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Old 09-18-2019, 12:58 AM
ajole ajole is online now
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What about Abraham and Hagar? If she wasn't married to Abraham, was she his concubine? Or a common-law wife? Or Abraham's slave? And if Abraham had relations with her, which the Bible implies he did, an act which must have been inspired by God for the continuation of the Jewish line, can we consider her a wife, because otherwise would it not have been adultery or fornication which has been outlawed in the Ten Commandments?
Ummm....the Ten Commandments came more than 400 years later, IIRC....

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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
Although I am no longer in touch with the family, there is man with 2 wives who lives some 6 miles from where I live and I have talked to several of his friends and neighbors who say that all are very happy. I used to have a close friend who took several wives and that ended badly, though I think he still has one wife after the others, including the first wife, left. Both of these men were strong active Mormons until they were excommunicated.
No, they werenít. They may have said they were, they may even have thought they were...but they werenít. Just like you.

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There are currently thousands of American men who have more than one wife. There is currently a large community of them on the Utah--Arizona border, who believe in "The Gospel of Jesus Christ" and its founder on this continent, Joseph Smith, though they are not part of the main Mormon Church.

Mormons, even the prophet believe in polygamy after one dies. If a man is married and his wife dies, he marries another, and she dies, when he dies and goes to the highest degree of glory he will have three wives as a minimum. Some young women, such as my close neighbor, don't particularly like the idea that she will have sister wives in eternity, but she believes it to be God's desire, since God has more than one wife, besides the mentioned Mother in Heaven.
Well...thatís not true either. God has multiple wives? Three wives as a minimum? Thatís NOT doctrine, not even a thing. You must have been in one odd place in the church to be getting these BS ideas. Sure do wish youíd stop spreading the lies.

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Originally Posted by Cuteandfuzzybunnies View Post
How many Mormon polygamists do you know ? I know a few and not all of them have separate homes.
Sorry....they may identify as Mormons...but they arenít, any more than Kaitlyn Jenner is a girl.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:22 AM
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I've had more than one wife, just not at the same time. I wouldn't want to have more than one.
However, the concubine idea may have some merit.....

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Old 09-18-2019, 01:42 AM
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An excellent idea I think.
With multiple wives one could do penance before death.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
What about Abraham and Hagar? If she wasn't married to Abraham, was she his concubine? Or a common-law wife? Or Abraham's slave? And if Abraham had relations with her, which the Bible implies he did, an act which must have been inspired by God for the continuation of the Jewish line, can we consider her a wife, because otherwise would it not have been adultery or fornication which has been outlawed in the Ten Commandments?
Ummm....the Ten Commandments came more than 400 years later, IIRC....[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
Although I am no longer in touch with the family, there is man with 2 wives who lives some 6 miles from where I live and I have talked to several of his friends and neighbors who say that all are very happy. I used to have a close friend who took several wives and that ended badly, though I think he still has one wife after the others, including the first wife, left. Both of these men were strong active Mormons until they were excommunicated.
No, they weren’t. They may have said they were, they may even have thought they were...but they weren’t. Just like you.

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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
There are currently thousands of American men who have more than one wife. There is currently a large community of them on the Utah--Arizona border, who believe in "The Gospel of Jesus Christ" and its founder on this continent, Joseph Smith, though they are not part of the main Mormon Church.

Mormons, even the prophet believe in polygamy after one dies. If a man is married and his wife dies, he marries another, and she dies, when he dies and goes to the highest degree of glory he will have three wives as a minimum. Some young women, such as my close neighbor, don't particularly like the idea that she will have sister wives in eternity, but she believes it to be God's desire, since God has more than one wife, besides the mentioned Mother in Heaven.
Well...that’s not true either. God has multiple wives? Three wives as a minimum? That’s NOT doctrine, not even a thing. You must have been in one odd place in the church to be getting these BS ideas. Sure do wish you’d stop spreading the lies.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]

