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Old 09-11-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Yeah, I imagine that makes a difference.



That makes a lot of sense to me if its something you have access to. I'm hundreds of miles from any navigable river so its not really on my radar.

According to a Forest Service booklet regarding a tourist site on the Locksa River some 20 miles from the Montana Border, the climate in most of north central Idaho is similar to the Washington coast due to the marine influence up the Columbia, Snake, and Clearwater Rivers. Lewiston, on the Snake is Idaho's only seaport.

We have forest fires which burn every year with not a lot of firefighting due to the rugged terrain, but I watched online when a lot of the Bitterroot Valley burned, including around Darby.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:55 AM
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Interesting thread.

Question: don't people there use "UTILITY" snow machines and large freight sleds...to haul tons of supplies into the back country ???
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 6.8SPC View Post
Interesting thread.

Question: don't people there use "UTILITY" snow machines...to haul tons of supplies into the back country ???
Back country fur trappers will transport their entire out fit, plus traps, plus a winter grub stake. They use a variety of methods, including horse pack strings, or boats in the summer, or bush plane or snow machine in winter.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:59 AM
Idaho Survivalist Idaho Survivalist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.8SPC View Post
Interesting thread.

Question: don't people there use "UTILITY" snow machines and large freight sleds...to haul tons of supplies into the back country ???

Haven't heard of any. I don't know why they would need to ship supplies. There is a FS guard station at Hoodoo Lake which is about 20 miles from the Montana border, but I doubt if it's in operation in winter. There is a summer road to it. There is a base with an airstrip at Moose Creek off the Selway River. All this country is National Forest. No private land off Highway 12. I saw a snow shed some 20 miles south of Highway 12 and 40 miles east of Grangeville. I never hear snow machines, where I live, like I did when I lived in the southern Washington Cascade Range and I only live 6 miles from the NF boundary. Looking at the Idaho topo map, there are some scattered air strips along big rivers where elevation is under 3000 feet and most are designated USFS. In the winter it is pretty well uninhabited. In my younger days, when hiking in the back country, once in a while I would come across hikers but within 5 miles of Highway 12. I hiked from the Seven Devils campground to a lookout where I could look in to the Hells Canyon of the Snake River. Great hike and great views. 14 miles round trip. Never saw another hiker. The next year thousands of acres there burned. And the road to the campground was a 17-mile drive off Highway 95, which runs from Las Vegas to Canada. In the summer I can drive on FS roads 25 air miles off a paved road, all day and never see another vehicle. This area seems remote but it's nothing like Alaska.

The Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness is over one million acres in Idaho and 250,000 acres i Montana--almost no roads. South of that is the Frank Church Wilderness which at 2.3 million acres, is the largest wilderness outside of Alaska--almost no roads.
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
People did for tens of thousands of years....And that was without modern technology.



Well, again, people did it for tends of thousands of years...without modern technology.

Keep in mind, this 50 mile circuit is not something you are doing every day or month or anything...its seasonal. It how people lived here for a very long time. They would dig bitteroot in the spring down in the valley floors, move up into the foothills for arrowroot in the summer, high into the mountains for huckleberries later in the year, and then north to the lake for the salmon run in the fall (sadly the inland salmon are now extinct from invasive species)

You just have to read about how the Salish lived here, an unusually peaceful people because this area had so much food available that there was little need for competition.



Not sure where that is coming from. I think my point may have gotten lost somewhere so let me back up and simplify a little as it looks like you have merged two separate concepts of mine.

First off, realize I'm playing devils advocate in this thread, I'm an first and foremost, a bug in prepper, but I accept that may not be what I get to do so I have given a lot of thought to bugging out even though I am not in favor of it in general.

What I am talking about is bugging out, with a convoy of trucks and trailers, chainsaws, fuel, tools, and thousands of pounds of food and basically bugging IN again at a different, more remote location if my current one becomes untenable for some reason.

This location does not have to be sustainable. Its being done for safety. Being able to hunt or forage a little there would be a plus but the main idea is to get away from the zombies until they die out. Its not living off the land, its digging into a hillside, pulling some logs over the top and living off your preps, preferably until after the next winter.

It would not be a sustainable lifestyle without a preps, but this is not an insurmountable problem because they would be the same preps a person should already have. The trick is getting them there, a problem I have mitigated by already living on the road that leads there and not having to pass through any region of higher population than the very low population area I already live.

Now. My second point was a reply to this



I am saying that this is not insurmountable problem, that you do not need and have never needed a homestead to survive indefinitely in the north western rocky mountains as long as you move with the seasons as there are lots of resources here but rarely in the same place at the same time.

Now, perhaps where I failed in my previous posts is to bring these concepts together.

I don't like to talk about what my 'plan' is because you know what they say about plans. 'A plan is just a list of things that didn't happen.'

But let's talk pacing.

For whatever reason, your bug in location in the foothills is compromised. You load up three pickups hauling trailers with all your preps. Hundreds of pounds off tools, thousands of pounds of food, water barrels, solar panels, batteries, generators, fuel, guns ammo, etc etc. All the stuff we already have. You drive as far up into the mountains as you can until your trucks get stuck, and then you move your stuff a mile further up. Build yourself a log bunker and dig in.

A YEAR OR TWO LATER when you're getting low on food and supplies, you come back down off the mountain. But hopefully all those thousands of starving people who made survival down in the foothills impossible before, are now all dead, and by moving with the seasons and resources you are now able to live a sustainable lifestyle in the region.

Or for that matter, re-claim or rebuild a homestead. Whatever. The point is if you can survive the dying time, there are no real problems to survival in this region of the country (once the population is reduced) and bugging out may be an important phase of survival even here.

This is a resource rich part of the world but you will not survive long term as either a backpacker or in a high mountain bunker but rather by living in different ways at different times as needed.

Hunter/gather has been a highly successful strategy for hundreds of thousands of years.

However, its usually, and rightful dismissed by preppers because most living of the land fantasies are set in the wrong location! The places hunter gatherers lived are not the modern day wilderness, for the most part they are the same places which are now our cities and farms, the places bug out preppers are trying to get away from. This does not mean hunter/gather is not a way to survive, it just means its not going to be a way to survive until AFTER SHTF has destroyed those cities and farms and high population you are getting away from in the first place. If the world is a sinking ship, prepping is not the shore, it's the lifeboat.

Or I may add, you probably won't make it as a homestead down in the valley during the dying either time unless your community is able to organize serious resistance and close off your area. Virtually any place worthy of modern agriculture is going to have too good of access and be too exposed to survive a mass exodus from the cities. (unless fortified the way farmers in the past always where)

Where I live there is no commercial agriculture in the valleys or the eastern benches. Even if I was part of a convoy, my chances of going east into the mountains would be slim, especially in spring, winter, or late fall. I live in what I think is too populated, but I live 8 miles from a town of 700, and I live fewer than 30 miles from the largest wilderness outside of Alaska. I've looked for places to survive in the back country, but no chance for that.

In around '95, we had a lot of snow followed by a thaw and hard rain, isolating this area. Main U.S. highways to Missoula, Boise, and Spokane were flooded by water and mud, so if there was a SHTF, there would probably be several preppers who had explosives who would blow a couple bridges and destroy canyon roads and the we wouldn't be overly concerned by refugees. If I lived in Montana, Wyoming, Utah, or Colorado, it would probably be a lot easier to bug out.
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