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Old 09-07-2019, 05:41 PM
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Question buggout possible in Rocky Mtns. area?



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I guess a person or family living in a city or general urban area could just move to another area, but as a resident in mountain country I don't see bugging out as a possibility. Winter or spring in the mountains would be a tough situation for an individual or family to survive. I've hiked some in the late spring or early fall, but have mostly hiked in the summer, but even that is dangerous. Bugs, especially ticks are especially bad in the spring. And if a person needed more food that what he carried, he'd be hard pressed to find game.

Could city-folk survive for weeks at a time in the mountains, even the Appalachians? Or is surviving in the east a lot easier than in the western wildernesses? Wilderness survival is possible for a not-too-lengthy stay, if it is summer. No matter what happens, I plan on staying where I am now.

Anyone live in the western mountains or desert who plans on bugging out when TSHTF?
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:58 PM
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Anyone live in the western mountains or desert who plans on bugging out when TSHTF?
That is my plan......
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:12 PM
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:40 PM
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Well, I think you know where I live...right in the middle of the rocky mtns.

I am a dedicated bug-in prepper as my location attests.

But I accept the possibility of bugging out. You never know what can happen.

And I think we have it easy. I don't have to worry about traffic or closed roads, I just have to head out as my backyard borders thousands of acres of wilderness to bug further up into. With a chainsaw and a rifle I think its pretty possible. You aren't going to survive long term with a backpack, but take a 4x4 as far up the old logging trails as you can, and then make enough trips to haul your tools, food, ammo, etc a mile or so further and I think it short order you could have a pretty stout log cabin you could over winter in.

The biggest problem is that there are tens of millions of other people in the country who will have the same idea.
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:49 PM
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Depending on what happens city people will not even be able to get from block to block and if they live outside of the city they wont even get to the freeways[TOLL ROADS} now.
Every night there are sevearl wrecks on Interstate 5 and traffic backs up for miles if TSHTF there will be so many wrecks and these malinial tec peoplethat work for micro soft and amazon and google will consault there cell phones for directions on what to do, now if its an emp they will be out of luck they will be asking homeless people what to do.IMOcities will be a grave yard, THEY are the ones who voted for the strictest gun laws in the nation, I bet they will wish they had 1 because all the gangs will still have theirs. IMO it wont be a place to be unarmed and hungry .
THEY will deserve what ever befalls them. If this sounds mean spirited, good it was meant to be.
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:11 PM
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Anyone could survive anywhere for weeks at a time.

It’s long term that becomes more problematic. Sure there are LIKELY quite a few pockets of sustainability* back east. Maine being more likely. The problem with most of Appalachia is surrounding population density.

*Sustainability, as @Airiendale mentioned I also mean packed in bulk tools and supplies. Think along the lines of the old Klondike gold rush folks, where a “ton” of goods were mandated. EACH.

With today’s technology, a skilled/knowledgeable family could likely get by with less start out weight - per person.

That’s why we really don’t understand the “head to the hills” type folks. Excellent for those whom know what they’re doing, and prepare accordingly. Starvation for everyone else.

Salt, sugar, grains tho still weigh what they do. No getting around that.

Cut downs in weight/bulk from technology. Either allowing for direct cut in weights, or allowing spares: -quickie thoughts here only-

Clothing.
Shelter (even simple tarps, over cotton duck wall tents of old).
Freeze dried goods over canned.
Metals technology, hardened tooling etc.
Firearms technology of today vs then.
Plastics. Think of simple sturdy 5 gallon buckets over sacks or a metal bucket of old. Easier man hauling, less weight, easier to mitigate vermin loss of goods (lid) etc etc.
Same with sturdy synthetic water bags.
Etc.
HOWEVER, some tech “of old” should be heralded. Cast iron cookware. Outhouse. Etc.

Won’t even get into stock skills and knowledge. As that'd be far and away beyond any common “head to the hills” mentality.

For this simple mental excursion, I’m just thinking on folk whom would be knowledgeable enough to set up a decent “elk camp” on foot. Using that as a base to setup more permanent shelter. Either at the camp directly, or nearby with the camp as a fallback.
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:49 PM
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BUg out does NOT mean go live in the woods.

I am a big out location for someone who is mine.
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Old 09-07-2019, 11:26 PM
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Folks might want to research folks who have run off and lived in the woods in the past.
Some of them were rather sucessful, some not.

While not a great first option, it is a last ditch option of mine.
https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...d.php?t=926402
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Well, I think you know where I live...right in the middle of the rocky mtns.

