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Old 08-15-2014, 09:28 AM
NY74 NY74 is offline
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Ok I understand the part of the scope doing calculations for you...but how do you adjust for caliber on this scope as different calibers have different trajectory
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Originally Posted by DKjr View Post
some good post here, what see out on the streets folks trying to shoot longrange with out known anything about shooting longrange. Some folks dont understand the basic's of MOA. MOA "Minute of Angle" is the term used as the standard for measuring the accuracy of a rifle. You can also use minute of angle as a means of measuring the size of an animalís target zone or the plate your shooting. In the simplest terms, there are 360 degrees in a circle, each degree has 60 minutes. Calculated distance extended to a target at 100 yards is 1.047 inches or ďone-minute.Ē This number is just a crosshair "I call a smige" over ďone inchĒ and to make calculating easier, most or all shooters use ďone inch,Ē this is called ďshooterís minute of angle.Ē In terms of accuracy, if a shooters rifle can shoot three or five rounds and have them group inside one inch at 100 yards, then you have a minute of angle group, or a minute of angle rifle. Rifle scopes and the turrets have clicks of MOA value also. Most shooters use the 1/4 inch MOA & some use a 1/8 inch click value. Using the 1/4 inch scope, this means that each click equals 1/4 inch of movement at 100 yards. So in order to make the bullet impact move one inch or one MOA at 100 yards, you must turn the elevation or the windage knob 4 clicks. The click value moves up by a 1/4 inch for each 100-yard increase in distance, so 200 yards will be Ĺ inch movement per click, 300 yards will be 3/4 in. per click, 400 yards = 1 in., 500 yards = 1 1/4 in., 600 yards = 1 Ĺ in., 700 yards = 1 3/4 in., 800 yards = 2 in., 900 yards = 2 1/4 in. and 1000 yards = 2 Ĺ inches of movement per click of elevation. This also goes for your windage too.
Personally you have to have good optics to see the distances your shooting for. Poor quality optics will only get you poor shooting. I like the Vortex Optic's , The Vortex TMT (Trajectory Matched Turret) elevation cap is not just a simple BDC cap, it is truly custom-matched to your rifle and load. For maximum speed when adjusting for accurate long range bullet drop, nothing beats dialing a yardage marked elevation turret cap. No calculations are necessar, just simply range your target and dial the turret to the matching range. The Trajectory Matched Turret data is needed "Your Specific Rifle, Load, Temperature & Altitude Preference." Windage, long-range shooter estimates the wind, he looks at two primary factors 1st direction, 2nd speed. Observing the wind's direction is fairly simple and, is essential to calculating how the wind will affect your bullet in flight. Estimating the wind's speed is where the greater challenge lies. A traditional way of estimating windspeed is by looking around and seeing how the wind affects objects. A wind lightly felt upon your face is 3 to 5 mph, a 6 to 8 mph wind will agitate the leaves on trees, 8 to 12 mph and the wind is raising dust, 12 to 15 mph sways small trees, and water begins to whitecap at 17 mph. As bow hunters alot of us know this. Being able to estimate these with any accuracy requires practice. Personally I like wind meters & compass. I still like to measure & use a compass to see were the wind is coming from, but also to evaluate my estimates. I make an estimate using the appearance of objects then employ my wind meter to see how accurate I was. When I'm wrong, I analyze the cause so I'm better attuned for the next time. Having made an accurate windspeed estimate and determined the wind's direction, you now determine how this will affect your bullet's flight. First, consider the line between your muzzle and your target in the context of a clock, with 12 o'clock being directly to your front, six o'clock directly to your rear, and 9 and 3 o'clock being left and right respectively we first consider the wind's direction. If the wind is coming from 12 or 6 o'clock it has no value because it will not drift "push" your bullet right or left, it has no significant effect! Winds coming from 9 or 3 o'clock, however, have the greatest or "FULL" effect. It's the oblique winds, coming somewhere between those four primary directions from, say, 10:30 o'clock or 4 o'clock that can be the most perplexing because it only takes a slight direction change to significantly increase or decrease the wind's effect. A rough rule-of-thumb is that winds between the four primary directions are half-value, according to some shooters, however it has been my experience & from others I've talked with that oblique winds halfway between FULL and no compensation are more deserving of a three quarters value. These "oblique" angles are where wind estimation or "doping the wind" assumes as much art as science. How to compensate, your bullet will drift in the direction of the wind. To compensate for this, you must aim into the wind, to the right or left. By aiming right or left into the wind, as the bullet travels downrange, the wind will drift it into the target. Ballistic software websites provide specific wind drift data for your exact load, stated as its FULL VALUE, for a 9 or 3 o'clock wind. I'm just hitting the tip of understanding MOA. Once you start understanding it and put the princables to practice you'll be amazed by the distances you can reach out to. The pic below is my long range rifle with 2 range card [email protected] 32 degrees & the other @ 75 degrees with wind meter.

