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Seeds In Danger

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12K views 75 replies 21 participants last post by  HereToStay 
#1 ·
Hi all! As most sustainable growers on here know, our seed is in danger. Hence, why we purchase "heirloom" varieties. You can take the fruit of the crop, dry the seeds and use them to grow more crop, whereas most seeds produce fruit that have useless seeds due to genetic modification.

I came across this today, and I hope this film gets the backing it deserves so it can actually be produced and distributed. (NO, i am not paid to put this thread on here, I just think it looks like a very promising film and is a good public educational device.)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/seankaminsky/open-sesame-the-story-of-seeds?ref=thanks
 
#2 ·
Hi all! As most sustainable growers on here know, our seed is in danger.
How? I have no problems buying the varieties that my family has being growing for 70 or so years.

Hence, why we purchase "heirloom" varieties. You can take the fruit of the crop, dry the seeds and use them to grow more crop, whereas most seeds produce fruit that have useless seeds due to genetic modification.
Please, tell me, what seeds the general public would plant that have been genetically modified? Where would you buy such seeds? Walmart? The dollar store? The local seed and plant nursery?

I came across this today, and I hope this film gets the backing it deserves so it can actually be produced and distributed. (NO, i am not paid to put this thread on here, I just think it looks like a very promising film and is a good public educational device.)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/seankaminsky/open-sesame-the-story-of-seeds?ref=thanks
The public would be more interested in the new James Bond film I think, or perhaps the next Die Hard. The message in the film is misguided - the only patented seeds I know of are GM seeds - I do not have a problem with this as I do not use them. Anyone that cares about GM seeds being patented would not be using them anyway in my eyes.
 
#3 ·
How? I have no problems buying the varieties that my family has being growing for 70 or so years.
Exactly my point. What happens when you CAN'T go purchase seed anymore? Can you actually grow a productive crop using the seed from the crops you currently grow?


Please, tell me, what seeds the general public would plant that have been genetically modified? Where would you buy such seeds? Walmart? The dollar store? The local seed and plant nursery?
The majority of seed sold in stores to the general public (hybrid) are not capable of producing seeds that will produce seedlings just like the parent plant. Saving seeds from produce grown with hybrid seeds is pointless, as most the seed will not come true. A plant might grow, but it most likely will not produce fruit. First generation hybrids (F1 hybrids), have been hand-pollinated, and are patented, often sterile, genetically identical within food types, and sold from multinational seed companies.

The public would be more interested in the new James Bond film I think, or perhaps the next Die Hard. The message in the film is misguided - the only patented seeds I know of are GM seeds - I do not have a problem with this as I do not use them. Anyone that cares about GM seeds being patented would not be using them anyway in my eyes.
Ever hear of wind scatter? Doesn't matter if you use them or not. GM seeds are a huge environmental risk because spores from those plants can cross-polinate with YOUR plants. Then the fruit produced has worthless seed. What if farmer Joe next door uses GM seed? Then bees carry pollen from his plants over to yours? Not good.


And lastly, why do you think seed banks are popping up everywhere? Just for the fun of it? NO! Seed supply is in danger. Ever heard of the Svalbard Global Seed Vault? Here it is on National Geographic.
 
#4 ·
Every year I look for these GM seeds in my catalogs, but can never find them. Of course I don't shop at Dekalb or Pioneer, and really don't know any fellow gardeners or homesteaders who do.

When someone comes on here ranting about only growing heirloom seed, it is a dead giveaway that they know nothing about gardening and are more caught up in the internet cause...
 
#6 ·
I think heirloom seeds are on the low end of things to be concerned about when you look at all the other things that are going wrong with society right now.

Seriously, what good are heirloom seeds when our soil, air and water are laced with arsenic and countless other carcinogens along with untold amounts of man-made drugs?

Don't get me wrong. I applaud the efforts of those who are working to preserve heirloom seeds. But, don't look down at GM crops because (as much as I hate to say it) they might be what ultimately saves us from ourselves.

Finally, the only real problem I currently have with GM crops is the way the laws are being enforced. Don't blame or try to prosecute the organic farmers for monsanto and others failure to control or contain their own crops.
 
#9 ·
If you are looking for long term sustainability then you about have to be thinking about open grown seed. But if I start worrying about genetic contamination from genetically modified plants, I'm afraid my head would explode.

I'm lucky, my safe haven is in a location where about the only thing the neighbors grow is grass hay.
 