I am a dedicated bug-in prepper as my location attests.

But I accept the possibility of bugging out. You never know what can happen.

And I think we have it easy. I don't have to worry about traffic or closed roads, I just have to head out as my backyard borders thousands of acres of wilderness to bug further up into. With a chainsaw and a rifle I think its pretty possible. You aren't going to survive long term with a backpack, but take a 4x4 as far up the old logging trails as you can, and then make enough trips to haul your tools, food, ammo, etc a mile or so further and I think it short order you could have a pretty stout log cabin you could over winter in.

The biggest problem is that there are tens of millions of other people in the country who will have the same idea.


I'm just in the foothills of the northern Rockies, at under 3000 feet elevation, but surviving in spring and winter would mean making it in cold, both wet and dry snow, and general misery. And it would be easy to break a leg. I guess it would be better if in a group but if you had to take women and children along, it would be hard in my region. The 4x4 is a good idea if the roads are kept up, but I doubt the Forest Service, during TSHTF would be concerned with maintenance.

A few years ago a friend of mine with our wives looked in our region for places to survive and they ranged from high elevation small prairies to larger ones with a creek to ones in the woods and even one on the Snake River. That last one seemed ideal until we got near the river and encountered dozens of rattlesnakes on any road. I guess you could survive with two men in their 20's or 30's.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Camelfilter View Post
Anyone could survive anywhere for weeks at a time.

It’s long term that becomes more problematic. Sure there are LIKELY quite a few pockets of sustainability* back east. Maine being more likely. The problem with most of Appalachia is surrounding population density.

*Sustainability, as @Airiendale mentioned I also mean packed in bulk tools and supplies. Think along the lines of the old Klondike gold rush folks, where a “ton” of goods were mandated. EACH.

With today’s technology, a skilled/knowledgeable family could likely get by with less start out weight - per person.

That’s why we really don’t understand the “head to the hills” type folks. Excellent for those whom know what they’re doing, and prepare accordingly. Starvation for everyone else.

Salt, sugar, grains tho still weigh what they do. No getting around that.

Cut downs in weight/bulk from technology. Either allowing for direct cut in weights, or allowing spares: -quickie thoughts here only-

Clothing.
Shelter (even simple tarps, over cotton duck wall tents of old).
Freeze dried goods over canned.
Metals technology, hardened tooling etc.
Firearms technology of today vs then.
Plastics. Think of simple sturdy 5 gallon buckets over sacks or a metal bucket of old. Easier man hauling, less weight, easier to mitigate vermin loss of goods (lid) etc etc.
Same with sturdy synthetic water bags.
Etc.
HOWEVER, some tech “of old” should be heralded. Cast iron cookware. Outhouse. Etc.

Won’t even get into stock skills and knowledge. As that'd be far and away beyond any common “head to the hills” mentality.

For this simple mental excursion, I’m just thinking on folk whom would be knowledgeable enough to set up a decent “elk camp” on foot. Using that as a base to setup more permanent shelter. Either at the camp directly, or nearby with the camp as a fallback.

Nearly every hunting season in our area, we hear on the news about lost hunters and several die from hypothermia. Heading to the wilderness is fine as long as you can get there. Horses would probably be better than 4x4's getting there, but then the horses would have no feed. Several years ago as a member of a local sheriff posse and as not much of a horseman, I went with an experienced posse member as we looked for the body of a missing hunter. Even on roads we would have to go through many deadfalls. Rough going. Glad the horse knew his business! I was in my mid 40's.

One year on a boy scout trip with handcarts on a road near where Lewis and Clark were, we encountered a three-food long log across a road. Luckily no limbs but we spent a while cutting it in two places with a cross-cut saw. It wouldn't take a lot of big conifers across a road to stop any progress.

I used to backpack some in Washington's Cascade Range, and that would really be a chore to drive to a spot to set up living.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:36 AM
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A possible place to set up might be near a lookout tower. They are 40-some feet high and would give a place to scan for problems. And some have a sort of living quarters near by. Some take a 10-mile walk but others can be reached by a vehicle on passable to extremely rough roads. The living-sized towers have a large single bed. I slept in one of those beds last night and they are comfortable. It came from a 30-foot tower in Washington. Some have a spring within walking distance.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:19 AM
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Bugging out to a well stocked and equipped location? Sure.
Living off the land? No.

