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Old 07-22-2019, 07:25 PM
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Default Is it possible to prove the existence of God?



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If so, by what means?

If not, why not?

For believers only.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:31 PM
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To yourself? Yes. All you have to do is die.

To other people? Unlikely. I think if God intended to provide sufficient empirical evidence of His existence to qualify as absolute proof, He would have done it by now.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:41 PM
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Before answering your question in a meaningful way, its necessary to know what "proof" means, as it could have several meanings. So, you have to ask, what would you consider acceptable as proof? Different people will have different answers.

A mathematical proof is far more precise than what is accepted in a court of law as a proof.

The former relies on the acceptance of axioms or first principles and draws formal, logical conclusions. The latter relies primarily on evidence presented in a systematic manner according to the rules of the court and the laws of the land.

These are quite different.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:02 PM
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There is a good book called The Case for Christ that asks that question and offers as much proof as anything else I have ever read.

What I have learned for myself is God wants people to turn to him by their own choice based on faith. So to a person with faith, they will answer yes. Likewise to a person without, they will say no or they need proof. IMHO I don't think God is going to do more than he already has for proof as there will always need to be a decision based on faith for a relationship with him.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:18 PM
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Neither the existence, nor the non-existence of G-d can be empirically proved.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:19 PM
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We are not supposed to have proof. Proof negates the need for faith. God wants us to have faith in him.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
If so, by what means?

If not, why not?

For believers only.
Yes, I believe you can.

We will never be able to place God in one our test tubes or under our microscopes and expect to find His existence, only His amazing handiwork.

God is spirit and must be found in the spirit. It is clear within scripture He has given us free will. We can fully reject Him and live a life without Him. But like any other father, He has a strong desire to have a relationship with His children. He has not left us fatherless by any means.

We are assured (Jer 29:13) You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Each of us has a mustard seed of faith, measured to us before we were born.

God loves us because he chooses to love us in spite of our failures. He loved us while we were still sinners, (Romans 5:8) and he will never stop loving us.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:25 PM
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To prove it to myself was easy: I asked Him and He answered.

To prove the existence of God to somebody else? I do not see how THAT could be done!
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Neither the existence, nor the non-existence of G-d can be empirically proved.

I'm inclined to agree with you.


That's what faith is for. (I think...)
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
Before answering your question in a meaningful way, its necessary to know what "proof" means, as it could have several meanings. So, you have to ask, what would you consider acceptable as proof? Different people will have different answers.

A mathematical proof is far more precise than what is accepted in a court of law as a proof.

The former relies on the acceptance of axioms or first principles and draws formal, logical conclusions. The latter relies primarily on evidence presented in a systematic manner according to the rules of the court and the laws of the land.

These are quite different.
Thanks for the response. No need to convince me. No wrong answers either. Go ahead and brief out whatever evidence you think would be sufficient to convince an imaginary agnostic in 2019.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Neither the existence, nor the non-existence of G-d can be empirically proved.
Care to expand on that?
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:02 PM
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No need to limited responses to exclusively empirical proofs. If there is any persuasive point or argument, let's get it on the table.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:08 PM
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God is perfect.
Existence is more perfect than non-existence.
Therefore, God exists.


QED
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
God is perfect.
Existence is more perfect than non-existence.
Therefore, God exists.


QED
For your argument to be valid one would first have to be able to prove God exists. How else can you prove that He is perfect.
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Old 07-22-2019, 11:20 PM
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:14 AM
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Don't need to, my faith tells me HE IS real.
If you have to ask for proof, well...
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
For your argument to be valid one would first have to be able to prove God exists. How else can you prove that He is perfect.
If there is a God, then He would have to be perfect as perfection is an attribute of God. And existence is an attribute of perfection. And things that exist are more perfect than things that don't. Therefore...

But your 100% right, it's a circular argument.

However, this kind of reasoning is found in most of the proofs I've seen.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:14 AM
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I see the proof of the existence of God every single day and in many different ways, places, and faces. Much of that proof being experiential through signs and miracles. However one cannot see or accept "proof", no matter how incontrovertible, if they are unwilling.
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Old 07-23-2019, 12:30 PM
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In the way that a non believer would expect, no.

I believe in empirical evidence for all things in this world outside of religion, so I don't blame skepticism.

I also believe however that faith is a strength, not a weakness nor flaw in reasoning or logic.

I know he exists because I have felt him. Can I prove this to someone else? Nope. Don't care to either. God asks for faith from the individual, and I have it. Can care less what the next man says about it. True faith is like a rock, unshakeable. And just like if some random person asked me to prove my military service, if someone asks me to prove God exists, I'd laugh and shrug it off. You simply aren't ready for that relationship with him, and it's not my job to do anything for you or prove anything to you.



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Old 07-23-2019, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
Thanks for the response. No need to convince me. No wrong answers either. Go ahead and brief out whatever evidence you think would be sufficient to convince an imaginary agnostic in 2019.
No such evidence or argument. It always comes down to one person that gets on their knees and tries to talk to their Heavenly Father.

They receive an answer they can feel and have faith in, or they donít feel it, for whatever reason. That reason is tied to them, not to God.

Thatís honestly the only way, IMHO.
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