#11 ·
FYI There are a few gardeners out there that are learning how to back cross to get back to the original parent plant. Almost every plant we call heirloom is a cross that will produce true to form. All apples are crosses. Apples are always grafted so they will produce the fruit the farmer wants. If you grow it from seed you will get an apple tree but it may not taste very well or have the qualities that you are looking for.
 
#16 ·
I want to create my own stock of pea seeds.

This next spring I can plant a single pea variety and there are no other gardens within miles as far as I can see. 10s of miles.

What are my best options to create a seed stock over a few years that will always produce an abundant crop of peas as the original seed did?
 
#22 ·
I buy heirloom seeds, not because they say "heirloom" on the packet for propaganda, but because the genetic variety of our plants has shrunk drastically over the years, precisely because we have F1 generations that are the same, or GMO crops being pressed on us by big companies such as Monsanto, who seem to think that what nature has put together isn't good enough, and they want to replace that with product that is all the same. Heirlooms tend to be the older varieties of seed, "born and bred", you could say, for the areas they like best.

Why should we grow stuff that is all the same? If something comes along, and they often do, and wipes our our particular variety of stuff that's the same as everyone else's stuff, we all lose.

You wouldn't marry your brother/sister/cousin would you? Because that would be bad genetically. How far down the line before serious problems show up in genetic strains?

Variety is, as they say, the spice of life. I will continue to buy the old heirloom/open pollinated varieties, because that makes it harder for things to knock my garden down, especially in the event that I may have to rely on it as my main source of sustenance. And the nice thing about them is that I only have to buy the packet once. $3.95 is a whole lot better than starving to death.
 
#72 ·
I buy heirloom seeds, not because they say "heirloom" on the packet for propaganda, but because the genetic variety of our plants has shrunk drastically over the years, precisely because we have F1 generations that are the same, or GMO crops being pressed on us by big companies such as Monsanto, who seem to think that what nature has put together isn't good enough, and they want to replace that with product that is all the same. Heirlooms tend to be the older varieties of seed, "born and bred", you could say, for the areas they like best.

Why should we grow stuff that is all the same? If something comes along, and they often do, and wipes our our particular variety of stuff that's the same as everyone else's stuff, we all lose.

You wouldn't marry your brother/sister/cousin would you? Because that would be bad genetically. How far down the line before serious problems show up in genetic strains?
Variety is, as they say, the spice of life. I will continue to buy the old heirloom/open pollinated varieties, because that makes it harder for things to knock my garden down, especially in the event that I may have to rely on it as my main source of sustenance. And the nice thing about them is that I only have to buy the packet once. $3.95 is a whole lot better than starving to death.
Im confused by this because heirlooms are pollinated from each,other same plant could have pollinated its self or its sister plant from last years seed harvest.
Where as hybrids are lets say I have cheerokee purple cross pollinate my Golden Bison Tomato.Thats how a hybrid is made.
So this brother to sister thing seams to be done in heirlooms.
 
#28 ·
I own a small farm and seed company. We specialize in heirloom varieties, rare varieties and open-pollinated varieties. We also breed our own new varieties, which includes some F1's while we are in the process of making them open pollinated. I've also been to "seed school" and teach classes on this subject, so I feel somewhat able to speak on this subject.
The fact is that somewhere around 96% of our vegetable varieties that were commercially available in 1910 are gone today. They either are extinct or nobody can locate them. When you have a genetic loss of 96%, it is extremely dangerous for our food security. Crop diversity is crop security after all.
Although the companies creating Genetically Modified seed have not really hit the garden industry yet, they still harm it. Because most all the corn planted today commercially is now GM, the pollen drift has destroyed a huge amount of the heirloom varieties of the corn we have left. The same will probably happen with gm sugar beets contaminating our chard, beets, etc.
Many times, you are paying more for F1 hybrids than you are for heirlooms. Even though at times they stabilize the popular hybrid, and make it open pollinated because it is then cheaper to grow. They just keep calling it an F1 so they can charge more.
I have to go work at the moment, or I'd enjoy writing more. But long story short... there is nothing wrong with supporting the people that are trying to save our food supply. I don't know why people get so worked up when someone brings up our seed insecurity. We really should all pick a couple rare varieties at risk of extinction to adopt and view as our own family heirloom. Do some research on the risk of using only one variety.... look what happened to the banana, the Irish potato famine, wheat rust, etc.
gotta go.
 