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How many Mormon polygamists do you know ? I know a few and not all of them have separate homes.
Sorry....they may identify as Mormons...but they aren’t, any more than Kaitlyn Jenner is a girl.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]
Mormon they are. LDS they are not.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by A_SonofLiberty View Post
Who would want more than one? I mean seriously.
Although I am no longer in touch with the family, there is man with 2 wives who lives some 6 miles from where I live and I have talked to several of his friends and neighbors who say that all are very happy. I used to have a close friend who took several wives and that ended badly, though I think he still has one wife after the others, including the first wife, left. Both of these men were strong active Mormons until they were excommunicated.
I think polygamist marriages work out at least as well as monogamist marriages. They may even be less likely to end in divorce.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuteandfuzzybunnies View Post
I think polygamist marriages work out at least as well as monogamist marriages. They may even be less likely to end in divorce.
I see that and I will raise Multi-polygamist marriages are even better. You divorce one harem and go with another harem. On a side I advise to also cheat with other harems at the same time. In fact make the whole world just one big large family. Lets do everybody and anybody. That is the perfect polygamist family. Bunch of perverts.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:44 AM
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Ok I have been in several discussions over the years concerning more than one wife. I have warned against this as pointed out in scripture, but as always people like to twist scripture to fit what they want. Now I am not concerned about legal status but I am concerned about it Biblically.

I am not sharing verses for or against because I want to see others views without any debate, this is merely to see if others see more than I do or have explanations that I haven't considered.

Thank you and please not debates just others views.
Well, first when you say "more than one wife" are you referring to someone who was divorced - likely for unscriptural causes - and remarried? Or are you referring to polygamy.

If the latter, here are several historical sources that refute the idea that it was acceptable.

http://www.christianthinktank.com/polygame.html

But hey, why not right? Sola Scriptura, the Bible is silent on it, and the new secretary is cute.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:52 AM
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I believe that polygamy is used by 'religious' men, who may or may not call themselves prophets, to justify their desires.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:59 AM
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Why is that and what are your religious beliefs?
I do not have any religious beliefs, I do not believe in or agree with religion...

I study religion especially the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam yes, but I have no interest in following any religion. I feel it is wise to study, understand and respect the ways of ones enemy, in this case the three main branches of the Abrahamic religions.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:08 AM
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I do not have any religious beliefs, I do not believe in or agree with religion...

I study religion especially the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam yes, but I have no interest in following any religion. I feel it is wise to study, understand and respect the ways of ones enemy, in this case the three main branches of the Abrahamic religions.
Are you an enemy of just the three branches of the Abrahamic religions or all religion in general, paganism included?
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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Are you an enemy of just the three branches of the Abrahamic religions or all religion in general, paganism included?
I am unaware of any religion that would consider me an enemy outside of the three Abrahamic faiths. Most of the worlds religions are not designed around being spread to every citizen of earth, they are in fact most of them only meant for their specific group or people etc.

The Abrahamic religions on the other hand are different. The Jews invade a foreign land (the promised land) under orders from their "God" who tells them to kill every man, woman and child in the country and take what is rightfully their's by order of "God". This to me is a rather dangerous belief system.

Christians go a step further in believing that it is their duty to try and convert every non believer on earth, again a frightening level of fanaticism at work there.

Islam will put the non believers (infidels) to the sword and conquer the world forcing all to be Muslim or die.

As a non believer I am designated as the enemy of these religions, I have always felt it wise to learn as much as I can about them for when and if any of the three come for me...

Most religion I do not find disturbing or dangerous at all, in fact I find most religions quite fascinating and interesting relics of the past weaving myth and common sense together into a means of helping people to understand social values and positions.

No, I do not follow or believe in any religion, though I do find some quite fascinating. If I had to choose a religion I would probably go with the old pagan Nordic beliefs as that is my heritage and I find the belief system quite interesting. My second choice would be Native American beliefs, again a part of my heritage and quite fascinating to me. Neither belief system has any intention of spreading itself to other peoples or forcing other people's to conform to their religious systems or beliefs.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
I am unaware of any religion that would consider me an enemy outside of the three Abrahamic faiths. Most of the worlds religions are not designed around being spread to every citizen of earth, they are in fact most of them only meant for their specific group or people etc.

The Abrahamic religions on the other hand are different. The Jews invade a foreign land (the promised land) under orders from their "God" who tells them to kill every man, woman and child in the country and take what is rightfully their's by order of "God". This to me is a rather dangerous belief system.