Historically, NDNs thrived in coastal areas due to abundant resources. They even had free time to develop art and culture. The interior of the continent was feast and famine. They worked their ass off in the warm season to survive the winter. I lived with Mountain Utes. They have a strong propensity for obesity. This is actually a survival mechanism allowing them to fatten up when food is abundant and survive when it's scarce.

Winter is 6 or more months long. One cannot survive winter in the Rockies without a large amount of stored food. There is little to no foraging in the cold season. Even in the warm season foraging isn't super abundant. What is available would be a huge dietary shift for most folks and cause them issues. Berries, roots, greens, seeds... There isn't much for "meaty" fruits and vegetables.

I've backpacked and camped in the winter. 24/7 cold wears you down. People who aren't accustomed to that would have a hard time coping. Heck, people who aren't used to that in the warm season would struggle.

We've grown weak as a species. People won't magically become capable of things they don't normally do just because there's a crisis.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
A possible place to set up might be near a lookout tower. They are 40-some feet high and would give a place to scan for problems. And some have a sort of living quarters near by. Some take a 10-mile walk but others can be reached by a vehicle on passable to extremely rough roads. The living-sized towers have a large single bed. I slept in one of those beds last night and they are comfortable. It came from a 30-foot tower in Washington. Some have a spring within walking distance.
I've considered that - my wife and I hiked up to one a couple weekends back. I think the possibility exists but it would really be dependent on the time of year and the availability of motorized transportation.

The other thing to think about is that those fire lookouts aren't insulated so you would need to consider for the long term how to insulate it.

The lookouts are an interesting possibility and I would need to consider how much work it would take to make it viable.

As for the statement "Everyone will run to the woods" - I don't think they will run as deep into the woods as these lookouts. People are lazy and the woods are freaked unnerving the further you go back into them.

SF
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:36 PM
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Depending on what happens city people will not even be able to get from block to block and if they live outside of the city they wont even get to the freeways[TOLL ROADS} now.
Every night there are sevearl wrecks on Interstate 5 and traffic backs up for miles if TSHTF there will be so many wrecks and these malinial tec peoplethat work for micro soft and amazon and google will consault there cell phones for directions on what to do, now if its an emp they will be out of luck they will be asking homeless people what to do.IMOcities will be a grave yard, THEY are the ones who voted for the strictest gun laws in the nation, I bet they will wish they had 1 because all the gangs will still have theirs. IMO it wont be a place to be unarmed and hungry .
THEY will deserve what ever befalls them. If this sounds mean spirited, good it was meant to be.
This is why anyone who lives in a city needs to know many alternative routes to get out of Dodge. Going for a drive on weekends is one way that can help people figure out that there is more than one option to the freeways and highways. If a person lives in a particular area, they learn the backroads and use them as needed.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:12 PM
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This is why anyone who lives in a city needs to know many alternative routes to get out of Dodge. Going for a drive on weekends is one way that can help people figure out that there is more than one option to the freeways and highways. If a person lives in a particular area, they learn the backroads and use them as needed.
The people who reside in some cities don't have that option. One road in and the same road out. Anchorage, Alaska a city of 345,000 people has only two roads, one exiting north and the only other exiting south.
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Old 09-08-2019, 02:55 PM
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but surviving in spring and winter would mean making it in cold, both wet and dry snow, and general misery.
This is why the first thing you do is start cutting down trees and throw up a little log cabin. With modern tools you can crank out one in just a few days. Pack it with months worth of food and all you have to worry about is keeping the fire going and look outs. And with a chainsaw and a few gallons of gas you can cut a lot of firewood in a couple days.

I doubt the roads would be kept up either but you can do a lot on with 4WD and chains even if nothing has been plowed.

Location specific of course, its pretty dry on my side of the mountains and snow deep enough to stop a 4x4 with chains, even up to 5k' feet is pretty rare.

Of course, add a snow machine to the back of your truck and you could get you and your stuff really far up in the winter. Make a few trips and you could move a lot of stuff up farther than 99% of other refugees could get.

But its always location specific isn't it? You talk about rattlesnakes but I've never seen one in my area.

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The people who reside in some cities don't have that option. One road in and the same road out. Anchorage, Alaska a city of 345,000 people has only two roads, one exiting north and the only other exiting south.
Ah, but they have the ocean, the ultimate bug out.

Quote:
As for the statement "Everyone will run to the woods" - I don't think they will run as deep into the woods as these lookouts. People are lazy and the woods are freaked unnerving the further you go back into them.
This is true now...when the cities are burning and everyone is starving I think they will find motivation they didn't know they had.