#57 ·
I most certainly did not intend for this thread to become an argument. However, I am very open-minded and have learned a thing or two from those who rebuked some of my statements, so I thank you all for that. :rolleyes:

If everyone could just listen to others instead of taking the stance that theirs is the only right way, one might learn something quite valuable.

I admit I am in no way an expert. I learn a little bit each day and when I misinterpret some of my learning, I have the great people of this forum to set me straight :eek::

I believe whole-heartedly in self sustainability and am personally taking as many measures as I can in that direction. My personal stance is that using open pollinated seed is the best way to become self-sustainable in the case there are no more seed stores. I will, however, learn more about Hybrid and how to make them more stable, as some have mentioned above.
 
#59 ·
Maybe selling/bartering seed will be a good way to make a living post TEOTWAWKI.

I haven't really taken seed saving all that seriously, it makes sense for me personally, just another way to prepare for any eventuality, but I buy new open grown seed regularly just to be sure I have the best available when the time comes.

I'm starting to see that there could be a serious seed crunch if things fall apart. When that happens people like us who have thought ahead may have a big role to play in rebuilding.
 
#60 ·
I haven't really taken seed saving all that seriously, it makes sense for me personally, just another way to prepare for any eventuality, but I buy new open grown seed regularly just to be sure I have the best available when the time comes.
This is actually a good idea for the reason you give and maybe as a way of dealing with a weakening gene pool. Your plants lose vigor over successive generations unless you're saving seed from a rather large plot, according to what I've read. But if you were to grow seed of the same variety, but from differing sources, your seed would stay stronger for much longer. It's good to trade seed with other growers that you know you can trust.
 
#76 ·
There seems to be some misinformation getting passed around about seed vaults, what they are, who runs them, and for what purposes. There are the small seed collections being offered for sale to consumers and then there are the large true seed vaults being used for storage of genetic material for research. It goes without saying that there is no "ultimate seed bank for any situation" for sale. As with all things, situational context is needed, and caveat emptor, "buyer beware", always applies. Of course these can be labeled as "scams".

Then there are the large seed banks being constructed by scientists in various locations throughout the world. It should be noted that the majority of the germplasm lines (varieties) that will ever end up in these vaults are already stored somewhere. The world's agronomists essentially have a shared network of facilities which house these seeds and they are offered for sale for legitimate research to scientists anywhere on earth. They are not all genetically modified, the vast majority are actually non-agricultural varieties and species, and are weedy ancestors or relatives. Scientists are storing these germplasm lines to conserve the genetic diversity of crops and their relatives currently available on the planet. When a new variety of a crop is developed, plant breeders can use these seeds to breed in traits which would have been retained by this genetic conservation program. This program has nothing to do with normal purchases of seeds by consumers, you cannot buy these seeds if you are not a legitimate researcher. Scientists are not necessarily preparing for the end of the world, or seeking to only preserve the genetically modified varieties of crops, and they are not conspiring to sell you only genetically modified crops. If there is any project which will allow us to reduce the usage of GM crops, it is this one!! There are literally millions of varieties of both crops and "weeds" whose germplasms have been stored in multiple locations, and there are hundreds of thousands for wheat alone. Your heirloom and open pollinating crops, as well and their related weedy ancestors and relatives, are most certainly among those being stored. But it is wise to create your own seed vault, their seeds are for their research and development only. In my opinion, it would be extraordinarily unlikely that these lines would ever be distributed to the public in the event of any type of catastrophic event, no matter the severity.

EDIT: It should also be noted that conventionally bred non-local varieties are just as threatening to biodiversity, if not more so, than genetically modified varieties. Scientists are attempting to conserve the genetic diversity of crops to prepare for increased pest pressures, altered climatic conditions, and desired increased yields. When a local variety of a crop (or even a local weedy ancestor) is lost to a non-local variety, and no seeds from the local variety are kept, a loss of genetic diversity has just occurred. It doesn't matter if the crop is replaced with a genetically modified line or not, what matters is that the original local genetic strain has been lost. That being said, genetically modified crops do have significant ecological impacts that set them apart from their conventionally bred counterparts, the worst of which (with the greatest potential for long term disturbance) is the introduction of transgenes into crop-weedy ancestor F1 hybrids, and into the subsequent backcrosses to both the crop and the weedy ancestor. Once a transgene escapes into the wild, it cannot be recovered. These hybrids act as gene pools and can aid the contamination of a further geographic spread, affecting both natural ecosystems and agroecosystems.
 
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