I enjoy shooting longrange especailly with lighter bullet, 140 gr. Accu-Bond. My furtherest kill shot on a animal was 856 yards, best group @ 900 yards was just under 4". I like enclosed \covered turrets, too much can happen when shoulder with exposed turrets IMO while hunting. Shooting is repetitious .
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:10 AM
tyestramski tyestramski is offline
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I learned how to be a sharpshooter in the Airforce.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:12 AM
tyestramski tyestramski is offline
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Nice set up.
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:45 PM
chase1 chase1 is offline
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So normally I donít post too much on forums, but I broke my wrist so Iíve been spending the last two days reading them. After reading some posts on here, Iíve learned there is some great information, some wrong information and some Iíve noticed are just copied and pasted from other peopleís articles.

Figured Iíd throw my experience in the arena and hopefully somebody here might find some of it useful. Please keep in mind, Iím not saying what I recommend is THE way to shoot, but A way. Some if it is personal preference and some of it is proven science.

Setting up your scope:
This is a little trick I donít even remember where I learned it, but itís quick and works for me. Assuming your length of pull is set, line up behind your rifle in a comfortable position Ė Donít worry about your sight picture at this point, just get nice and comfortable behind your rifle. Have somebody mark the tip of your nose on your rifle.

Hold something black (I usually use the back of my cell) about 3Ē or4Ē back from the eye piece. Now shine a flashlight through the objective lens. Youíll probably notice the reflection from your flashlight on your cell is a big fuzzy circle (like a flashlight). Now move the cell phone back and forth and youíll see a spot where that light because like a pinhole. Thatís the perfect distance. Now Measure from the eyepiece to that spot and thatís how far your scopes eyepiece should be mounted from that line on your nose previously drawn.

Zeroing your scope:
This is something that in my opinion not enough people do; check your scopes tracking

The first thing is to find exactly 100 yards (or meters). I donít trust ranges and I donít trust laser sites for this job either. Want proof? Go to cabalas and test out 3 or 4 range finders on the same target in the store. Youíll probably get 2 or 3 different readings between them. It may be just a yard or two, but at long range all these little inconsistencies add up. So for setting up my scope, if Iím not on my personal range, I go old school and break out a tape measure.

Set up a tall target with a quarter sized dot at the bottom then draw a line about 3í straight up. Its important that this line is perfectly level, you must use a level. Put 3 shots on the dot at the bottom, now dial up 30 Minutes and shoot at that same dot. Your shots should land exactly on that line horizontally, and exactly 31.41 inches higher. If they are right or left you may have a canting issue. if itís not exactly 31.41 high, your scope doesnít track vertically properly (which is semi-common, especially in lower end scopes). Itís not the end of the world; you just need to make adjustments in your ballistic software.

Once I have that all dialed in, I crank my knobs back and forth, up and down, left/ right and then back to zero and run the test again.

Body position:
It seems more people are getting this right now-a-days, but I remember not too long ago a lot of people used that body really angled to the rifle technique. You should be lined up directly behind your rifle. Technically, the rifles line should run down the inside right leg (for right handed shooters). Now this is where I differ from some peopleÖmy elbows. A lot of great shooters advocate elbows should be pointed directly outwards, forming a sort of ďTĒ formation from rifle to elbows. I donít disagree; I just do it slightly different. I point mine slightly forward. I do this because itís easier to make very minor right and left adjustments by slightly moving my right/left elbow in or out.

Your legs if possible, should be spread fairly wide with your insides of your feet & ankles fully against the ground. Some people have a little trouble at first with this, but youíll find itís more stable than on the balls of your feet.

Body tension - Another place I differ from some
Again, some great shooters advocate a very, very relaxed body tension and grip. Many barely even touch their stocks and have their thumb on the bolt side of the rifle. I understand the logic and not criticizing it, I just have a different belief which is thisÖ Much of what makes a good shooter is about consistency and muscle memory right? Well sometimes there are certain awkward shooting positions youíll find yourself in as a tactical shooter were you have to grip the stock tightly and your body will be a little tense. So being limp and loose gripped in one position, then tighter in another sort of defeats the purpose of muscle memory.

So for me, if Im in a prone position Iíll find my natural point of aim, Lean into my rifle to load the bipod, and at the same time slightly pull the rifle into me in sort of that same tension you use when performing a rear naked choke for all you UFC fans.

Staying a little tenser for me, allows me to manage the recoil better and works better for muscle memory vs. lose in this position, tense in another.

Practicing on the range:
On the range I recommend you go with a game plan in mind. Too many people go and just start blasting. If thatís all you want out of shooting, have fun nothing wrong with that at all. If on the other hand youíre trying to improve you should have a plan. Whether it be speed drills, spending the day using come-ups vs. dialing or working on that one awkward position that always frustrates you, My point is If you take your shooting seriously, go with a plan.

Practicing off the range:
Dry fire. Dry fire. Dry fire. I spend about Ĺ nearly every day dry firing. This is where you really get the muscle memory thing working. Slow down and work on those fundamentals. Body position, Natural point of aim, follow through, breathing, calling your shots etc.