Christians go a step further in believing that it is their duty to try and convert every non believer on earth, again a frightening level of fanaticism at work there.

Islam will put the non believers (infidels) to the sword and conquer the world forcing all to be Muslim or die.

As a non believer I am designated as the enemy of these religions, I have always felt it wise to learn as much as I can about them for when and if any of the three come for me...

Most religion I do not find disturbing or dangerous at all, in fact I find most religions quite fascinating and interesting relics of the past weaving myth and common sense together into a means of helping people to understand social values and positions.

No, I do not follow or believe in any religion, though I do find some quite fascinating. If I had to choose a religion I would probably go with the old pagan Nordic beliefs as that is my heritage and I find the belief system quite interesting. My second choice would be Native American beliefs, again a part of my heritage and quite fascinating to me. Neither belief system has any intention of spreading itself to other peoples or forcing other people's to conform to their religious systems or beliefs.
So how would the world look if you will be to have power over it? Will the three Abrahamic religions be banned? Or there are others that will meet the ban list as well? I am just trying to see your view on a perfect world.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:01 PM
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I do not believe one can avoid favoritism with than one wife.

The fact that some women might be willing to accept such an arrangement tell me something about them. One a way of getting some of the advantages of a marriage while avoiding or sharing the obligations.

Aside from that fact it is against God's law many men seem to take ill advantage of older girls / young women before they understand what they are getting into.

It is just wrong! The fact it is a temptation is no justification. People accepting the idea are just rationalizing to justify their own temptations.

For believers I think the case has been laid out by poster above.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
The Jews invade a foreign land (the promised land) under orders from their "God" who tells them to kill every man, woman and child in the country and take what is rightfully their's by order of "God". This to me is a rather dangerous belief system.
It's a good point. The actions are no different than humans have done throughout time. See Islamic Conquest Holocaust on Hindus or List of genocides. Cultural Marxists like to say White European Colonialists did this and worse, etc. The mistake is presuming God is soft when he is a consuming fire.

For sure, the Bible is politically incorrect and has many stories that are not easy to accept but they remain challenging and stirring the passions of the people.

The difference between other conquests and that of the freed Hebrews is divine intervention. The Scriptural text makes it clear they could not have been successful on their own power. It's hard not to believe what you experience yourself. And it is foolish and dangerous not to fear such power.


Fear of the LORD is the foundation of true wisdom. All who obey his commandments will grow in wisdom.
Psalm 111:10 (NLT)


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Christians go a step further in believing that it is their duty to try and convert every non believer on earth, again a frightening level of fanaticism at work there.
Christians are radical and fanatics but in a good way (sense 2). From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fanatic
fanatic

1 disapproving : a person exhibiting excessive enthusiasm and intense uncritical devotion toward some controversial matter (as in religion or politics)
a religious fanatic [=extremist]


2 : a person who is extremely enthusiastic about and devoted to some interest or activity

I welcome your critical scrutiny and believe God can handle it.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:45 PM
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Yeah, Mormons will excommunicate you for multiple wives ever since the US made it illegal. Foremost you must live within the laws of the country you live in. But when they did do multiple wives, each wife had to have her own house. No all living together like breeding bitches in a pen. Every woman has the right to be mistress of her own home.

But these rumours of some of them having 30+ wives is just wrong. They strongly urged that men of wealth "adopt" widows and orphans. He paid the bills and over saw the moral upbringing and protected this woman and her children, but he didn't get bedroom rights. She was free to marry again. This is where the stupid idea of dozens of wives came from.


The official, from the First Presidency in the Gospel topics essays, word is that Joseph Smith, Mormonism's founder had at least 33 wives including many teenagers and one of 14 years of age. He also married other men's wives while they were still married. Google LDS Church essays and you will find a lot on Mormon polygamy. These essays are found under Gospel Topics on lds.org, the official church website. Now if this is wrong then the top leaders of the church are wrong and only Baby Blue is right.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:09 PM
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Ummm....the Ten Commandments came more than 400 years later, IIRC....



No, they werenít. They may have said they were, they may even have thought they were...but they werenít. Just like you.



Well...thatís not true either. God has multiple wives? Three wives as a minimum? Thatís NOT doctrine, not even a thing. You must have been in one odd place in the church to be getting these BS ideas. Sure do wish youíd stop spreading the lies.



