a person could lay in it and read, eat, even relax if you did not have claustrophobia.
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Old 03-26-2015, 05:02 PM
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I thought about running a stove pipe through one of those concrete imitation hollow trees. I have seen them for sale at garden shops. I think I even saw one at Lowe's a couple of years ago. They are designed for running water in a Koi pond.
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:36 PM
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The only thing that I would need is to figure out a way to "glue" things in a way that won't render them dead and create a peculiar piece of ground.
Don't glue, cover with a thin rough layer of plaster or Portland cement then drop a culture of moss native to that environment (most moss has no roots and only requires water and air to grow). 1" staples into a 3/4 square of plywood is what I used on my commercial (non)septic tank dig with two manholes. One outside and one under the edge of an A-frame accessible from the inside - that was the first thing I put on the property up in Maine.

At least for the moss up there, find a 6-inch square of moss and toss it in a blender with a cup of milk. Blend until chunky and then pour over the doorway cover. Set it outside for at least two weeks and you should have great coverage from edge to edge. I left mine for 6 weeks on a over-sized trash bag and had flaps which hid the shape of the door hatch.

Hope that helps.

Also, include lighting, stick to an LED 12v system, they generate nearly no heat. Otherwise you'll need a headlamp or flashlight every time you go down and that gets old fast. Our solution was to put up a panel on the side of the A-frame and a cable from the battery box to the commercial tank adjacent to the portal under the A-frame. I also have two vents, one under the structure and another at the extreme end of the tank extended 20-ft with 4-inch pipe to my favorite thorn plant - Gooseberries. We are on a slope so drainage was easy.

Last edited by ashed; 03-26-2015 at 06:49 PM.. Reason: Additional detail
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:47 PM
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:02 PM
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You're working hard to do something simple. You need to conceal an entrance. You need to have the ground look undisturbed. Ever consider a false rock or bush with a trap door under it? Dont make it complicated, make it simple.
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:14 PM
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I use artificial Christmas trees for camo on my deer blinds. Today's artificial trees look pretty real and I see them being put out the road every now and then so the cost is minimal.

This could easily conceal an air inlet.
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