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We've grown weak as a species. People won't magically become capable of things they don't normally do just because there's a crisis.
Indeed. But it doesn't matter if people can't survive a winter in the mountains....the problem comes when 10,000 of them show up in your area trying to survive. Thats the time where it gets really hard for preppers.
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
A possible place to set up might be near a lookout tower. They are 40-some feet high and would give a place to scan for problems. And some have a sort of living quarters near by. Some take a 10-mile walk but others can be reached by a vehicle on passable to extremely rough roads. The living-sized towers have a large single bed. I slept in one of those beds last night and they are comfortable. It came from a 30-foot tower in Washington. Some have a spring within walking distance.
Many of those towers and their cabins are now abandoned, and many were torn down.

But there are cabins and shacks out there in the Nat’l forest, still. Some are located along high use trails, or up at places where FS employees have to hike or ride in and stay overnight to check on things.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:15 AM
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I've considered that - my wife and I hiked up to one a couple weekends back. I think the possibility exists but it would really be dependent on the time of year and the availability of motorized transportation.

The other thing to think about is that those fire lookouts aren't insulated so you would need to consider for the long term how to insulate it.

The lookouts are an interesting possibility and I would need to consider how much work it would take to make it viable.

As for the statement "Everyone will run to the woods" - I don't think they will run as deep into the woods as these lookouts. People are lazy and the woods are freaked unnerving the further you go back into them.

SF


A few years ago, my wife and I paid the $50 to spend a night in one. We drove to it. It was comfortable but that was summer and we had to bring water. Many years ago my 16-year old daughter and I spent 3 nights, only one night was fog free. It was free for us since my friend had free use from the FS for keeping it up. We had to hike from 500 feet to a bit under 6000. And we had to walk a quarter mile to a spring. My daughter insisted I take my .357.

Where I live it is hard hiking in summer since most trails become non-existent quickly. Not likely to see hordes of people being that I am 5 driving hours from an interstate.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:22 AM
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
This is why the first thing you do is start cutting down trees and throw up a little log cabin. With modern tools you can crank out one in just a few days. Pack it with months worth of food and all you have to worry about is keeping the fire going and look outs. And with a chainsaw and a few gallons of gas you can cut a lot of firewood in a couple days.

I doubt the roads would be kept up either but you can do a lot on with 4WD and chains even if nothing has been plowed.

Location specific of course, its pretty dry on my side of the mountains and snow deep enough to stop a 4x4 with chains, even up to 5k' feet is pretty rare.

Of course, add a snow machine to the back of your truck and you could get you and your stuff really far up in the winter. Make a few trips and you could move a lot of stuff up farther than 99% of other refugees could get.

But its always location specific isn't it? You talk about rattlesnakes but I've never seen one in my area.



Ah, but they have the ocean, the ultimate bug out.



This is true now...when the cities are burning and everyone is starving I think they will find motivation they didn't know they had.



Indeed. But it doesn't matter if people can't survive a winter in the mountains....the problem comes when 10,000 of them show up in your area trying to survive. Thats the time where it gets really hard for preppers.
As to bugging out on an ocean, you must not have spent a lot of time on Alaskan ocean. Even in summer the seas can be rough but in winter I can imagine how bad they'd be. I've been in PW Sound south of Anchorage, in the summer and the wind can be terrible. I've spent 30 years living on an island not on open water and many boats are lost every year.

One year my daughter and I hiked up the Selway River and camped on a rocky beach some 10 miles up from a campground. Daughter went for some wood and came back telling of a rattler. Hard to hit a moving head with a handgun but we felt we would sleep better in our tent if it was dead. Our area has many places where there are no roads. Much of the logging is called helicopter logging.

I doubt if there will be thousands of people come to our area, but of course they can get off the nearest interstate. One is only 3 hours away but that is through mountains.

A cabin may look nice on a western movie, but in real life you would need a way to chink the cracks. If you have a lot of time and help I suppose you could build a small one fast. I grew up in a log house but it was in a fairly populated place--5,000 people in the county. And we overlapped the sawed logs but it took a lot of wood to heat and the are got very little snow or winter cold.

Here you could take a 4X4 to areas close to civilization and a few good ones farther out but many are over 7000 to 8,000 feet which makes for cold winters. Looking at my topo maps, there are very few roads in the back country, so you'd have to hike. Precipitation levels are from 40 inches to 60--lots of snow and stays a long time.

But I live on the western slopes of the Bitterroots. My county borders Ravalli County, MT.
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