Sorry....they may identify as Mormons...but they arenít, any more than Kaitlyn Jenner is a girl.


Mormons believe in direct revelation from God. Their prophet is considered a direct mouthpiece to God and they believe that Smith got the word to do as in OT times. And after Smith was killed, the Mormons moved to Utah where Brigham Young kept up the practice. In 1890, the Church supposedly outlawed polygamy by issuing a manifesto to satisfy the government, but it continued to be practiced until 1910 when the Second Manifesto was issued and that knocked out most of the Polygamy.

I'm not a Mormon, but I think I know as much or more that the posters here. The internet is a good source of info if you know where to look.

And I live in an area where a few polygamists moved in, some with 20 offspring. Nearly all consider themselves Mormons because they follow the prophets of the 1800's. There is a sort of underground where men can advertise for wives. They aren't necessarily Mormons. I had a friend who was looking and word of mouth got him in contact with a big family, in Utah. At age around 45, he took a 17-year old as a wife. I tried unsuccessfully to talk the first wife out of it but she felt the doctrine was from God. She was exed but after getting out and waiting a year, she was re-baptized and later married a former branch leader in the Las Vegas Temple. Mormonism, if one really delves into it has a lot of complicated and what you might call "weird" doctrines, but so does the Old Testament.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:31 PM
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So how would the world look if you will be to have power over it? Will the three Abrahamic religions be banned? Or there are others that will meet the ban list as well? I am just trying to see your view on a perfect world.


One big problem with the Abrahamic religions is that each one thinks it is the only true religion that their god approves of. I was a member of one of those religions for many years and know that I felt superior because I was one of "God's chosen". I might not have voiced that sentiment publicly but in my heart I felt superior. I used to ask questions to anyone which would tell me whether such a person might be ready to be taught and I had read the Bible enough that I could confuse the unlearned.

A fascinating website where one can find many world religions debating is the BBC program, "The Big Questions" with Nicky Campbell. There you might hear from mainstream Christians, atheists, fundamentalist Christians, Hindus, female Rabbis, Muslims, agnostics, Evangelicals, believers in aliens controlling the world, Anglican priests, Catholic priests as well as lay members, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jews, Christian/astrophysicist, biologist Richard Dawkins, etc. Only the Abrahamic religions voice the opinion that they are God's faith.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuteandfuzzybunnies View Post
Mormon they are. LDS they are not.

But who determines that they are Mormon or not? You?
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:01 PM
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I think polygamist marriages work out at least as well as monogamist marriages. They may even be less likely to end in divorce.
I see that and I will raise Multi-polygamist marriages are even better. You divorce one harem and go with another harem. On a side I advise to also cheat with other harems at the same time. In fact make the whole world just one big large family. Lets do everybody and anybody. That is the perfect polygamist family. Bunch of perverts.
We don’t cheat. And we don’t believe in divorce under most circumstances. So I dunno who the ”perverts “ are but it’s not us. We aren’t advocating women whoring around from man to man. We aren’t advocating men tossing their wife aside and trading her in for a newer one. We are advocating larger god fearing intact families that stick together. .
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:18 PM
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I do not believe one can avoid favoritism with than one wife.

The fact that some women might be willing to accept such an arrangement tell me something about them. One a way of getting some of the advantages of a marriage while avoiding or sharing the obligations.

Aside from that fact it is against God's law many men seem to take ill advantage of older girls / young women before they understand what they are getting into.

It is just wrong! The fact it is a temptation is no justification. People accepting the idea are just rationalizing to justify their own temptations.

For believers I think the case has been laid out by poster above.
Favoritism ? Maybe you can avoid it entirely. So what? It’s no harder to avoid favoritism between wives than it is with kids. Nobody says we shouldn’t have more than one kid because it’s not fair.

My partners and I don’t “keep score “. For us love and marriage is about the three of us working together to live our lives and accomplish our goals.

They both get more attention from me than they need. And they both get more unpleasantness from me than they need too also since I’m far from perfect.

My wife would far prefer a poly man who will stay with her and not cheat. And our gf likes the idea of marrying into a family because she can see in advance what kind of husband and father I am. And those. Aren’t the only advantages they get.
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