Speaking of calling your shots, this is one many people donít understand. A lot of people think it means having your spotter yell out Low, high, miss, hit. How does having somebody tell you ďyou missedĒ help you? Ok you shot low, but is that because you flinched or your dope is off?

So hereís what I mean and it might take you a while to get thisÖit did for me. Sight in on a target, a very small target and really focus on a perfect bullseye and dry fire. Now do it again and pay attention to that fraction of a second right before you blink (we almost all blink). Eventually youíll see that slightest little movement of your crosshair right as you pull the trigger. You should look for this every time you pull the trigger. Thatís calling your shots. And when you learn to recognize that little flinch, then you can start analyzing your shots.

Well I love shooting and could probably ramble on forever so Iíll quit. Hope I made sense, and hope somebody thought it was helpful.
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:35 PM
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This is easily one of the most useful threads on SB. I don't know why it's not a sticky.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:14 PM
Sneeky Sneeky is offline
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So I want to sight in my rifle, test some loads, and once I get all that worked out, I want to start shooting from field positions.

I see a lotta guys sighting-in and load testing from the bench with only a one hand grip on the rifle -- their left hand (if a righty) is not holding the forearm, the forearm is free resting on a sandbag, etc.

If a gun is sighted this way, won't it shoot to a different point when you are shooting in various field positions and holding the forearm in your palm?

Will using a sling and applying tension change point of aim vs. free resting on a sandbag?
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:47 PM
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Load testing from a bench, assuming youre consistent in doing things the same every time, simply gives you an idea as to how the load performs in the rifle. Its not necessarily how the rifle will shoot in the field. You'll probably be pretty close, but you will likely need to adjust, or at least, fine tune your zero once you start shooting from a field position.

Youre best bet is to zero and shoot the gun as you intend to in the field. How you shoot, what you use to shoot with, can all change how things go.

A sling helps, but can give different results, depending on the gun and how its set up, how the sling is set up, how much pressure you use, youre consistently, etc.

Learning to shoot from field positions and using your body as the platform and how it relates to your results, will take you a lot further than just shooting off a bench.

You need to get the basics down, and get a base for "you" and then go from there. Once you start shooting consistently and can call your shots, you'll be on your way.

I normally zero and/or do load testing from prone, starting with a rest, and then confirming without it. Then see how things relate from sitting and offhand and note the differences, if any.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:13 PM
D2wing D2wing is offline
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A lot of cart before the horse. I strongly recommend you do not start with a high power rifle. NRA certified instructor here. Go back to basics. Practice with an air pistol. look up proper sight alignment, which is your dominate eye. These teaches you sight alignment and proper trigger control. Then learn the proper shooting positions and how to hold a rifle and practice all that before you go to a range. If possible Start with a 22 LR or at home with a BB gun. That way you learn to shoot without flinching. When you shoot high power practice good form . When sighting in make sure you have a solid rest.
Usually sight in is at 100 yards. something like sand bags or rolled up sleeping bag makes a front rest and something smaller for a rear rest and pad your shoulder. Don't rush. I have skipped several steps, they are the scope instructions for adjustment etc. I recommend getting the NRA handbook and help from a certified instructor or trained military rifleman if possible. Good luck.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:24 PM
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^^ Sounds like a sales pitch for a mediocre organization that barely manages to keep my membership fees each renewal. The NRA does some things well, but I'd look elsewhere for combat or self-defense rifle skills.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:01 PM
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Though I fall into the ''THE NRA IS A BAG FULL OF DOG DOO'' camp right now, I have not giving up my life membership, and will become active again when certain members are no longer in charge. With that said I will back up D2wing in that NRA basic firearms training is a very good place to start.

If you are a quick learner, and firearms are a very easy skill set to learn, despite what the internet drama queens like to scream, you can advance to the ninja levels very quickly.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:00 PM
D2wing D2wing is offline
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If it helps, I am also certified by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, University of Minnesota Extension Service, and Minnesota DNR. I just didn't want to type it all out. The point is to have instruction from a person with quality formal training rather than just anybody. Even a ton of experienced shooters I see at ranges and competition don't know basic information about shooting. As an instructor, Many new shooters do much better if their dad's haven't taught them incorrectly to start with. The military does a pretty good job.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:18 PM
ajole ajole is offline
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I was also an NRA certified Rifle and Shotgun instructor, RSO, yada yada...

I am not arguing against getting training, and I certainly do agree with you about the bad training some get at home, some of the things I have seen and heard with Boy Scouts would curdle your milk....

That said, the NRA training for instructors was pretty basic, the training any individual will get from any course from any organization is VERY dependent on the instructor, and not his certifications.

Do NOT rely on any letters or certifications, I have seen NRA instructors that should have been booted off the range, and I have seen NRA guys that should do it for a living... which they almost have to do to pay the fees the NRA takes for letting them use their name, which is another whole discussion.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:21 AM
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Good point. The instructor training is good, the application varies. I actually like the 4-H program best and used thier lesson plans. The key is to get good fundamentals.
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